So, I completely forgot what my second Trait was (if I even picked Traits in the first place...), can I take this one?
It'll save me like 12 skill points.
Aaaaargh, the "Use gauntlets or something instead of an unarmed strike" option looks so g#+ d%#n goooood but I really don't want to use gauntlets argh
*Throws up hands*
Nicos, you're fine with me flavoring it as just regular unarmed strikes, right? I wanted some Skullcrusher Gauntlets anyway. =/
IMO, the real problem with unarmed combat is that it pretty much forces you into TWF, since that's the only way to make AoMF a worthwhile investment. I suppose the critical threat/multiplier could be better (a Monk class feature, maybe?), but it's not that important, IMO.
There should be an slotless items that can be enchanted as an weapon and affects unarmed strikes, but not natural weapons and doesn't apply to off-hand attacks.
I'm fine with the trait (although is a weir one),
Yeah, it's weird, but considering I wanted three Knowledge skills (the other two of which are Kn. Religion and Kn. History), it's way better than the alternative +1 and make it a class skill thing.
not sure what are you askng with the gantlets though.
Basically, can I wear gauntlets, and pretend I'm not wearing gauntlets. Mechanically, I am using gauntlets, with all the benefits (they're actually weapons, and can be enchanted as such, I an wear amulets, etc.) and drawbacks (4 level stunted Unarmed progression, can be sundered...flavor it as injuring my hands or something), but flavor-wise, I'm still punching, kicking, etc. with my bare body.
Argh. The AoMF is just so EXPENSIVE though.
If it just cost as a weapon, and WORKED as a weapon, I wouldn't have a problem with it. I'm fine trading my neck slot for the ability to punch s@+$ good but this "Oh it costs twice as much for half the benefit" stuff is really getting on my nerves now that there's a mechanically viable alternative with the Brawler.
=/
I don't really like having to decide over being good now, or potentially maybe being good later.
Blarg. Whatever. I want to use the Skullcrusher Gauntlets because of their secondary effects anyway, so I guess Sun forgets how to kick things until an unspecified point in the near future.
I wanted to use the Skullcrusher Gauntlets because they upgrade Knockout's DC by 2, and I like that ability. I'd also considered adding some non-numerical qualities (Fortuitous, for an extra AoO at a -5 when I whack someone seemed amusing...really rack up the Snake Fang hits).
The problem is, the AoMF is A.) Too costly to consider adding non-numerical qualities, and B.) Gets less mileage out of them since it can only reach a maximum of +5 anyway, half of the usual +10 which makes those abilities more worthwhile.
For the price of the +4 Skullcrusher Gauntlets (Which come with a 15k+ price tag in addition to the further +3, for a total of ~45k for the +4) I STILL can't buy even a +4 AoMF (which costs an extra NINETEEN THOUSAND, and lacks the Gauntlets' other special abilities).
Plus, my damage took a big dip with this rebuild, I had to drop Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization AND Improved Critical to fit all my Feats in, in addition to losing Close Combatant (+2 to-hit, +4 damage) and access to Gloves of Dueling (a further +2 hit/damage), for a total of -5 hit, -8 damage, and -1 threat range, so even an extra +1 is nice to have. Not counting the loss of Favored Enemy +2.
I really like the options and abilities I have as an almost single classed character here, and Martial Flexibility will be super fun I think, so I don't really mind the loss, but I WILL be a significantly less effective combatant from a pure damage perspective.
By the by, what kind of AC and Save boosters did we have again? I couldn't find the exact houserules on the subject, unless we'd swapped to Lemmy's.
Gotcha. I was off by 1 Dodge.
Argh. The AoMF is just so EXPENSIVE though.
If it just cost as a weapon, and WORKED as a weapon, I wouldn't have a problem with it. I'm fine trading my neck slot for the ability to punch s%~& good but this "Oh it costs twice as much for half the benefit" stuff is really getting on my nerves now that there's a mechanically viable alternative with the Brawler.
Nicos, is there any problem in simply changing the AoMF to be... you know... less awful? Just make it cost the same as an weapon and have the same enhancement limit (+10 instead of +5). Sun Xiao is not even using TWF.
The ability to kick instead of punching is irrelevant most of the time anyway, and he pays for that benefit by sacrificing an item slot.
Kicking is only relevant when he can't use his hands, which is rather rare.
Fixing the AoMF is easy. Just make it work as an weapon. Same cost, same benefit. Except you sacrifice an item slot for the ability to attack when your hands are full... Not exactly something that happens every session, since Sun Xiao is not carrying a wheelbarrow around.
EDIT: In fact, making the AoMF work like a double weapons should work... You enhance one "side" for IUS and another one if you want to use TWF or FoB or something like that.
Well, I AM using TWFing (Brawler's Flurry) but it makes no gosh darned sense that I can pay for one weapon like Brass Knuckles and Flurry just fine, but have to pay twice as much for fists.
Really, if there was an Amulet of Mighty Fists that JUST worked with fists, cost as much as a wepaon, worked like a weapon, etc. I wouldn't mind using the amulet slot for it at all.
Hell, I'd even still buy the Skullcrusher Gauntlets for the +2 DC, though if you'd let me add that as a +13k gp property on the AoMF I'd take that too.
What about 1.5 times?
?
EDIT: And only now I realized you meant the price! Okay, now I feel dumb.
I just really don't see why it needs to cost any extra at all. The devs only think it's a good idea because it affects Natural Attacks too. Take away that property, and it's just a weapon.
Like, I get no extra benefit except being able to attack with my hands full...except I never hold anything in more than one hand anyway, so I think that's more than covered by it precluding useful items like the Necklace of Adaptation.
In fact, since it costs an item slot, it means Sun Xiao is technically paying double the price already, since slotless items cost twice as much as slotted gear.
The price. 1.5 times the weapon price.
Honest Question: Why does it need to cost more at all? What's the added benefit of unarmed strikes in comparison to a cestus or gauntlet that makes it so much better? The ability to fight with his hands full? 99% of the time I'd rather have an 17-20 crit threat range and save a item slot and gods know how many feats.
The price. 1.5 times the weapon price.Honest Question: Why does it need to cost more at all? What's the added benefit of unarmed strikes in comparison to a cestus or gauntlet that makes it so much better? The ability to fight with his hands full? 99% of the time I'd rather have an 17-20 crit threat range and save a item slot and gods know how many feats.
Devil's Advocate: Being able to fight with hands full is super useful. I don't believe it's worth the huge increase in gold cost however. 1.25x is reasonable to me.
I'd make it some kind of incense you use to meditate with at the start of the day.
Devil's Advocate: Being able to fight with hands full is super useful. I don't believe it's worth the huge increase in gold cost however. 1.25x is reasonable to me.
It's only useful if:
A- You are wielding another weapon. And even then, you gonna have to spend a lot of money to enchant that weapon if you want it to mean anything. It might be a good tactic at low levels... But it's not all that great by the time you hit the double digits.
B- You have natural attacks.
If A is that much of a problem, it should, at best, be a static increase... Like an extra +5k. Not a % of the total price.
B is easily fixed by making the AoMF not affect natural attacks
OTOH:
A- You sacrifice an item slot.
B- You have an awful threat range
C- You have no touch stuff like oozes, fire elemental, barbed devils, etc. More than a few creatures have defensive abilities that only work against creatures who attack with unarmed strikes or natural weapons.
I say this because I honestly believe the AoMF is one of the worst-designed items in the game.
The AoMF can be Sundered too. Much more easily than a weapon, having like 1 HP and no Hardness.
I may regret pointing that out.
You also can not be disarmed and sundered. I do think AoMF is overpriced, not sure how much overpriced though.
An AoMF is actually incredibly vulnerable to sunder.
You also can not be disarmed and sundered. I do think AoMF is overpriced, not sure how much overpriced though.
Disarm doesn't work on cestus or gauntlets either... And I can't really remember the last time I saw anyone using sunder. Players don't like the idea of breaking loot, so why would monsters be any different? (Also: weapon cords and adamantine weapons).
And let's not forget that you need a feat just to avoid AoO with unarmed strikes. And even then, you still need specific classes just to make it a half-decent weapon.
From a optimization perspective, Sun Xiao would probably be more effective with a Temple Sword, so I doubt a AoMF that costs as much as a similar weapon would make him overpowered.
Basically, the Hamtulatsu robe costs 1000 gp extra, but grants the Hamatulatsu Feat and only works for Evil Monks. Otherwise, it works as a Monk's Robe.
Edit: Oh, it also doesn't grant the extra use of Stunning Fist per day.
So, basically, you trade 1 use of Stunning Fist and 1000 gp for the ability to Sicken people on a critical.
It means I don't get the "The Hamatulatsu Feat's Sickened duration increases to 2 rounds" benefit from the robe, I just gain the Feat instead.
Guys this is literally the person in Candlekeep told us to find.
She's somehow involved with daemons, the same creatures working for whoever imprisoned Tandall's soul.
I don't see any reason to trust her. If she doesn't cooperate, I'll kill her. If she is who she says, then I'll take her notes and tell Candlekeep that she was working with daemons.
Guys this is literally the person in Candlekeep told us to find.
And if she refuses to answer even these simple questions, she's hardly going to help us later when we need more detailed information on esoteric and inherently dangerous knowledge.
The daemons worked for her "sponsor". So she is/was working for a guy who employs daemons. And she's trying to conceal his identity too.
And again... She now has had 4 chances to talk. She refused each and every one of the first 3, despite the fact that..
A- We saved her life and her friend's.
B- I offered to heal her and her friend.
C- I promised not to steal anything from her.
D- We didn't hurt her at all.
She didn't even try to negotiate or clarify anything, she simply stood completely silent, refusing to answer questions as simple as "where is the rest of your expedition?".
So far, she gave me no reason to trust her.... In fact, all she's done is admit that she's a good liar and say that she's willing to sacrifice not only her own life, but also that or her friend, to hide her involvement with whoever sent those daemons.
If she dies, it's of her own choosing.
Well... I'm done with my "turn". I'll either listen to what she has to say or put 4 arrows in her head. Her choice.
So, did you reach a decision on the AoMF?
Yeah. Sorry, I really don't want to be "that guy" but now that I have the option of using extra damage on gauntlets (especially the Skullcrusher Gauntlets, which also give me a special ability and +2 to Knockout DC for 20k LESS than the AoMF) and stuff, I REALLY don't see the point in using an AoMF for 2x price.
If you don't like the idea still, just gonna use gauntlets.
Is there a change in the FAQ to how gauntlets work with unarmed strike?
Nah, Brawlers just get to use their US damage with Close weapons. But, cool.
Aight.