It was brought to my attention that perhaps my choice of title for my LAST THREAD was misleading. So I'm posting under the new title in hopes of garnering a few more eyes and responses.
Just to re-cap, this is my first attempt at creating a full class. Having a large amount of outside opinion would be of great help.
I still need to develop a capstone ability for the class... but before doing so wanted to make sure I had mostly finalized all the levels proceeding 20th.
There is room to move abilities around and/or remove/add abilities so the class will be closer balanced to PF classes.
As I'm not really adept enough with the BBcode tags, I'm unsure how to make a readable chart that includes BAB and Saves. Assume Monk BAB and Saves for the class.
In the following post is what I have for the class so far...
The first Barrier Adept began learning his abilities in a land full of hostile spirits. Undergoing fierce training of mind, body, and spirit the mystic slowly learned to tap the latent raw magic that surrounded him and gather and shape it through shear force of will. This warrior mystic used his newfound abilities to defend his people against these evil spirits and to destroy them. Over time, he trained others in his skills so they might continue his work. Barrier Adepts have since spread throughout the world seeking to use their abilities for as many reasons as there are barrier adepts.
Role - Barrier Adepts are prized for their skill with defensive barriers and as spirit hunters. They can function well as body guards or adventurers.
Alignment - Barrier Adepts can be of any alignment. Though, because of their training, Barrier Adepts tend towards lawful over chaotic alignments.
HD: d8
Class Skills - Acrobatics, Climb, Craft, Knowledge (all), Perception, Profession, Sense Motive, Spellcraft
Skill Points - 4 + INT mod.
1 Force Barrier , Barrier Destruct 1d6, Martial Training
2 Harden Barrier (Crystal 1)
3 Barrier Destruct 2d6
4 Bonus Feat
5 Barrier Destruct 3d6
6 Harden Barrier (Wood 5)
7 Barrier Destruct 4d6
8 Quicken Barrier
9 Barrier Destruct 5d6
10 Harden Barrier (Steel 10)
11 Barrier Destruct 6d6
12 Flash Barrier
13 Barrier Destruct 7d6
14 Harden Barrier (Mithral 15)
15 Barrier Destruct 8d6
16 Bonus Feat
17 Barrier Destruct 9d6
18 Harden Barrier (Adamantine 20)
19 Barrier Destruct 10d6
20 Barrier Master
Weapon and Armor Proficiency - Barrier Adepts gain proficiency with Simple weapons and Light armor and shields. (light shields and bucklers only.)
Force Barrier (Su) - A Barrier Adept has the ability to gather and store a pool of raw magical power for use in creating force barriers. This pool of raw magic is equal to (10 x Barrier Adept Level + Int. Mod.). A force barrier is a immobile barrier that appears made of visable iridesent force (looking much like a soap bubble). A Barrier Adept can create and mantain one or more force barriers (Max barriers equal to Int. Mod. with a minimum of 1) by using an amount of points from this pool. For example a 1st level Barrier Adept with a Int. score of 14 could create two force barriers by using 7 points each, one barrier using 14 points, or any combination equal to the total pool of availible points. Each force barrier has HP equal to the amount of invested points and a AC of 10 with a default hardness of 0.(With the consistancy of hardened gelatin.) The force barrier can take the form of a wall, sphere, half-sphere, or cube. At first level the force barrier a Barrier Adept can create is only large enough to surround one medium sized creature. As the Adept grows in power, the force barrier can surround a number of medium creatures equal to the Barrier Adept level of the Adept that created it. (For example, at 4th level a Barrier Adept could create a force barrier large enough to surround 4 medium creatures or 1 large creature.) Creating a force barrier takes a standard action and has a range of 25ft. + 5ft. per Barrier Adept level.
Barrier Destruct (Su) - A Barrier Adept can also use force barriers for offence. The Barrier Adept can attempt to capture an opponent or opponents in a sphere or cube shaped barrier; the creatures are allowed a Reflex Save with a DC equal to 10 + 1/2 the Barrier Adept's level + the Barrier Adept's Int. Mod. to avoid being captured in the barrier. The size or number of creatures a Barrier Adept can capture is dependent only on the size of the force barrier the adept is able to create. Once an creature is captured, thereafter at any time as a free action, a barrier adept can decide to cause the force barrier to self destruct in a explosion of raw magic. This explosion deals the listed Barrier Destruct damage for the Barrier Adept's level to any creatures trapped within that force barrier.
Martial Training - Barrier Adepts undergo rigorous physical training and learn how to fight unarmed in case they are unable to use thier abilities. The Barrier Adept gains the Improved Unarmed Strike feat.
Harden Barrier - At 2nd level a Barrier Adept starts to gain further control over the force barriers that are the classes trademark. Starting at 2nd level a Barrier Adept can apply the hardness of crystal to created force barriers giving them a hardness of 1. This ability improves every 4 Barrier Adept levels thereafter, giving the Barrier Adept a new material to have created force barriers mimic.
Martial Talent - At 4th level and again at 16th level a Barrier Adept gets a bonus feat. These feats represent further martial training and can be any combat feat that the Barrier Adept meets the prerequisites for.
Quicken Barrier - At 8th level a Barrier Adept begins to figure out how to create force barriers at a faster rate and can create a force barrier as a move action instead of a standard action.
Flash Barrier - At 12th level a Barrier Adept learns how to create a force barrier in response to a deadly threat. A barrier adept gains the ability to create a force barrier as a immediate action once per day.
Barrier Master - "Insert yet to be written text here."
Ok... I was thinking, to quicken a spell you need to prepare it in a slot 4 levels higher. The closest wall spell I can think of to the effect of a barrier would be Wall of Ice at 4th level. A quickened Wall of Ice would thus take up a 8th level spell slot. A primary caster such as a Wizard, could cast 8th level spells starting at 15th CL.
Thus, in deference to balance I think I'll move the "Flash Barrier" ability to level 16 and change the ability to allow use of the ability so many times per day equal to Int. Mod.
So if I make those changes I'd also move the bonus feat from the Martial talent ability to 12th.
The bonus feats are kinda nice... but if I could come up with some new abilities for 4th and 12th level that would be even better. Guess I need to go watch a few more episodes of Kekkaishi to see if I can stir up some more ideas for abilities.
However, if I make the changes I proposed it'll look like this...
1 Force Barrier , Barrier Destruct 1d6, Martial Training
2 Harden Barrier (Crystal 1)
3 Barrier Destruct 2d6
4 Bonus Feat
5 Barrier Destruct 3d6
6 Harden Barrier (Wood 5)
7 Barrier Destruct 4d6
8 Quicken Barrier
9 Barrier Destruct 5d6
10 Harden Barrier (Steel 10)
11 Barrier Destruct 6d6
12 Bonus Feat
13 Barrier Destruct 7d6
14 Harden Barrier (Mithral 15)
15 Barrier Destruct 8d6
16 Flash Barrier
17 Barrier Destruct 9d6
18 Harden Barrier (Adamantine 20)
19 Barrier Destruct 10d6
20 Barrier Master
Martial Talent - At 4th level and again at 12th level a Barrier Adept gets a bonus feat. These feats represent further martial training and can be any combat feat that the Barrier Adept meets the prerequisites for.
Flash Barrier - At 16th level a Barrier Adept learns how to create a force barrier in response to a deadly threat. A Barrier Adept gains the ability to create a force barrier as a immediate action a number of times per day equal to the Barrier Adepts Int. Mod.
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If anybody on the boards has watched the anime Kekkaishi I'd love to hear your impute on what you think would be some good abilities for this class.
I'd also like some help coming up with the beginnings of a capstone ability for the class.
Very interesting. If your inspiation is kekkashi, I sugest you add a very limited spell list. You should be able to cast force spells, teleportation spells, and other spells that manipulate space. Also I would add the personal " around the body" barrier, and some kind of spirit/demon/supernatural sense.
If I remember correctly, there are some other abilyts a kekkashi should have, like:
-Creating those paper servants. (maybe a variation from invisible servant and servant horde, but visible and with scalable strenght and skill)
-Using talismans and sealing.
-Repairing things and distortions in space.
-Dealing with spirits/creatures invisible to most mortals.
What is the method of recovery to those barrier points?
Can he make more than one barrier with a standart action?
shouldn't another atribute be responsible for the barrier strenght? (The kekkashi protagonist isn't exactly briliant but his barriers are the trongest)
I sugest that the creation of a barrier around a creature require a ranged touch attack that could be modifyed by inteligence or wisdom instead of dex(It seems to be a little hard to place it in the right position)
There should be a way of creating partial barriers. It has been shown in the manga some barriers that alow liquids to pass but not solids and the other way. And barriers fixed into moving objects instead of a place in space.
Very interesting. If your inspiation is kekkashi, I sugest you add a very limited spell list. You should be able to cast force spells, teleportation spells, and other spells that manipulate space. Also I would add the personal " around the body" barrier, and some kind of spirit/demon/supernatural sense.
If I remember correctly, there are some other abilyts a kekkashi should have, like:
-Creating those paper servants. (maybe a variation from invisible servant and servant horde, but visible and with scalable strenght and skill)
-Using talismans and sealing.
-Repairing things and distortions in space.
-Dealing with spirits/creatures invisible to most mortals.What is the method of recovery to those barrier points?
Can he make more than one barrier with a standart action?
shouldn't another atribute be responsible for the barrier strenght? (The kekkashi protagonist isn't exactly briliant but his barriers are the trongest)I sugest that the creation of a barrier around a creature require a ranged touch attack that could be modifyed by inteligence or wisdom instead of dex(It seems to be a little hard to place it in the right position)
There should be a way of creating partial barriers. It has been shown in the manga some barriers that alow liquids to pass but not solids and the other way. And barriers fixed into moving objects instead of a place in space.
Some good thoughts...
While I am using the anime as inspiration... I am not attempting to copy it outright as it could be very hard to put together everything as one package and get it "true" to the anime.
I'd originally considered giving the class a limited spell casting ability (at about the level of a bard) but was unsure exactly how to implement it balance-wise.
The main focus I've put on the class is the barrier ability. My intention, was that they could use the ability pretty much "at will" though with some limitations on how big the barrier is, how strong the barrier is, how many barriers can be maintained at time, etc... The "barrier hp pool" mechanic is designed to show how much raw magical energy the Barrier Adept can manage at any one time. They would automatically regain that energy as long as it is not currently being used in a barrier. Instead of INT I could swap to CON instead.
I don't want to make the class have issues with M.A.D. (Multiple Ability Dependency) so I feel I should pick one stat and stick with it.
Until they gain the "Quicken Barrier" ability they can only create one barrier per standard action. The "Quicken Barrier" ability allows them to potentially create two barriers in a single round using two move ations (and destruct them as two free actions).
Attack rolls to use the barrier might be feasible. Though in that case if I should use a save mechanic... hmm.
Good point about being able to effect spirits who might not currently be "manifest". Some examples of "spirits" in D&D might be Ghosts and Shadows. In the case of Ghosts, having the ability to see etheral creatures would be a great boon.
I'm honestly not sure how to allow for "partial barriers" I'll have to give that some thought. Although that does bring to mind the main protagonists use of a "sleeping barrier". Mobile barriers that just block sound, non-solid barriers that contain the effects of an alarm spell, barriers that protect vs. gas... these are all options that should be explored as they already have close counterparts in the 3.5 rule-set.
As I was basing the main ability off of wall spells/abilities I had originally thought of just keep them stationary. Working in how to make them mobile would be interesting.
another thought that came to mind: maybe you could add the int mod to the hardness of the barrier (or half of it) that would diffentiate more talented barrier users.
You might want to consider "Rapid" Barrier Making at 12th level, which allows you to make a barrier as a move action (or two barriers as a full round action). At 16th, Change it to Swift Action (or 3 barriers a round (swift/move/move)).
I would drop the armor proficiency and give some kind of personal barrier ability. Maybe drop the 4th level feat for the ability to optionally make the barrier burst or whatever cause non-lethal damage.
Hmm... allot for me to digest. Some quick thoughts though...
I don't want to drop the cube shape if I can help it. Even if I have to keep it as simple as saying "The Barrier Adept can create a cube or sphere just big enough to contain 1 medium creature or smaller". If I were to stick hard and fast to the anime... the main shape was only a cube or rectangular shape and did not really include spheres, half-spheres, or walls at all until much much later in the anime "think 20th or epic level". The flavor of the cube shape is sort of a nod towards the anime I really want to keep.
Were I to drop the dice type from d6's to d4's would that work for better balance?
Also... referring back to the anime, the most powerful characters could create many many many barriers, often at the same time and damage/destroy multiple targets at once. (Or create one single very very very large barrier.) I was sort of simplifying it a little by making it just one big barrier that could effect multiple opponents. Though, I could somewhat copy that mechanic if I used attack rolls to place the barriers, and used the monk "flurry of blows" attack progression for placing ranged touch attack barriers against multiple foes.
After 9th level... almost any Wizard can cast the 5th level Wall of Force that out do the Barrier Adepts barriers in durability or Walls of stone, ice, fire, iron, and so on that have a variety of hardnesses, durability, and variety of shapes. With scrolls or wands (options the Barrier Adept does not currently have) they could create any of a wide number of these effects and still be able to do fireballs, lightning bolts, and a HUGE assortment of other effects depending on what that Wizard may have prepared. At higher levels that Wizard can summon a Demon that can create Walls of Ice at will.
A Dragonfire Adept is kinda like the Warlock you mentioned and could produce either a line or cone breath attack that could deal the same damage per level as a Warlock dice for dice. This was a breath attack area of effect though and had the same saves, shape and/or area of coverage at higher levels as a Dragons Breath.
Tying the hardness of the barrier to the main creation stat is very doable. That does make a large amount of sense.
Though... I'm still trying to figure out what to do for the effects of a personal "body barrier". Do I want it to work like armor or give a flat ac bonus that raises as the Barrier Adept goes up in levels? For example...
Body Barrier- One of the first barrier techniques a Barrier Adept learns is how to protect oneself with a personal barrier. This barrier provides a +4 deflection bonus to the Barrier Adepts AC.
there should be some mechanic for pushing/throwing things with the formation of a barrier, like propeling oneself upwards creating a cubic barrier under the feet, and pushing foes creating it besides them (mostly like telekinesis.
there should be some mechanic for pushing/throwing things with the formation of a barrier, like propeling oneself upwards creating a cubic barrier under the feet, and pushing foes creating it besides them (mostly like telekinesis.
Something like ...
Barrier Snap- By controlling the elasticity of his barrier as he creates it next to or under a creature or object, a Barrier Adept can send the target flying. The Barrier Adept makes a special Bull Rush check vs. his targets CMD by using his INT mod. instead of his STR mod. The results otherwise function as a Bull Rush.
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What are the clases BAB and Save progressions you don't need to chart it, just say BAB full/meduim/slow, and will save: good etc.
Things I can't tell from the description, once formed can the force barriers be moved, if so does moving them take an action of some kind, or do they move inherently with the character etc.?
*SNIP*
As I'm not really adept enough with the BBcode tags, I'm unsure how to make a readable chart that includes BAB and Saves. Assume Monk BAB and Saves for the class. *SNIP*
To quote myself.... heh. :)
I kinda hid that at the end of my very first post. Should have included it in the actual class description. Something to keep in mind for any future revisions.
Ok... taking a step or two back. And hopefully a step forward. Now introducing daily barrier points and barrier tricks.
The first Barrier Adept began learning his abilities in a land full of hostile spirits. Undergoing fierce training of mind, body, and spirit the mystic slowly learned to tap the latent raw magic that surrounded him and gather and shape it through shear force of will. This warrior mystic used his newfound abilities to defend his people against these evil spirits and to destroy them. Over time, he trained others in his skills so they might continue his work. Barrier Adepts have since spread throughout the world seeking to use their abilities for as many reasons as there are barrier adepts.
Role - Barrier Adepts are prized for their skill with defensive barriers and as spirit hunters. They can function well as body guards or adventurers.
Alignment - Barrier Adepts can be of any alignment. Though, because of their training, Barrier Adepts tend towards lawful over chaotic alignments.
HD: d8
Class Skills - Acrobatics, Climb, Craft, Knowledge (all), Perception, Profession, Sense Motive, Spellcraft
Skill Points - 4 + INT mod.
1 Force Barrier , Barrier Destruct 1d4, Personal Barrier
2 Barrier Control
3 Barrier Destruct 2d4
4 Barrier Control
5 Barrier Destruct 3d4
6 Barrier Control
7 Barrier Destruct 4d4
8 Barrier Control
9 Barrier Destruct 5d4
10 Barrier Control
11 Barrier Destruct 6d4
12 Barrier Control
13 Barrier Destruct 7d4
14 Barrier Control
15 Barrier Destruct 8d4
16 Barrier Control
17 Barrier Destruct 9d4
18 Barrier Control
19 Barrier Destruct 10d4
20 Barrier Master
*A Barrier Adept gets a Monk's BAB and SAVES.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency - Barrier Adepts gain proficiency with Simple weapons. A Barrier Adept has no proficiency with armor.
Force Barrier (Su) - A Barrier Adept has the ability to gather and store a pool of raw magical power called barrier points for use in creating versatile barriers of force. This pool of barrier points is equal to (Barrier Adept Level x 5 + Int. Mod.) per day. A Barrier Adept can regain these points each day after 8 hours of rest. A force barrier is a immobile rectangular or cube shaped barrier made of visable iridesent force that allows for line of sight but not line of effect. A Barrier Adept can create and mantain one or more force barriers (Max barriers equal to Int. Mod. with a minimum of 1). Each force barrier is up to 5ft-diameter-per Barrier Adept level has HP equal to (3 x INT Mod.) and a AC of 10 with a hardness equal to his INT mod. Creating a force barrier uses one barrier point takes a attack action and has a range of 25ft. + 5ft. per Barrier Adept level. Once the force barrier is created however, the force barrier remains in effect as long as the Barrier Adept remains within a mile. Dismissing a barrier is a free action.
Barrier Destruct (Su) - A Barrier Adept can also use force barriers for offence. The Barrier Adept can attempt to capture a single opponent in a barrier by using a ranged touch attack. If this attack is successful the opponent is trapped within the barrier. The size of the force barrier the adept is able to create determines the size of the creature he can capture. Once an creature is captured, thereafter at any time on his turn as a free action, a barrier adept can decide to cause the force barrier to self destruct in a implosion of raw magic. This implosion deals the listed Barrier Destruct damage for the Barrier Adept's level to any creatures trapped within that force barrier. Both the barrier and implosion are force effects and thus have full effect on incorpreal opponents.
Personal Barrier- One of the first barrier techniques a Barrier Adept learns is how to create a barrier for personal defense. This barrier provides a +4 deflection bonus to the Barrier Adepts AC.
Barrier Trick- At 2nd level a Barrier Adept begins to learn how to exert more control over the barriers created with the Force Barrier ability, allowing the Adept to control the barrier's hardness and elasticity. A Barrier Adept can use this control for a number of tricks. Using a control trick normally takes one barrier point in addition to the normal cost for creating the force barrier. A Barrier Adept can apply any tricks they know to the barriers they create. The Adept can select one trick every time they gain this ability. The tricks a Barrier Adept can know are:
- Barrier Snap- By controlling the elasticity of his barrier as he creates it next to or under a creature or object, a Barrier Adept can send the target flying. The Barrier Adept makes a special Bull Rush check vs. his targets CMD by using his INT mod. instead of his STR mod. The results otherwise function as a Bull Rush.
- Air Bag- By creating a very elastic soft barrier beneath a falling creature or object, a Barrier Adept can break that creatures fall as per the spell Feather Fall.
- Sound Barrier- A barrier adept can create a barrier that blocks all sound. This barrier is usually created for sleep purposes. However it also contains any sounds created inside the force barrier.
- Alarm- A Barrier Adept can add the effects of a Alarm spell to the barrier they create.
- Permeable Barrier- A Barrier Adept can create a force barrier that allows certain substances to pass through it but remains solid to others or to create a barrier that has no physical substance.
- Harden- A barrier Adept can create a harder than normal barrier. Increase the Hardness of the force barrier by 5. This trick can only be applied once.
- Resilient- A force barrier using the resilient trick has more HP than normal. Increase the barriers HP by 5. This trick can be applied more than once.
- Stacking Barriers- By creating barriers one on top of another the Barrier Adept can merge them to create a tower of force. Creatures standing on these barriers as they are created can remain standing by making the appropriate acrobatics check or they fall off.
- Increase Damage-You can deal more damage with your barrier destruct. Deal an additional 50% damage with your barrier destruct ability. (This takes two barrier points and can only be applied once.)
- Opaque Barrier- A Barrier Adept can make the force barrier completely opaque so that it also blocks line of sight.
- Enlarge Barrier- A Barrier Adept with this trick can create larger than normal barriers. Double the size of the force barrier. (This trick requires 2 barrier points and can only be applied once. )
Barrier Master - "Insert yet to be written text here."
As you can see... I'm using a mechanic much like the Barbarians rage points.
I've got plenty of room for a ton of nifty barrier tricks to select from...
I've added a personal barrier.
I got ride of the martial training and martial skill.
I lowered the damage dice to d4's.
Barrier control is a good idea. I miss the spirit sense, the at will barrier points(counting just aganist barrier size and barriers done at once), and the d6 damage(I would raise it even more, since it requires at least 2 rounds to come to effect. mabe 1d6 or 1d8/1lvl)
The barrier push should give a 2 or 1/lvl bonus to jump checks when using it.
Do not be afraid to give power to the class, the classes are powerfull. A 20 lvl char can do +40 damage every hit, summon acid rain to destroy a city, make you die from sadness, ask for divine interventions...
Barrier control is a good idea. I miss the spirit sense, the at will barrier points(counting just aganist barrier size and barriers done at once), and the d6 damage(I would raise it even more, since it requires at least 2 rounds to come to effect. mabe 1d6 or 1d8/1lvl)
The barrier push should give a 2 or 1/lvl bonus to jump checks when using it.
Do not be afraid to give power to the class, the classes are powerfull. A 20 lvl char can do +40 damage every hit, summon acid rain to destroy a city, make you die from sadness, ask for divine interventions...
Ok...
Still working in abilities. I can add a Spirit Sense ability. Although... giving the ability to straight up see Etheral creatures is too powerful at first level. (one of those things we cannot keep true to the anime on for balance reasons) Perhaps I'll start with a bonus on perception checks, increase it to seeing invisible foes, and then etheral foes.
I'm also still working in the progression for a "barrier flurry" as it were. I'd need someone more skilled than I to put together the charts for BAB, Saves, Barrier Flurry BAB. Basically just copy and use the flurry of blows progression for a monk with the ranged attack actions to create your Barrier Destruct Force Barriers around your foes.
Once I add in the above mechanic... the class will be popping out barriers left and right. (And I do remember the characters getting tired from doing so) We can increase the amount of barrier points, but I want to keep things under control. Considering that at 20th level you can deal as much as 40+ points per Barrier Destruct with a Increase damage trick potentially 60 points per barrier destruct. I still have not addressed the issue of "nesting" the barriers which would allow you do deal insane damage to a single target. Potentially doubling, tripling, etc... for each barrier you nest on the same target.
I.E. 10d4 per nesting would allow for 20 or 30 or 40 or 50d4 against a single target before factoring in the increase damage trick.
I forgot to change the creation stat to constitution to represent the stress of internally channeling and controlling raw magic for barriers.
I'm thinking of perhaps getting rid of the increase damage trick, and instead just allow the "nesting" of barriers as a trick. Then limit that trick to INT Mod. on how many you can nest. (Which would make sense as the girl from the anime being more intelligent could nest more barriers.)
The first Barrier Adept began learning his abilities in a land full of hostile spirits. Undergoing fierce training of mind, body, and spirit the mystic slowly learned to tap the latent raw magic that surrounded him and gather and shape it through shear force of will. This warrior mystic used his newfound abilities to defend his people against these evil spirits and to destroy them. Over time, he trained others in his skills so they might continue his work. Barrier Adepts have since spread throughout the world seeking to use their abilities for as many reasons as there are barrier adepts.
Role - Barrier Adepts are prized for their skill with defensive barriers and as spirit hunters. They can function well as body guards or adventurers.
Alignment - Barrier Adepts can be of any alignment. Though, because of their training, Barrier Adepts tend towards lawful over chaotic alignments.
HD: d8
Class Skills - Acrobatics, Climb, Craft, Knowledge (all), Perception, Profession, Sense Motive, Spellcraft
Skill Points - 4 + INT mod.
1 Force Barrier , Barrier Destruct 1d4, Personal Barrier, Spirit Sense
2 Barrier Trick
3 Barrier Destruct 2d4
4 Barrier Trick
5 Barrier Destruct 3d4
6 Barrier Trick
7 Barrier Destruct 4d4
8 Barrier Trick , Spirit Sense (Invisible)
9 Barrier Destruct 5d4
10 Barrier Trick
11 Barrier Destruct 6d4
12 Barrier Trick
13 Barrier Destruct 7d4
14 Barrier Trick
15 Barrier Destruct 8d4
16 Barrier Trick , Spirit Sense (Etheral)
17 Barrier Destruct 9d4
18 Barrier Trick
19 Barrier Destruct 10d4
20 Barrier Master
*A Barrier Adept gets a Monk's BAB and SAVES. And flurry progression.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency - Barrier Adepts gain proficiency with Simple weapons. A Barrier Adept has no proficiency with armor.
Force Barrier (Su) - A Barrier Adept has the ability to gather and store a pool of raw magical power called barrier points for use in creating versatile barriers of force. This pool of energy is equal to (Barrier Adept Level x 5 + CON. Mod.) barrier points. A Barrier Adept can regain these points at a rate of 10 per hour. A force barrier is a immobile rectangular or cube shaped barrier made of visable iridesent force that allows for line of sight but not line of effect. A Barrier Adept can create and mantain one or more force barriers (Max barriers equal to Int. Mod. with a minimum of 1). Each force barrier is up to 5ft-diameter-per Barrier Adept level has HP equal to (3 x INT Mod.) and a AC of 10 with a hardness equal to his INT mod. Creating a force barrier uses one barrier point takes a attack action and has a range of 25ft. + 5ft. per Barrier Adept level. Once the force barrier is created however, the force barrier remains in effect as long as the Barrier Adept remains within a mile. Dismissing a barrier is a free action.
Barrier Destruct (Su) - A Barrier Adept can also use force barriers for offence. The Barrier Adept can attempt to capture a single opponent in a barrier by using a ranged touch attack. If this attack is successful the opponent is trapped within the barrier. The size of the force barrier the adept is able to create determines the size of the creature he can capture. Once an creature is captured, thereafter at any time on his turn as a free action, a barrier adept can decide to cause the force barrier to self destruct in a implosion of raw magic. This implosion deals the listed Barrier Destruct damage for the Barrier Adept's level to any creatures trapped within that force barrier. Both the barrier and implosion are force effects and thus have full effect on incorpreal opponents.
*Flurry of Barriers- A Barrier Adept may use the monks flurry of blows progression to make these Barrier Destruct force barrier attacks.
Personal Barrier - One of the first barrier techniques a Barrier Adept learns is how to create a barrier for personal defense. This barrier provides a (4 + 1/2 Barrier Adept level) deflection bonus to the Barrier Adepts AC.
Spirit Sense- A Barrier Adepts senses are highly sensitive and attuned to seeing the unseen. This manifests as a +4 bonus on perception checks at 1st level. At 8th level the barrier adept gains the ability to see invisible creatures. At 16th level this ability allows the Barrier Adept to see Etheral creatures.
Barrier Trick- At 2nd level a Barrier Adept begins to learn how to exert more control over the barriers created with the Force Barrier ability, allowing the Adept to control the barrier's hardness and elasticity. A Barrier Adept can use this control for a number of tricks. Using a control trick normally takes one barrier point in addition to the normal cost for creating the force barrier. A Barrier Adept can apply any tricks they know to the barriers they create. The Adept can select one trick every time they gain this ability. The tricks a Barrier Adept can know are:
- Barrier Snap- By controlling the elasticity of his barrier as he creates it next to or under a creature or object, a Barrier Adept can send the target flying. The Barrier Adept makes a special Bull Rush check vs. his targets CMD by using his INT mod. instead of his STR mod. The results otherwise function as a Bull Rush.
- Barrier Spring- By using a slight varient of the Barrier Snap trick, a Barrier Adept can use his force barrier to give the benfits of a jump spell to anyone willingly bouncing off the barrier.
- Air Bag- By creating a very elastic soft barrier beneath a falling creature or object, a Barrier Adept can break that creatures fall as per the spell Feather Fall.
- Sound Barrier- A barrier adept can create a barrier that blocks all sound. This barrier is usually created for sleep purposes. However it also contains any sounds created inside the force barrier.
- Alarm- A Barrier Adept can add the effects of a Alarm spell to the barrier they create.
- Permeable Barrier- A Barrier Adept can create a force barrier that allows certain substances to pass through it but remains solid to others or to create a barrier that has no physical substance.(A barrier with no substance would no longer block line of effect)
- Harden- A barrier Adept can create a harder than normal barrier. Increase the Hardness of the force barrier by 5. This trick can only be applied once.
- Resilient- A force barrier using the resilient trick has more HP than normal. Increase the barriers HP by 5. This trick can be applied more than once.
- Stacking Barriers- By creating barriers one on top of another the Barrier Adept can merge them to create a tower of force. Creatures standing on these barriers as they are created can remain standing by making the appropriate acrobatics check or they fall off.
- Opaque Barrier- A Barrier Adept can make the force barrier completely opaque so that it also blocks line of sight.
- Enlarge Barrier- A Barrier Adept with this trick can create larger than normal barriers. Double the size of the force barrier. (This trick requires 2 barrier points per application. )
- Nest Barriers- A Barrier Adept learns how to create multiple barriers within each other. The amount of force barriers a Barrier Adept can nest is equal the amount of barrier destruct dice they have. (2 at 3rd level for example)
- Mobile Barrier- A Barrier Adept using this trick can attach a barrier to a creature or object.(This requires 3 barrier points)
Barrier Master - "Insert yet to be written text here."
Alrighty, I've made a few more changes to include some suggestions. I think I'm getting a little closer to a finished product. I still need some suggestions on a capstone ability. If anyone can think of more barrier tricks that'd also be useful. Right now I've got barely more than the max amount of tricks the class can know.
- Made the change of the creation stat to CON.
- Added wording to include the possibility of a flurry.
- Changed to add nesting.
- Added a "Spirit Sense" ability.
- Changed the barrier point recovery rate.
- Added some barrier tricks
- Changed the wording of some barrier tricks
What are the clases BAB and Save progressions you don't need to chart it, just say BAB full/meduim/slow, and will save: good etc.
Things I can't tell from the description, once formed can the force barriers be moved, if so does moving them take an action of some kind, or do they move inherently with the character etc.?
Did you edit this? Somehow I missed the second half of your post. Sorry about that. As per the description the force barriers are "immobile". However, I've added a Barrier Trick that would allow a Barrier Adept to attach a barrier to a creature or object.
You might want to consider "Rapid" Barrier Making at 12th level, which allows you to make a barrier as a move action (or two barriers as a full round action). At 16th, Change it to Swift Action (or 3 barriers a round (swift/move/move)).
I would drop the armor proficiency and give some kind of personal barrier ability. Maybe drop the 4th level feat for the ability to optionally make the barrier burst or whatever cause non-lethal damage.
Does me adding the Monk "Flurry" progression for rapid barrier creation work?
Query -
Should I create "Advanced Barrier Tricks" and start them at about 10th level?
Are there any of the current barrier tricks that seem overly powerful compared to others?
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I'm guessing it's supposed to mean total length of the wall, and that at 1st level you create a 5ft long barrier and at 5th level you create a 25ft long barrier. Am i guessing correctly?
Actually re-reading it now you create rectangles or cubes only, so you don't create walls.
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Oh and since these are force barriers they block magic missle correct, so maybe the personal barrier ability should prevent magic missile if you spend a point? as a barrier trick?
EDIT: okay I gotcha, the spirit sense ability comes from the flavor of the class. Which is fine, but as a point if someone were to re-flavor the class it wouldn't make any sense. Basically as a world specific class it's fine, but as a generic class (which i feel the rest of the mechanics make for a strong potential for) that's the only ability that just seems out of place.
Suggestions
You may capture something in a cube from first level. Perhaps not medium creatures but you can still capture small creatures such as goblins, kobolds, halflings, gnomes, dogs, cats, dire rats...
Capturing a foe to use the Destruct Barrier ability is a attack action that requires a ranged touch attack. At first level you could create two barriers at -1/-1 on your attacks. Not huge...but nearly as effective as two magic missiles at first level except for the +1 less damage on each and the miss chance.
For the normal barrier ability perhaps I should keep it as a standard action as you are eventually creating much larger barriers than what you use for the Destruct Barrier attacks as each barrier can only capture a single enemy.
Once an creature is captured, thereafter at any time on his turn as a free action, a barrier adept can decide to cause the force barrier to self destruct in a implosion of raw magic.
I had meant for this to imply a choice. Once you have the creature captured they are effectively at the mercy of your ability. However... if you choose not to destruct the barrier they remain captured and have a chance of escape by smashing the barrier or some magic on their turn. If, once its your turn again, the enemy is still captured you can still choose to destroy the barrier or even to dismiss it... either one as a free action.
I don't think it should be a deflection bonus to armor class for personal barrier but rather a straight armor bonus, otherwise first level take armor proficiency and where a chain shirt and you have a AC of 18 + Dex mod, that only gets higher and higher. especially at higher levels where all you have to do is wear Bracers of Armor, have your +8 deflection mod (and aren't deflection mods the ones that stack, I'm not 100% sure?) a high dex, it can be the class that's impossible to hit.
A good point... however what if I change the wording to say that wearing armor interferes with the ability and causes it to not function. The point of the ability is for it to be a force effect and apply vs. incorpreal attacks.
Considering how easy it is to hit ranged touch ACs the barrier adept is really powerful with his capture ability, all he has to do is capture a creature and his allies can be ranged players, the trapped creature destroys the barrier to get out, then moves to close with someone, well, there goes its actions, every player takes a full attack on it, barrier adept recaptures it, rinse, repeat. Since the Adepts point regenerate hourly you litterally never waste party resources. I think it should go back to a save mechanic.
Another good point... what if I add some wording to the ability that says any damage dealt to barriers being maintained by the Barrier Adept also drain barrier points equal to any actual damage dealt to the barrier minus hardness?
Perhaps... get rid of the HP of the barriers and just leave them with a AC 10 and whatever hardness they have from the Barrier Adepts INT mod.
This way you represent energy constantly flowing from the Barrier Adept to instantly replace any part of the damaged barrier. The Barrier Adept needs to exert effort as it were to keep the barrier active in those cases.
Were a powerful enemy to cut or smash on a barrier long enough a Barrier Adept would then be drained completely of barrier points and unable to create any barriers until an hour had passed.
Don't forget about the spellcasting: crating shikigami,force spells, sealings, etc...
Don't forget about the spellcasting: crating shikigami,force spells, sealings, etc...
The shikigami IMO are honestly more like magic items. They are paper talisman that are activated by the Kekkaishi. To replicate this I guess I should add UMD to the class abilities.
What kind of force spells should/would I include that I could possibly copy by making a barrier trick?
What would work for a "sealing"? Perhaps more barrier tricks or advanced barrier tricks?
As for etc... teleportation magic is really only used by the very very powerful characters. That might be represented by PrC's or even multi-classing. The whole anime ninja jump and disapear trick... thats just a application of speed and stealth where they are moving really really fast.... and is not really a core ability of the Kekkaishi as I see it.
EDIT: On spellcasting in general... I'd rather not step on the actual spellcasters toes. Thus I've pretty much settled on the Barrier Tricks concept to allow for a variety of things the Barrier Adept can do.
The female and male main characters from the anime both had different approaches to the same ability. As well as different skills and strengths with their barrier powers.
My thought is to allow for a large amount of versatility in just the barrier power alone. Creative players could use barrier tricks to pull off some very interesting stunts. So much so... that depending on how the barrier trick system and barrier system finalize there may even be a cap on how many barrier points you can spend on each barrier before we are through. I may even need to change how many barrier points are available at any one time.
As it stands now... one stunt could be a Barrier Adept wants to be stealthy but still be able to interact with his environment... so he creates a force barrier and applies the permeable and sound barrier tricks. If he is going to be moving from location to location he could even add the mobile barrier trick. Taa-daa... one stealthy Barrier Adept. (For sound he makes anyway.)
If you really wanted say... a force sphere spell... perhaps we could create an advanced barrier trick that allows the Barrier Adept to collect force in a ball and throw it at a target dealing damage. How about invisibility... another barrier trick and anything within a barrier is invisible as the barrier bends light. Just need to imagine up and then balance various barrier tricks to the effects they mimic. Apply prereqs such as required Barrier Adept level... etc.
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You may capture something in a cube from first level. Perhaps not medium creatures but you can still capture small creatures such as goblins, kobolds, halflings, gnomes, dogs, cats, dire rats...
not by the description, it specifically doesn't mention being able to capture creatures until you get destruct barrier at second level.
a foe to use the Destruct Barrier ability is a attack action that requires a ranged touch attack. At first level you could create two barriers at -1/-1 on your attacks. Not huge...but nearly as effective as two magic missiles at first level except for the +1 less damage on each and the miss chance.
yeah but at first level you can't fire two magic missiles in a round :)
the normal barrier ability perhaps I should keep it as a standard action as you are eventually creating much larger barriers than what you use for the Destruct Barrier attacks as each barrier can only capture a single enemy.
ahh see that isn't clear, if I can create a barrier with a 20' daimeter at 4th level, how come it can't encompass 2-3 creatures if they would fit in the diameter.
Once an creature is captured, thereafter at any time on his turn as a free action, a barrier adept can decide to cause the force barrier to self destruct in a implosion of raw magic.I had meant for this to imply a choice. Once you have the creature captured they are effectively at the mercy of your ability. However... if you choose not to destruct the barrier they remain captured and have a chance of escape by smashing the barrier or some magic on their turn. If, once its your turn again, the enemy is still captured you can still choose to destroy the barrier or even to dismiss it... either one as a free action.
Yeah I got that part, admittedly it may have been one of the only things I got right from the get go lol.
A good point... however what if I change the wording to say that wearing armor interferes with the ability and causes it to not function. The point of the ability is for it to be a force effect and apply vs. incorpreal attacks.
I don't think it should be a deflection bonus to armor class for personal barrier but rather a straight armor bonus, otherwise first level take armor proficiency and where a chain shirt and you have a AC of 18 + Dex mod, that only gets higher and higher. especially at higher levels where all you have to do is wear Bracers of Armor, have your +8 deflection mod (and aren't deflection mods the ones that stack, I'm not 100% sure?) a high dex, it can be the class that's impossible to hit.
wouldn't it be easier to just make it an armor bonus and include a caveat in the ability description "this barrier functions against incorporeal creatures as though it had the ghost touch special ability."?
You may capture something in a cube from first level. Perhaps not medium creatures but you can still capture small creatures such as goblins, kobolds, halflings, gnomes, dogs, cats, dire rats...
not by the description, it specifically doesn't mention being able to capture creatures until you get destruct barrier at second level.
Not to offend... but why do you think this? Look closely at the chart. You'll see you get barrier destruct at 1st level. If you look closely at the barrier destruct description you'll see that nowhere does it say that you gain the ability at second level.
The only thing gained at second level at this point is a barrier trick.
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BecauseYou may capture something in a cube from first level. Perhaps not medium creatures but you can still capture small creatures such as goblins, kobolds, halflings, gnomes, dogs, cats, dire rats...
not by the description, it specifically doesn't mention being able to capture creatures until you get destruct barrier at second level.Not to offend... but why do you think this? Look closely at the chart. You'll see you get barrier destruct at 1st level. If you look closely at the barrier destruct description you'll see that nowhere does it say that you gain the ability at second level.
The only thing gained at second level at this point is a barrier trick.
Force Barrier (Su) - A Barrier Adept has the ability to gather and store a pool of raw magical power called barrier points for use in creating versatile barriers of force. This pool of energy is equal to (Barrier Adept Level x 5 + CON. Mod.) barrier points. A Barrier Adept can regain these points at a rate of 10 per hour. A force barrier is a immobile rectangular or cube shaped barrier made of visable iridesent force that allows for line of sight but not line of effect. A Barrier Adept can create and mantain one or more force barriers (Max barriers equal to Int. Mod. with a minimum of 1). Each force barrier is up to 5ft-diameter-per Barrier Adept level has HP equal to (3 x INT Mod.) and a AC of 10 with a hardness equal to his INT mod. Creating a force barrier uses one barrier point takes a attack action and has a range of 25ft. + 5ft. per Barrier Adept level. Once the force barrier is created however, the force barrier remains in effect as long as the Barrier Adept remains within a mile. Dismissing a barrier is a free action.Nowhere in that description does it say that you can create the force barrier around a creature. then you look at barrier destruct.
The Barrier Adept can attempt to capture a single opponent in a barrier by using a ranged touch attack
This is the first time anything in the class mentions being able to use this ability to capture a creature inside the barrier. Maybe you thought it was clear, but it isn't, the second statement makes the reader infer that you weren't able to do so with the first ability.
yeah but at first level you can't fire two magic missiles in a round :)
Heh... true... but they also don't have a miss chance. Its honestly as effective as a pair of daggers with no str mod. damage wise.
ahh see that isn't clear, if I can create a barrier with a 20' daimeter at 4th level, how come it can't encompass 2-3 creatures if they would fit in the diameter.
Something to work on I suppose. To clarify things perhaps I should fold the two abilities into one. As I have dropped the damage dice to d4's and made nesting a barrier trick that I can add an additional cost to... or reword I guess it does not really matter if I effect multiple targets or not.
wouldn't it be easier to just make it an armor bonus and include a caveat in the ability description "this barrier functions against incorporeal creatures as though it had the ghost touch special ability."?
I guess it would...
Though I just like the flavor of a deflection bonus. It works in more situations than a armor bonus... and applies to both flat-footed and touch ac. It also applies to CMD if I remember correctly. A all around good defensive option. By just making it a deflection bonus... I kinda roll both a monks wisdom bonus to ac... and unarmored ac bonus into one.
If the ability is too powerful ... we can tone down the bonus they get as they level up.
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How about this?
Force Barrier (Su) - A Barrier Adept has the ability to gather and store a pool of raw magical power called barrier points for use in creating versatile barriers of force. This pool of energy is equal to (Barrier Adept Level x 5)+ Con Mod. barrier points. A Barrier Adept can regain these points at a rate of 10 per hour. A force barrier is a immobile rectangular or cube shaped barrier made of visable iridesent force that allows for line of sight but not line of effect. A Barrier Adept can create and mantain one or more force barriers (Max barriers equal to Int. Mod. with a minimum of 1). Each force barrier is a cube large enough to occupy a 5 foot square with an AC of 10 with a hardness equal to his INT mod. If a creature occupies the space that a barrier will occupy it recieves a save as long as the space it occupies is adjacent to at least one edge of the barrier, this save is equal to 10+1/2 the barrier adepts class level + Int mod. Success means that the creature is moved to a space adjacent to its original position outside the barrier. Creating a force barrier uses one barrier point takes a standard action and has a range of 25ft. + 5ft. per Barrier Adept level. For each point a barrier adept spends beyond the first the barrier will occupy an additional 5ft space however the adept must make the barrier in the shape of a rectangle or a square the hight of the barrier increases proportionately to the length and width of the barrier created. Once the force barrier is created it lasts a number of rounds equal to the Barrier adepts class level plus his constitution modifier. A barrier adept may dismiss a barrier as a free action.
This provides creatures a save against capture if they are adjacent to a barrier wall, and allows the adept to create walls of force and the like between himself and his enemies from first level? Also since it has a duration it allows intelligent creatures to realize they can wait it out with a readied action preventing the destruct/archer cycle I was worried about. If he readies and the players ready then it goes back to initiative order obviously, especially nasty if the enemy can spend his time buffing himself from inside the cube.
some good stuff
Kinda funny... I think I may have answered your questions before I saw them in my latest reply.
Whoever said (sorry, iPhone interface is hard to use for this purpose) to remove the HP of the barrier and make it straight barrier point drain might be on to something for balance. I havent seen the anime, but I can imagine the scenario:
Hero throws up a barrier, pouring his/her energy into it.
Big monster starts to wail on it, causing the hero to strain from the blows (exaustion?)
Eventually the monster smashes through it, causing the hero to be drained (fatigued?)
time passes, the hero recovers enough to start using powers again (after battle point recovery)
That'd be me bro.
Glad you like the idea. I kinda felt it added balance and a cinematic feel...
I need to try and figure out what a good balance on barrier points would be though. With the mechanic in place you effectively have so many points usable per encounter that you'll burn through fairly quickly if you keep a bunch of barriers active.
Here is my math minor kicking in:
This pool of energy is equal to (Barrier Adept Level x 5 + CON. Mod.) barrier points.
did you mean
( level x 5) plus con
or level x (5 + con)
darn it... I tried to change it to be more clear... sigh. :)
(Adept Level x 5) + Con Mod.
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Whoever said (sorry, iPhone interface is hard to use for this purpose) to remove the HP of the barrier and make it straight barrier point drain might be on to something for balance. I havent seen the anime, but I can imagine the scenario:
Hero throws up a barrier, pouring his/her energy into it.
Big monster starts to wail on it, causing the hero to strain from the blows (exaustion?)
Eventually the monster smashes through it, causing the hero to be drained (fatigued?)
time passes, the hero recovers enough to start using powers again (after battle point recovery)That'd be me bro.
Glad you like the idea. I kinda felt it added balance and a cinematic feel...
I need to try and figure out what a good balance on barrier points would be though. With the mechanic in place you effectively have so many points usable per encounter that you'll burn through fairly quickly if you keep a bunch of barriers active.
Did you see my suggested alternative posted above? It doesn't use that idea which I admit is cool, but it does create a balance and makes the points more meaningful as you have to increase the points spent to capture larger creatures, also it clears up our little argument over the wording of the ability not being apparent that you can capture creatures, also it doesn't make it an autocapture unless you spend the point to increase it.
How about this?
Force Barrier (Su) - A Barrier Adept has the ability to gather and store a pool of raw magical power called barrier points for use in creating versatile barriers of force. This pool of energy is equal to (Barrier Adept Level x 5 + CON. Mod.) barrier points. A Barrier Adept can regain these points at a rate of 10 per hour. A force barrier is a immobile rectangular or cube shaped barrier made of visable iridesent force that allows for line of sight but not line of effect. A Barrier Adept can create and mantain one or more force barriers (Max barriers equal to Int. Mod. with a minimum of 1). Each force barrier is a cube large enough to occupy a 5 foot square with an AC of 10 with a hardness equal to his INT mod. If a creature occupies the space that a barrier will occupy it recieves a save as long as the space it occupies is adjacent to at least one edge of the barrier, this save is equal to 10+1/2 the barrier adepts class level + Int mod. Success means that the creature is moved to a space adjacent to its original position outside the barrier. Creating a force barrier uses one barrier point takes a standard action and has a range of 25ft. + 5ft. per Barrier Adept level. For each point a barrier adept spends beyond the first the barrier will occupy an additional 5ft space however the adept must make the barrier in the shape of a rectangle or a square. Once the force barrier is created it lasts a number of rounds equal to the Barrier adepts class level plus his constitution modifier. A barrier adept may dismiss a barrier as a free action.
This provides creatures a save against capture if they are adjacent to a barrier wall, and allows the adept to create walls of force and the like between himself and his enemies from first level? Also since it has a duration it allows intelligent creatures to realize they can wait it out with a readied action preventing the destruct/archer cycle I was worried about. If he readies and the players ready then it goes back to initiative order obviously,...
Hmm... interesting.
I guess we still have the problem with it being unclear on if you can destruct it or not though.
I guess we really need to roll the two abilities together unless we specifically define a Offensive and Defensive barrier as two different abilities.
The reflex save mechanic can be double edged the way you have it worded... as creatures not near the edge get no save at all. And could potentially be imploded upon with no save.
Greaaah... headache. :D
Did you see my suggested alternative posted above? It doesn't use that idea which I admit is cool, but it does create a balance and makes the points more meaningful as you have to increase the points spent to capture larger creatures, also it clears up our little argument over the wording of the ability not being apparent that you can capture creatures, also it doesn't make it an autocapture unless you spend the point to increase it.
I'm a little uncomfortable with any chance of "autocapture" at all. That just seems... though I hate to use the term... "broken". Putting that aside for a moment though...
Just by making the size of the barrier cost barrier points actually makes sense though. You would not want to expend more points than needed and would only make the barriers large enough to target single creatures or small groups of creatures. It gives the Barrier Adept something else that drains his reserves and makes him think tactically. If you have both that and the "damage to barrier drain" you'd not even need to worry about duration as the Barrier Adept would quickly run out of barrier points from have 3-4 critters beating on the barrier to get out as well as the cost of making that huge barrier to begin with.
As long as we make sure we cap the base size of the barrier (before possible barrier tricks) so you are not outdoing other area of effects at the same level it may work. Even if we allow for "autocapture" if we instead allow for a reflex save vs. the barrier implosion damage that would make me feel easier about it.
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Hmm... interesting.
I guess we still have the problem with it being unclear on if you can destruct it or not though.I guess we really need to roll the two abilities together unless we specifically define a Offensive and Defensive barrier as two different abilities.
The reflex save mechanic can be double edged the way you have it worded... as creatures not near the edge get no save at all. And could potentially be imploded upon with no save.
Greaaah... headache. :D
You can't destroy it until second level where you get Da da da daaaaa
Destruct Barrier: As an attack action a barrier adept can capture a creature with a specialized barrier harmonically attuned to shatter damaging the creature within, by spending a barrier point the adept makes a ranged attack roll, success means he captures a single creature within a barrier. This barrier immediately shatters dealing damage based on adept level, a barrier adept may spend an additional point however to maintain the barrier. Doing so means that the barrier lasts until the start of the adepts next turn. If the barrier adept chooses he may concentrate on the barrier extending it as long as desired or until destroyed, each round of concentration takes an additional barrier point. This barrier is different from the barriers the adept normally creates, it is the exact size of the creature it encapsulates locking the creature in place preventing all movement, creatures captured can only escape with a strength check equal to 10+adepts con modifier. However creatures outside of the barrier may destroy it as if it was any barrier the adept creates. If the barrier is destroyed before the duration expires it does not shatter, however a barrier adept may shatter it before it is destroyed as an immediate action. While inside this barrier the creature is protected from all physical harm, attacks made against the creature instead target the barrier.
What do you think, it makes it clear that destruct barriers are different from normal barriers, adds an additional use of a destruct barrier (basically a paralyze although you can't hurt a creature within the barrier.) and can be used as an attack action with your flurries so long as you have the points.
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Then you can create an advanced barrier trick that causes your normal barriers to shatter when destroyed dealing damage = to your destruct barriers damaging all within who fail a reflex save.
Also you could have an barrier trick that allows you to create shapes other than squares and rectangles with one additional angle (i.e. L shapes)and then an advance trick that allows you to create any shape imaginable as long as one edge of each 5 foot cube created touches another.
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Did you see my suggested alternative posted above? It doesn't use that idea which I admit is cool, but it does create a balance and makes the points more meaningful as you have to increase the points spent to capture larger creatures, also it clears up our little argument over the wording of the ability not being apparent that you can capture creatures, also it doesn't make it an autocapture unless you spend the point to increase it.I'm a little uncomfortable with any chance of "autocapture" at all. That just seems... though I hate to use the term... "broken". Putting that aside for a moment though...
Just by making the size of the barrier cost barrier points actually makes sense though. You would not want to expend more points than needed and would only make the barriers large enough to target single creatures or small groups of creatures. It gives the Barrier Adept something else that drains his reserves and makes him think tactically. If you have both that and the "damage to barrier drain" you'd not even need to worry about duration as the Barrier Adept would quickly run out of barrier points from have 3-4 critters beating on the barrier to get out as well as the cost of making that huge barrier to begin with.
As long as we make sure we cap the base size of the barrier (before possible barrier tricks) so you are not outdoing other area of effects at the same level it may work. Even if we allow for "autocapture" if we instead allow for a reflex save vs. the barrier implosion damage that would make me feel easier about it.
Well the thing is that if he creates a barrier large enough that the creature inside doesn't touch an edge, he's spent the points, I mean the smallest cube that could do that is 9 points for a medium sized creature (also you'll notice that I changed the destruct barrier so there wouldn't be an autocapture/implosion unless he spent however many points you charge for the suggested barrier trick), and the creature inside has all those spaces to move around in, buff etc. Also while it is an autocapture, its better than trying to adjudicate which square the creature is shunted to if (as a medium sized creature) he makes the save from the middle of a cube that occupies 25 squares.
Deep thought...thinking...thinking
1- Those both work, BUT, there is just something missing for me. It leaves something (that I'm having a hard time putting to words) to desire. It could be that I just made the mistake of listing the abilities separate in the first place, but the more I think about it the two abilities should all fall under one description as ONE ability for clarity. And should have from the start. (My bad)
2- It could just be because I've seen the anime and am drawing most of my inspiration from it... but the idea is that the main barrier ability should be able function both ways at once... and still be usable from the get-go at first level. (just like a Warlocks Eldritch Blast or a Dragonfire Adepts breath attack. That has been my intention all along.
3- I'm thinking that by using your idea about giving the size of the barrier a barrier point cost... as well as using the barrier drain from damage idea... we can come to a happy middle ground.
4- We can add in a mechanic to allow a barrier to shatter under damage. I'm thinking something along the lines of a special Barrier Adept level concentration type check or a single barrier draining a set number of barrier points based on the total barrier point pool (one forth for example) from damage.
I'm going to have to sit down in front of a old fashioned piece of paper and work some stuff out before sitting in front of the computer again. And before that... get some sleep.
Please feel free to post some more ideas... but my brain is fried for now. :D
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Deep thought...thinking...thinking
1- Those both work, BUT, there is just something missing for me. It leaves something (that I'm having a hard time putting to words) to desire. It could be that I just made the mistake of listing the abilities separate in the first place, but the more I think about it the two abilities should all fall under one description as ONE ability for clarity. And should have from the start. (My bad)
2- It could just be because I've seen the anime and am drawing most of my inspiration from it... but the idea is that the main barrier ability should be able function both ways at once... and still be usable from the get-go at first level. (just like a Warlocks Eldritch Blast or a Dragonfire Adepts breath attack. That has been my intention all along.
3- I'm thinking that by using your idea about giving the size of the barrier a barrier point cost... as well as using the barrier drain from damage idea... we can come to a happy middle ground.
4- We can add in a mechanic to allow a barrier to shatter under damage. I'm thinking something along the lines of a special Barrier Adept level concentration type check or a single barrier draining a set number of barrier points based on the total barrier point pool (one forth for example) from damage.
I'm going to have to sit down in front of a old fashioned piece of paper and work some stuff out before sitting in front of the computer again. And before that... get some sleep.
Please feel free to post some more ideas... but my brain is fried for now. :D
Yeah, see I'm building this from an "I don't watch anime point" and seeing this class more as a magic type class that manipulates force, which is why splitting the two abilities works. I see where you're coming from, but I just don't see a way to combine the two abilities effectively in a way that doesn't lead to abuse or really wonky rules confusion. Granted this is your class for a home game, I guess the only reason I'm even chiming in is I see the potential outside of where you're coming from and would honestly like to make it where I can drop it in my Golarion game.
Well the thing is that if he creates a barrier large enough that the creature inside doesn't touch an edge, he's spent the points, I mean the smallest cube that could do that is 9 points for a medium sized creature (also you'll notice that I changed the destruct barrier so there wouldn't be an autocapture/implosion unless he spent however many points you charge for the suggested barrier trick), and the creature inside has...
Did you see my suggested alternative posted above? It doesn't use that idea which I admit is cool, but it does create a balance and makes the points more meaningful as you have to increase the points spent to capture larger creatures, also it clears up our little argument over the wording of the ability not being apparent that you can capture creatures, also it doesn't make it an autocapture unless you spend the point to increase it.I'm a little uncomfortable with any chance of "autocapture" at all. That just seems... though I hate to use the term... "broken". Putting that aside for a moment though...
Just by making the size of the barrier cost barrier points actually makes sense though. You would not want to expend more points than needed and would only make the barriers large enough to target single creatures or small groups of creatures. It gives the Barrier Adept something else that drains his reserves and makes him think tactically. If you have both that and the "damage to barrier drain" you'd not even need to worry about duration as the Barrier Adept would quickly run out of barrier points from have 3-4 critters beating on the barrier to get out as well as the cost of making that huge barrier to begin with.
As long as we make sure we cap the base size of the barrier (before possible barrier tricks) so you are not outdoing other area of effects at the same level it may work. Even if we allow for "autocapture" if we instead allow for a reflex save vs. the barrier implosion damage that would make me feel easier about it.
Quick response then I'm gone till tomorrow. After a little thought I think I'll be ok with a "autocapture" as long as the damage is not automatic. Just need to treat it like a area of effect and allow them to save vs. half. Could be reflex... could be a will save or con save... just as long as there is a save vs. the damage.
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Quick response then I'm gone till tomorrow. After a little thought I think I'll be ok with a "autocapture" as long as the damage is not automatic. Just need to treat it like a area of effect and allow them to save vs. half. Could be reflex... could be a will save or con save... just as long as there is a save vs. the damage.
Ha! funnily enough you'll notice I already suggested that as a barrier trick in a very tiny post above
Then you can create an advanced barrier trick that causes your normal barriers to shatter when destroyed dealing damage = to your destruct barriers damaging all within who fail a reflex save.
I guess you could just make it part of the basic function of the barrier starting at second level allowing a reflex save for half. I just really liked the idea of a ranged attack barrier as well, that's why I tried to make a destruct barrier that functioned that way and could be used in a flurry.