Hi. I know this question has been answered before, but I can't find the thread and the search function is disabled.
My party is getting ready to experience haunts for the first time. We have a Cleric, a Cleric/Rogue and a Paladin in the party. We just converted from the beta rules to the final pathfinderrpg rules.
If none of the divine folk pick up the 'Turn Undead' feat, are they pretty much out of luck at driving off the haunts? I seem to recall that we can give the haunts a certain number of hp based on the HD, and if the channel energy does enough damage, that will disable them. However, with the HD most of the haunts have, even if all three characters gets off a healing burst at a total of 5d6, I think it is pretty unlikely to match those hitpoints.
Of course, this is more fun for me to torment the players- but they might get a bit upset having that many divine characters and no way to stop the haunts.
In my email to the group about converting their characters to final rules, I did include the info that their channel energy ability has changed and if they want to swap out an existing feat for 'Turn Undead', they are welcome to do so. I think the general response I got was that they'd rather hurt the undead then make it run away. If someone doesn't take it before those encounters, I'm pretty positive it will be on the wish list in the future.
If I'm thinking this through wrongly, please let me know.
Thanks!
Jonathan
Don't forget a 3rd level or higher paladin isn't effected by them, as they are fear effects (for which she is immune). I would still have the character experience them, but not be affected by them.
My take on this is that you don't have to destroy them, merely "turn" them properly. That means you channel energy, and if the haunt fails its save, it is prevented.
Undead have strong will saves, i.e. 1/2 HD +2. Since all haunts seem to have HD equal to 2x their CR, you can go for CR +2.
If you want to tweak the numbers, get the characters' stats.
Figure out how hard or easy it would have been under 3.5 for the characters to turn those critters (i.e. what they needed to roll on their turning check), and how hard the it is for the haunts to make those saves in PF. If things look too good for the players, adjust the will saves upward. In case of a bleak outlook, adjust downward.
Don't forget a 3rd level or higher paladin isn't effected by them, as they are fear effects (for which she is immune). I would still have the character experience them, but not be affected by them.
Thanks for the reminder. I was pretty saddened when I first found out he would not be affected. His little much repeated song is 'I'm a Paladin and I'm ok'.. Hmm, pride isn't one of those sins was it? *grin*
So do you agree with my thought that their channel energy without the feat isn't going to do much for those encounters?
My take on this is that you don't have to destroy them, merely "turn" them properly. That means you channel energy, and if the haunt fails its save, it is prevented.
But without the 'Turn Undead' feat, the players can no longer automatically turn anything - just damage them, so no save, no banishing the haunts.
Don't forget a 3rd level or higher paladin isn't effected by them, as they are fear effects (for which she is immune). I would still have the character experience them, but not be affected by them.Thanks for the reminder. I was pretty saddened when I first found out he would not be affected. His little much repeated song is 'I'm a Paladin and I'm ok'.. Hmm, pride isn't one of those sins was it? *grin*
So do you agree with my thought that their channel energy without the feat isn't going to do much for those encounters?
You could follow the suggestion above.
My suggestion would be to give the haunts #d8 hit points. Roll it up (some might be stronger than others). Then let them channel the energy. In some cases they may roll high, and you might have rolled low, and they "turn" them. In other cases, they will fail. This will make them more willing to try, which is (a) more fun and (b) a good drain of their resources.
My suggestion would be to give the haunts #d8 hit points. Roll it up (some might be stronger than others). Then let them channel the energy. In some cases they may roll high, and you might have rolled low, and they "turn" them. In other cases, they will fail. This will make them more willing to try, which is (a) more fun and (b) a good drain of their resources.
I like this idea. It still rewards the people who took the 'turn undead' feat, but at least gives the players a chance to protect their party from the haunts.
Thanks,
Jonathan
But without the 'Turn Undead' feat, the players can no longer automatically turn anything - just damage them, so no save, no banishing the haunts.
Read channel energy again: Creatures that are damaged receive a saving throw for half damage.
Use that save indicate if the channeler can ward off he haunt.
My suggestion would be to give the haunts #d8 hit points.
I think that would be problematic.
On average, they have 2HD per CR, that means, on average, 9 hp per CR.
Channelers get 1d6 to channel, plus another 1d6 for every two additional levels.
So We have this usual progression:
Level (= CR or character level)/Channel/HP
1/3.5/9
2/3.5/18
3/7/27
4/7/36
Even with only 1 HD per CR, you'll end up with a lot more HP than channel power - especially since the haunt will get that save for half damage as well!
My suggestion would be to give the haunts #d8 hit points.I think that would be problematic.
On average, they have 2HD per CR, that means, on average, 9 hp per CR.
Channelers get 1d6 to channel, plus another 1d6 for every two additional levels.
So We have this usual progression:
Level (= CR or character level)/Channel/HP
1/3.5/9
2/3.5/18
3/7/27
4/7/36Even with only 1 HD per CR, you'll end up with a lot more HP than channel power - especially since the haunt will get that save for half damage as well!
Well my statement was made based on the variant in CD, I figured the Pathfinder was close to it (and it is pretty close). I wouldn't worry too much about CR to determine how to do it, but I think you are right, looking at PF#2, the HD = 2*CR. Since the old turning rules were based on HD and CR, I think we should stay focused on that.
Here is how I would do it with this new information.
CR 3 (6 HD) haunt would have 3d6 hp that can be "attacked" by channeling. Basically think about how much damage a cleric with the same HD as the haunt has would do when channeling. So a 6th level cleric would do 3d6 points of damage to an undead, and thus the haunt has 3d6 hit points.
CR 4 (8 HD) haunt would have 4d6 hit points, since that is how much channeling damage a 8th level cleric should do.
How does that sound?