Bard: Perform Puppets / Perform Marionette


Homebrew and House Rules

Liberty's Edge

Of course now that I have a copy of the current rules I felt the need to needlessly complicate matters by coming up with a general idea for a Bard character not specifically covered in the rules.

I know that you could easily assume that Puppets/Marionettes could count as Acting or Comedy for the purpose of Versatile Performance, but these choices don't really catch the feeling that I was looking for with the character. I was thinking of a character trained in a proper school on the inner sea capable of both crass street performances of Punch and Judy (clearly covered by Comedy) and with the more artistic Marionette performances in say, Chelish Opera or in a play performed entirely through puppets.

I ran this by my regular group, one of them a professional puppeteer, and I got the response that there should be a separate skill. The general consensus on associated skills were Disable device and Sleight of Hand. I'm not entirely satisfied with that, thinking it a bit too out of flavor compared to the other performance types, and maybe a bit too mechanically advantageous. (Though, I do find myself enjoying the thought of those skills being used for a Bard in a party short a rogue, especially when used with ranged legerdemain from Arcane Trickster.)

My general question being, what sort of skills would people recommend for this sort of performance skill?


Everything I know about puppeteering I learned from Hollywood- specifically 'Being John Malkovich' and it doesn't really help answer your question.

My own inclination is that it seems like a bit of an odd skill, it should have odd matches for versatile performance. I would say Use Magic Device for one, since no other Performance covers it.

For the other, I dunno maybe Fly - since a puppeteer can make his/her puppets defy gravity. But then again, I don't know that Fly is the most useful skill for a bard.


For associated skills I'd say anything that pertains to fine movements with the hands. Sleight of Hand would be a sure-fire choice — in fact, I can't see that NOT being an associated skill for puppeteering.

As for a second skill:

Disguise: You are already practicing voices and costume design for the marionettes.
OR
Disable Device: Again, fine movements.

Also, while you might take a dim view of letting the player have both of the thievery skills for "free", there are a few things to keep in mind. First, having your hands occupied with puppets is going to be a major pain when it comes time for combat. That's a fairly major balancing factor compared to singing or oratory. Secondly, even at max-ranks, a bard will not be as adept at disable device due to the lack of the trapfinding class feature.

With those factors in mind, I don't see this being problematic. In fact, I can almost see the puppeteering thing as being a "cover" for the character's real skills. If nothing else, you could use such a character as an NPC foil to your characters. Imagine the PCs being hired to guard a mansion where a noble is entertaining guests with a masterful puppeteer he's hired. When some important documents or valuables go missing in his estate on the PC's watch, they end up feeling the heat. :)

Liberty's Edge

First off, thanks for the replies. I'm not too worried about game balance as far as some other player running roughshod over the rules with this house ruling, but rather more interested in whether it's a fair or flavor appropriate skill pairing for me to use. Thankfully I get to play as much as I run.

Dance is interesting but doesn't seem to quite fit. It would be neat for a possessing spirit that could use the players as marionettes. But that's neither here nor there.

Use Magic device sounds cool, with the idea of puppets with wands causing general mayhem. Though I'm not sure if it makes sense in the same way as a Drum being used for intimidate though, as we're talking about a skill that focuses on the character using their force of will to use a device beyond their normal knowledge.

Disable device is a bit troublesome as you could then make a plausible argument about disarming a trap from 20 feet above the device. It does make a lot of sense however.

Sleight of Hand is definitely in, I'm glad to hear that totally unrelated people see the way that fits in to the world. Assuages my guilt somewhat at being silly enough to pick people's pockets with a marionette.

I just think this general form of perform is almost too good to not use as part of a character idea. I appreciate the extra points of view.

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