I've always been interested in inevitables. And considering we can't stick with the Modrons anymore, they make a good substitute. So my question is, do you plan on producing more inevitables in future Pathfinder products? Are there any new ones made currently? Will we be seeing any in future bestiaries?
I think D&D provided 6 total (the 3 from the MM, the two from Fiend Folio, and one in Sandstorm) and was hoping to see more from them before they sliced 3.5E clean away. So I hope the folks at Pathfinder can take up the reins this time?
Well they aren't quite the modrons' replacements, since they aren't actual outsiders (that's what the axiomites are for, and potentially formians as well). But since they're the construct servitors and unquestioning armies of the axiomites, it makes sense to me that there would be a larger variety of inevitables, each specialized for different tasks.
The basic flavor for some of them might need to be looked at as well since the original 3e inevitables were somewhat developed in a vacuum without reference to any LN outsiders they served, or were created by (since the modrons were apparently cut for space in the 3e MM).
But of course, this isn't my call here. :)
I've always been interested in inevitables. And considering we can't stick with the Modrons anymore, they make a good substitute. So my question is, do you plan on producing more inevitables in future Pathfinder products? Are there any new ones made currently? Will we be seeing any in future bestiaries?
Absolutely! I'm a fan of the Lawful Neutral alignment as a philosophy, a plane, and a race. While there's a bit about inevitables in Great Beyond and one in The Final Wish, expect even more in Bestiary II - a good bit being totally new stuff - which is really turning in to a very planar heavy book.
Creative Director
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I've always been interested in inevitables. And considering we can't stick with the Modrons anymore, they make a good substitute. So my question is, do you plan on producing more inevitables in future Pathfinder products? Are there any new ones made currently? Will we be seeing any in future bestiaries?
I think D&D provided 6 total (the 3 from the MM, the two from Fiend Folio, and one in Sandstorm) and was hoping to see more from them before they sliced 3.5E clean away. So I hope the folks at Pathfinder can take up the reins this time?
Yes, we'll be doing more with inevitables eventually. Nothing we're yet ready to talk about though.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Well they aren't quite the modrons' replacements, since they aren't actual outsiders (that's what the axiomites are for, and potentially formians as well).
What, if anything, has replaced the modrons in the Pathfinder cosmology? Just curious.
I also like the Inevitables and think they are a great fit for lawful neutral. I've got a soft spot for modrons (almost entirely because of the Planescape art), but at the end of the day, they were pretty silly. That being said, the Dragon magazine article with modron stats was 2,312 flavors of awesome.
What, if anything, has replaced the modrons in the Pathfinder cosmology? Just curious.
Inevitables, and maybe formians down the line here.
Just as with beholders and mind flayers we've grieved for modrons, but we've moved on. It's true modrons were great, but that's largely because of the hit between classic D&D design, awesome 2nd ed Planescape elements, and DiTerlizzi's incredible art. Since we don't have direct access to any of that magic, I'm not interested in trying to create a modron clone that's just going to feel like a less cool "me too" race. Don't worry, though. We've got plenty of other new and cool races coming down the line.
What, if anything, has replaced the modrons in the Pathfinder cosmology? Just curious.
As the LN exemplars? Axiomites. As a clockwork-esque species that marches around enforcing abstract Law? Inevitables.
The axiomites are as much the thematic children of Planescape's moignos and Stargate's replicators as they are the modrons.
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If we're just open to throwing out ideas (I like formians, btw), why do the LN paragons have to be mechanical-like, automaton-like C3POs?!
Lawful Neutral doesn't mean robot-minded!
For those who love the Inevitables, Modrons and other mechanical-like outsiders, can't a LN paragon race create those instead of "The abstraction of the Plane" manifest them?
This way, for those who enjoy the robot-people, they've got the Inevitables. For those who don't like that kind of "sci-fi" / mechanical stuff, they've got a race of outsider-gnome-like creators: effigy masters and such.
-W. E. Ray
Yes, but the real question is...will we get cool minis of all these new critters from the Reaper deal?
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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What, if anything, has replaced the modrons in the Pathfinder cosmology? Just curious.Inevitables, and maybe formians down the line here.
Just as with beholders and mind flayers we've grieved for modrons, but we've moved on. It's true modrons were great, but that's largely because of the hit between classic D&D design, awesome 2nd ed Planescape elements, and DiTerlizzi's incredible art. Since we don't have direct access to any of that magic, I'm not interested in trying to create a modron clone that's just going to feel like a less cool "me too" race. Don't worry, though. We've got plenty of other new and cool races coming down the line.
Sorry, I was unclear. I didn't mean to suggest that you should try to bring modrons in - I realize you can't. I was just curious what you were putting in their place.
I've never been a fan of formians - I'd much rather stick with the clockwork/golem theme of the inevitables/modrons.
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Creative Director
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If we're just open to throwing out ideas (I like formians, btw), why do the LN paragons have to be mechanical-like, automaton-like C3POs?!
Because of the game's traditions. LN exemplars have been robot or construct-like for a LONG time, ever since the modrons first marched onto the scene in 1st edition's MM2 back in 1982. Inevitables becoming another LN race wasn't something that happened until 3rd edition (and even then not in the original 3.0 Monster Manual), but they do the job quite well and are open content to boot!
We've got plans for the formians, and they're actually pretty cool plans that involve putting them primarily somewhere OTHER than Axis (although there are certainly some there anyway). We're doing a simliar thing with kytons... moving them out of Hell to somewhere else but keeping a kyton presence in Hell anyway.
For those who love the Inevitables, Modrons and other mechanical-like outsiders, can't a LN paragon race create those instead of "The abstraction of the Plane" manifest them?
But that's exactly what Paizo said. It's described on a sidebar on p. 57 of The Great Beyond. The inevitables are a created race.
Or am I misunderstanding your question?
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I haven't gotten The Great Beyond. That's why I missed that.
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No problem, James, with keeping the robot-like folks in the game, but as I recall, the original modrons weren't manifested from Nirvana even though they were from there. That kind of fluff just wasn't written back then.
And later in 2E the Great Modron March seemed to me to be something someone in Mechanus started -- a non-modron Power "created" them and sent them out to gather info. And then later Tenebrus used them. So there is history of Powers "creating" or "using" the robot-like creatures.
It seems that the Powers behind the modrons / inevitables, etc. don't disappear until 3E when the Inevitables just appear in Mechanus from the gears and assembly lines of the Plane, preset with instructions and programming.
Just to reemphasize, though, I was just throwing out an idea that may make that part of the Golarion cosmology a little more open to all gamers, even those who don't like robot-like stuff and wan't more "standard" swords & sorcery in their LN Plane. It's no biggie.
-W. E. Ray
If we're just open to throwing out ideas (I like formians, btw), why do the LN paragons have to be mechanical-like, automaton-like C3POs?!
Seoni is LN; why can't the paragons of Law look more like her? ;-)
Seoni is LN; why can't the paragons of Law look more like her? ;-)
If they did, chaos would be doomed.
I will sell all my organs and give you the proceeds if the formians just friggin' go away.
Inevitables, and maybe formians down the line here.
Same here, but with dwarves!
If they did, chaos would be doomed.
Seoni is LN; why can't the paragons of Law look more like her? ;-)
We do have Merisiel!
I haven't gotten The Great Beyond. That's why I missed that.
Fair enough. You sounded so on top of the topic that I just assumed that you'd read the book. :)
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I may consider getting The Great Beyond eventually but right now I'm very happy with my Homebrew cosmology (and don't want to add).
Actually, it's not that I'm against adding -- I add to my Homebrew everytime something's published that I like -- it's just that it seems that when some fluff is published that is already well-developped in my Homebrew (Libris Mortis), I really don't like it (cuz it's so different, non-compatable).
And I have a handle on my cosmology that I really like.
Still, it is Paizo Publishing so...
-W. E. Ray
It seems Todd is the only one giving Axiomites love, this is very very sad!
Axiomites are great, and too me, the guts of Axis.
I really, really hope they are in Bestiary II!
Ah, good news. Can't wait to see Bestiary II, indeed.
I dunno, it'd be nice if some WotC gave permission for some creatures they don't ever plan on using again. I mean, they did give permission for the creatures in the 1st Tome of Horrors (and ended up having a number of those creatures updated in their own books) so I don't see why they couldn't "permit" use of modrons, yugoloths, or other classic creatures that don't plan on seeing the light most likely due to them being created with old edition designs in mind.
Or is the 4E GSL (or whatever legal issues is stopping the ease of granting permission) that strict now (along with bad economic times and the need to make a dollar) that even a "permission granted" is beyond high hopes from them?
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Ah, good news. Can't wait to see Bestiary II, indeed.
I dunno, it'd be nice if some WotC gave permission for some creatures they don't ever plan on using again. I mean, they did give permission for the creatures in the 1st Tome of Horrors (and ended up having a number of those creatures updated in their own books) so I don't see why they couldn't "permit" use of modrons, yugoloths, or other classic creatures that don't plan on seeing the light most likely due to them being created with old edition designs in mind.
Or is the 4E GSL (or whatever legal issues is stopping the ease of granting permission) that strict now (along with bad economic times and the need to make a dollar) that even a "permission granted" is beyond high hopes from them?
The Tome of Horrors deal came about back when the people in charge at Wotc were far more enthusiastic about open gaming than the current crew.
It seems Todd is the only one giving Axiomites love, this is very very sad!
Axiomites are great, and too me, the guts of Axis.
I really, really hope they are in Bestiary II!
I hear you brother. I hadn't seen this thread when talk of the Inevitables came up in the "Curious about new monsters..." thread, and posted there instead.
Anyway, I've already posted there, but I'd prefer more work on the Axiomites as the LN iconic race, than expanding the Inevitables. But I'll certainly w/hold judgment until I've seen what Paizo does w/ the constructs.
I actually like axiomites more than modrons now, and I intend to use them both. The change of inevitables is for the better too.
Yeah, but I miss the hierarchy and variety of the modron race. I like the concept of Axiomites, but it's been simplified to just one type of them. Unless more types of Axiomites are being planned.
Ya know what WotC never did, they never did a "Half-Axiomatic" and "Half-Anarchic" template. I'd like to see that in Bestiary II, if possible.
I actually like axiomites more than modrons now, and I intend to use them both. The change of inevitables is for the better too.Yeah, but I miss the hierarchy and variety of the modron race. I like the concept of Axiomites, but it's been simplified to just one type of them. Unless more types of Axiomites are being planned.
I can easily see the basic axiomite types advancing into more elaborate forms (especially once you get into those axiomites that make up the three groups that collectively merge into the Godmind). Would be cool see them explored more.
I can easily see the basic axiomite types advancing into more elaborate forms (especially once you get into those axiomites that make up the three groups that collectively merge into the Godmind). Would be cool see them explored more.I actually like axiomites more than modrons now, and I intend to use them both. The change of inevitables is for the better too.Yeah, but I miss the hierarchy and variety of the modron race. I like the concept of Axiomites, but it's been simplified to just one type of them. Unless more types of Axiomites are being planned.
Here! Here!