Ok,
So, I'm converting my game over to Pathfinder, and I have a Woodling Catfolk who plays a Druid. So far, the conversion is going ok. She used several of the alternate druid builds from the splatbooks, but is happy with the change so far. She's still using the Animal Shape alternate ability rather than Wild Shape (she still thinks it's too much effort to look through the MM's or Bestiary (when it comes out) to pick out animals. She prefers the 'I'm a cat, I'm an eagle, blah blah based on level'. Then everything is written out for her. She's taking the Nature Bond cleric domain instead of animal companion.
So, since everything else is fine, and she likes her new skill set, the only thing I'm iffy on is the Woodling Template. In 3.5 she could buy it down a little starting at 9th level. But now, she can't under Pathfinder. While it's a really really good template for her, it's not going to be as useful at 18th level as 3 levels would be. What I'm doing now is applying 3 Negative levels to her.
I'm thinking of basically letting her regain a Negative Level when she reaches 12th level (9th + 3 negative levels). To do it, I'll let her go up to tenth level with 2 negative levels half-way between 12th and 13th. Then do the same again at the levels suggestion in the Unearthed Arcana (17th and 19th).
So, my questions.
A) Does the approach above seem reasonable? It treats it similarly to the 3.5 but within the PF rules.
B) As an adjunct to that, since Woodling is a template that changes your type, I've been modifying her animal form based on it. So, when she changes to a panther, she's a moss covered panther with wood body. When she changes to an eagle, her feathers look like palm fronds. My idea on this is that a Template changes the base creature (if you apply it to a shapeshifter, the shapeshifter get's it in all forms). The way the woodling is presented, it seems more like it would override the animal form power she has as well (which is not Polymorph). This seems reasonable to me as she is losing levels now, and by the time she isn't losing levels for the template, it won't really be all that unbalancing.
C) How would you handle Templates and Polymorph? I could see some templates being overriden by Polymorph (Like Draconic), but others (like Shadowed) not. Another good example would be a Lich casting polymorph. I don't think he would appear as a living animal, I think he'd appear as an undead animal. I'm not sure if WoTC had anything in their FAQ on it, but even if they did, polymorph has been so modified and so nerfed, I'm not sure any WoTC FAQ on the spell would be valid at all anymore.
But now, she can't under Pathfinder.Why not?
Is there a rule for that somewhere?
Pathfinder did away with ECL (Effective Character Level), so all the rules regarding it are not really going to work under PF. Granted, I don't have the bestiary yet, so for now we are using the MM's as is. But James & Jason have said ECL doesn't exist anymore, there is supposed to be a bit in the Bestiary about non-core races. So, until I get that, I don't know exactly what Paizo is doing, other than not using ECL (and thus, not using UA buyoffs).
But now, she can't under Pathfinder.Why not?
Is there a rule for that somewhere?
Yeah, I'm with Fray on this one. Pathfinder suggested not using LA at all, but our group is still running with them. In fact, since 3.PF is basically the same system as 3.5 and 3.0, you can run it without any problems that didn't exist before. The only *real* issue with level buy off is that the XP charts don't flow the same way as before. You'll need to recalculate the XP required to buy off a level.
Also note that XP doesn't accumulate the same anymore, either. XP was removed as a "cost" from the game because it works a bit differently now. You gain the same experience for killing a CR 20 monster no matter what level you are. This means that "catching up" doesn't really happen anymore.
Just some food for thought.
But now, she can't under Pathfinder.Why not?
Is there a rule for that somewhere?Yeah, I'm with Fray on this one. Pathfinder suggested not using LA at all, but our group is still running with them. In fact, since 3.PF is basically the same system as 3.5 and 3.0, you can run it without any problems that didn't exist before. The only *real* issue with level buy off is that the XP charts don't flow the same way as before. You'll need to recalculate the XP required to buy off a level.
Also note that XP doesn't accumulate the same anymore, either. XP was removed as a "cost" from the game because it works a bit differently now. You gain the same experience for killing a CR 20 monster no matter what level you are. This means that "catching up" doesn't really happen anymore.
Just some food for thought.
Yep, I agree, which is again why I am not sure I should use it as 3.5 did. The recalculating of XP would be a nightmare.
As to not accumulating anymore and not allowing 'catching up', that's not quite true. It is in the absolute XP sense, but not in the level sense. Because of the way the levels work, even if someone is 50,000 experience behind, once you get up in the higher levels, everyone is the same level, with perhaps a game or two between the leaders leveling and the trailers leveling.
EDIT : Actually, it's not the recalculating, that wouldn't be too hard based on percentages. The issue would be that under the new system, buying off a level the same way at 12th, 15th, and 19th level would be a major detriment and put them a level or two behind, even with the new XP methods (as talked about above). It's the size of the XP band at 19th that worries me. I think I'd rather just cram the regained level half-way between levels where they come off at.
I just looked at the template and all I can say is WOW. That's got to be the only +3 LA template in the entire 3.5 game that was actually worth it (to non-casters of course, the lost caster levels would really blow to a caster) of course it is 'slightly' weaker in PF since plants are nolonger immune to crits/sneak attack.
Actually, Woodlings were never immune. They only get a subset of the plant traits, and immunity to sneak attack and crits were not on the list.
Anyways, here's a suggestion MDT, take it with a grain of salt if you will.Since the player already had a level adjustment, this part right here should be fairly easy. Turn those level adjustments, into racial hit dice, that grant one stacking level towards druid or ranger casting. If the base creature is humanoid, that means they are getting 3d8+3*con hp, 5+int skills (I think lol, been a while), and 2 BAB (3/4 progression) for those hit dice.
The lost BAB and reduced hp hurts a Ranger, the lost caster levels hurts a Druid. Both benefit quite a bit from the Natural Armor, resistances and such.
Anyways, that's my take, hope it helps.
Yeah, that was another option, turning the template into levels. My wife made up for the lost levels (to some extent) by taking the practiced spellcaster feat. Didn't help make up spells, but caster level at least was helped. Only thing is, if I add in hit dice and skills and such, I'd almost have to make it 4 levels to balance that out.