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BIG question to you guys. What do you think about the Iron Heroes classes being used with Pathfinder.
These classes felt overpowered when compared to the old 3.x classes. But they seem to fit pretty darn close to the Pathfinder classes, IMHO.
Obviously there would be adjustments, but pretty minor stuff I think.
What do you guys think? Power level still too high, too low, about right?
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BIG question to you guys. What do you think about the Iron Heroes classes being used with Pathfinder.
These classes felt overpowered when compared to the old 3.x classes. But they seem to fit pretty darn close to the Pathfinder classes, IMHO.
Obviously there would be adjustments, but pretty minor stuff I think.
What do you guys think? Power level still too high, too low, about right?
I think they felt overpowered for 3.5 because they are designed for a low magic enivronment. So if you ported in Iron heroes characters to a 3.5 campaign and they started accessing all the magic then they were just over the top.
The skill groups in Iron Heroes might not mesh well with Pathfinder but I think the advanced feat mastery stuff and class abilities could work really well though. So if you keep the focus on martial types then the power levels should be just right.
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I was thinking of ditching their skills, feats and spells (and thus the arcanist class).
I was thinking specifically of using the Archer, Harrier and Thief. Though the other classes might make for good additions as well.
See, I wanted to make some NPCs using these classes to throw off the PCs. I also hope to use the classes from Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed (and whatever book it developed into later). But I want them to feel about the same level of power.
Though I MIGHT take SOME of the Feats (IH has some really awesome feats) and modify them to fit into the PF system.
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I was thinking of ditching their skills, feats and spells (and thus the arcanist class).
Sounds good. Classes like the Executioner or the Man at Arms can fit in quite well I think.
I think using the feat mastery stuff would fit in quite easily (and might be the way to go if you wanted to open up the fighter only feats that are currently in Pathfinder).
Man At Arms would be an amazing fit in my humble opinion. I'm really hoping to see something along those lines hit official pathfinder.
I didn't get much chance to look into iron heroes...I own the book, but could never get anyone to play (wierd, cuz whenever we play D&D I can't get anyone to play a spell caster...) so I just threw it up on the shelf and kinda forgot about it.
The feat mastery ruelset I think would be a good addition to pathfinder. As would the magic system from arcana evolved (what unearthed eventualy turned into).
Classes from AE were designed to be compatable with 3.5 acording to Monte, and I think in one of his Ptolus campaigns he had a magister and wizard in the same group. I think the AE classes are all arround better, but that might have just been my personal bias for more setting enriched classes. I would imagine they would fit very well in the Pathfinder power curve though.
Though I MIGHT take SOME of the Feats (IH has some really awesome feats) and modify them to fit into the PF system.
I plan on doing a lot of this in the near future.
That said, three of the main contributors to an IH character's power were IH hit dice (1d4+8 is as good as 1d12+4, or 1d20), IH saves (all saves = character level + ability), and IH feats.
Converted to Pathfinder, some of the classes are actually a little lackluster. But then, I guess they were in IH too. I love Iron Heroes but game balance isn't it's strong suit; it was an incomplete game.
I'm actually updating an Archer class from another setting, well actually two Archer classes combined into one. However I find that much of the ablities are repeats, so I've still ended up with a lot of blank levels. My rule of thumb is go by the standard of no empty levels.
I do have the IH core book, got it via a friend who sold it to me for about five bucks cause he didn't like it. Never went though it is the Archer a good class, and does he get ablites every level. If not thats okay I can still combined him with the Archer update I'm working on.
Thanks,
TTFN Dre
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I don't think the Archer has an ability every level. Lots of Iron heroes classes have some sort of token pool (so put simply, the archer has an aim token pool which is increased by taking more time to aim) which allows them to enhance their abilities (I beleive the Archer can get to ignore armour, etc) so they may not translate very well into Pathfinder class abilities.
I don't think the Archer has an ability every level. Lots of Iron heroes classes have some sort of token pool (so put simply, the archer has an aim token pool which is increased by taking more time to aim) which allows them to enhance their abilities (I beleive the Archer can get to ignore armour, etc) so they may not translate very well into Pathfinder class abilities.
Hmmmmmm? I'll have to dig out my copy. Token pool sounds like I'll have to port a whole new mechanic to the game. Might be too much work. However I could keep the ablity simple, give a +1 to aim per round he takes with a max equle to his Dex. mod. As for ignoring armor I've actually toyed with that for my conversion, in my case it would be Ignore Armor AC 1 about every five levels, so around 20th level they get Ignore AC 4 or 5 depending on which level I start this at. That along with the two Archer classes I already have, and which I liked in 3.5 already, I might just have a fairly good Pathfinder Archer.
Thanks Wintergreen this helps.
TTFN DRE
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Glad to be of help.
I think the whole stunts and challenges mechanic in Iron heroes could be applied to Pathfinder quite successfully.
I think if you had a trade in of rounds aiming for bonuses that were chosen by the player (one round gives a 6th level archer +2 bonus to hit, or ignores a shield or light armour, etc) then it might simulate the token pool (I've not really looked at the archer so I'm a little vague on their abilities). You might also want to check out the Book of Iron Might (also written by Mike Mearls and published by Malhavoc Press).
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Glad to be of help.
I think the whole stunts and challenges mechanic in Iron heroes could be applied to Pathfinder quite successfully.I think if you had a trade in of rounds aiming for bonuses that were chosen by the player (one round gives a 6th level archer +2 bonus to hit, or ignores a shield or light armour, etc) then it might simulate the token pool (I've not really looked at the archer so I'm a little vague on their abilities). You might also want to check out the Book of Iron Might (also written by Mike Mearls and published by Malhavoc Press).
I had hoped that Pathfinder was going to use Stunts and Challenges, but turns out Monte Cook, did not make that part of the game Open. One of the very best parts of the game in my opinion and no one else can use it! Like IH has much support. He should make it Open somehow.