First off, I'd like to state that I love the pdf. It's truly a great piece of art. The images, the layout, the backgrounds, very nice. An exact duplicate of the paper book.
There is the problem. My laptop, and the laptops of my fellow gamers, are under-powered to read and quickly scan through the book to find wheat we need. Not unless we reboot the OS every couple hours to refresh the RAM.
What I'd like to see is another download, this one removing the the lacey/flowery background images from all the pages, as well as, possibly, the chapter images.
This would greatly reduce the size of the pdf, and having a mostly-text document would greatly speed up searches and lessen the strain on laptops. After all, I think most people who purchase the pdf did so for quick access and use on their laptop.
Again, a great document, a few flaws with links and a page or two out of order, but overall, fabulous! Just not very practical, from a gamers perspective.
Agreed!
If you check out the Pathfinder Reference Document, I think they've already made what you're asking for.
If you're OK with non-local net access, you should be good to go, but if you worry about not always having 'net access, you just need to save all the .html files to your computer. The links will all be referring to paizo.com domains, but I'm pretty sure many browsers include functionality to create local versions of web-sites (mine doesn't but I'm using Linux and don't expect that much functionality). If you can't figure out an automatic way to convert paizo.com links to local file links, you should be able to go thru the files in a text editor, and find/replace "http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/" with local link pointers.
If you're having problems where looking at PDFs means you need to restart your computer periodically, I would suggest trying out a LiveCD of Linux, like Ubuntu or Xubuntu.
If you check out the Pathfinder Reference Document, I think they've already made what you're asking for. You should be able to save all the .html files and have them locally stored on your computer if you worry about not always having 'net access.
I was under the assumption that the PRD and the Core Rulebook were not identical. If they are, then what, really, is the reason for purchasing the PDF, when all I have to do is copy the PRD and make my own.
Is there nothing really stopping me from taking the PRD, and a few weeks of my time, and making my own Core Rulebook pdf?
Won't there be rules and information missing? Descriptions, little subtleties?
Not being snarky, I'm just uninformed.
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From the PRD:
"This compendium is NOT the official Pathfinder Roleplaying Game! Players interested in a user-friendly introduction to the Pathfinder system will want to purchase the complete Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook and the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary, which comes complete with more than 350 monsters to menace your player characters.
Both books contain hundreds of beautiful full-color illustrations and lots of descriptive text to explain and introduce key rules concepts necessary to fully enjoy the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game experience. Both the Core Rulebook and Bestiary are also available in affordable PDF editions."
No pictures, not flavor text, no examples using the iconics, etc.
From the PRD:
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That was my thoughts as well. I saw them after posting.
Also, I love the layout of the current PDF. The links are a great touch. The bookmarks will take some getting used to. Although I'd much prefer to have it set up in Chapters, like normal.
If you're wanting a specific thing, simply head down to the index, find the item, and click the link, and you're there. No need to the extravagant, somewhat convoluted bookmarking layout they have currently.
The current PDF layout, minus the bloated images and backgrounds, and I feel it would be a perfect portable rulebook.
With the PDF you should also be able to hit "find" instead of relying on the index.
Of course, I'm one of those lucky enough to have gotten their order for *the real thing* in on time :-)
Just how old and/or underpowered are your laptops that they can't handle the pdf?
Because my 6 year old, single-threaded Toshiba managed to skim through the full pdf (not the separate file for each chapter ones) at a respectable speed.
If you haven't yet, try using the separate file for each chapter, and have only the chapters open you need at the moment, it should be much easier for the computer to handle (the Class chapter is 56 pages, a lot lighter on system resources than the full 578 page pdf).
Of course, the PRD is another valid alternative.
Just how old and/or underpowered are your laptops that they can't handle the pdf?
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Of course, the PRD is another valid alternative.
I have a 5-yr old Dell Latitude 100L.
But it's not just the PDF that I have open. Most gamers that I know of have multiple files. Here are just a few.
1) PDF - Pathfinder Core Ruleboook
2) Excel - Character Sheets
3) PDF - Kalamar Atlas (My game world)
MISC Books
4) PDF - Spell Compendium
5) PDF - Monster Manuals
6) PDF - Other Kalamar books as needed
This is not including any custom mapping software such as Dundjinni, AutoRealm, Campaign Cartographer, etc...
So it's not JUST the PFCR that is up and running. If it was, then I really wouldn't have much of a problem.
I have already taken the PFCR and extracted all of the text with Acrobat. I've opened it up in Word07 am now going through and reformatting it back to how it should be; making all of the paragraphs into one line, instead of broken into separate line-paragraphs, line adjustments etc..
Once that is done, I'll copy it all, paste it into Adobe InDesign CS4, and format it back to a more text-oriented book, then export it as PDF.
Unfortunately, this will mean losing the hyperlinks, but I'm ok with that, at least until a more laptop-friendly version is released (if that happens).
I know I explained how you can use the PRD,
but seriously, I prefer the 'dead-tree' book itself.
If you apply tabs (home-made or store bought) to the different chapters, you can find almost anything as easily as with a PDF, and not having to 'scroll' down pages is a huge boon.
That's just my preference of course.
I know I explained how you can use the PRD,
but seriously, I prefer the 'dead-tree' book itself.
If you apply tabs (home-made or store bought) to the different chapters, you can find almost anything as easily as with a PDF, and not having to 'scroll' down pages is a huge boon.
That's just my preference of course.
Oh, yes, I heartily agree with you there. However, I have not the funds for such an expenditure right now. Also, a 4lb thick books will just be added weight to my other books, dice, notes, miniatures. I already have a laptop case and a double-thick leather satchel full.
As for the PRD, yes, it's very well done, but I currently have the whole core book in text form. Once I get it all formatted and in InDesign, I'll look into adding some hyperlinks, especially in the Spells section.
Thanks for your insight and input. It's been most helpful :)
i agree that the pdf would be easier to use if it was less graphically intense. there's a huge difference in response if you flick back and forth between the beta & new version.
just reducing the background layering would be an improvement, no need to remove foreground pictures since they don't seem to be a problem in the beta.
as a short term hack there's a 'text viewer' mode in foxit reader. it ain't pretty but you don't have to wait for the page to load.
Good tip, I was going to say he should strip out images from PDFs themselves rather than extract text and re-format it, but yeah, using a reader that let's you turn off images is a good approach too.
i agree that the pdf would be easier to use if it was less graphically intense. there's a huge difference in response if you flick back and forth between the beta & new version.
just reducing the background layering would be an improvement, no need to remove foreground pictures since they don't seem to be a problem in the beta.
as a short term hack there's a 'text viewer' mode in foxit reader. it ain't pretty but you don't have to wait for the page to load.
I've already tried that venture. (I have Foxit on my laptop, and Acrobat on my PC at work.) The text-only is very horrible, and actually makes it harder to locate information. When you view text only, the formatting is greatly hampered and switches to a monospaced font.
A good suggestion, but perhaps when Foxit improves it it will be more viable. Thanks!
Good tip, I was going to say he should strip out images from PDFs themselves rather than extract text and re-format it, but yeah, using a reader that let's you turn off images is a good approach too.
I've attempted to load and edit the pdf in both Acrobat and Photoshop, but there's a password on it. That's why I went the route of extracting the text and simply formatting it myself.
I do not know any other ways of extracting the images from the pdf. If you have some tips, I am all ears! Thanks!
In Acrobat, Edit > Preferences allows you to turn off display of large images, and lower the display dpi.
I hope this helps.
In Acrobat, Edit > Preferences allows you to turn off display of large images, and lower the display dpi.
I hope this helps.
Sorry, didn't help me. Scrolling still atrociously slow. :(
Sorry, didn't help me. Scrolling still atrociously slow. :(In Acrobat, Edit > Preferences allows you to turn off display of large images, and lower the display dpi.
I hope this helps.
Not sure here, I have Acrobat on the desktop only, and it's a real fast machine built for CAD and Adobe programs.
My laptop only has Foxit reader. I did load it up on the desktop, and removed the images, but it gave it a dark gray background, difficult to read back text on dark gray. Saw no way to change the gray.
Does anyone know how to go about printing a PDF without the images? Printing only the text? I saw no option in the Print Dialogue box, not in preferences.
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I plan to run games with the reference document and printed pages from the PDF. my group isnt exactly wealthy and arent as interested in pathfinder as I am. They will still play it and my hopes are they will buy the book at a later date but for now I will simply print the sections they need for their characters and run rules through the reference document. Maybe your Laptop could at least cope with the reference document used in conjuntion with the PDF for occasional clarification?
The reference document (if like the SRD) should have everything rules wise to play the game, only with the fluff cut out.
The reference document (if like the SRD) should have everything rules wise to play the game, only with the fluff cut out.
As far as I know, it does. I will probably use the PRD for occasional referencing. My problem with the PDF at this time is that it is so slow that it is very difficult to use (I am currently reading the 0ne-file-per-chapter version). For jumping from one half-page to the next, I have to wait about ten to twenty seconds! I am a fast reader and waiting that long to be able to complete the reading of a sentence is atrocious!
In addition to making it easier for people searching the document and especially on a low end machine---
---A mostly text .pdf would probably be far more friendly to visually impaired gamers who use screen reader software like JAWS.
A friend of mine, a great gamer and GM, is blind and very interested in Pathfinder. But the book is nothing but a 4 pound brick of paper to him (I cannot begin to imagine what the size of the book would be in braille; yikes) and I've worried that all the watermarking and all the shiny shiny in the .pdf would make the digital version incomprehensible even to the best screenreaders (graphics in particular often break up text in a weird way, and sentences don't get linked together the way they should). Granted, I don't know exactly how the .pdf reads in JAWS, but I don't know if I want my friend to spend 10 bucks just to find out.
Now, I know he can probably use the PSRD online easily enough--it looks nice and neatly texty. But he's the kinda guy that would want to pay the publishers for the product if he enjoys it.
I join this plea, I intend to use the PDF during games using my netbook which has an atom processor, not a beefy machine by any standard and I would benefit from a mostly text version. lighter processing also means longer battery life.
Will you not have access to the internet? You can always use either the PRD or my SRD site... its text and mine has a search function for finding things fast. Just curious why people would be clamoring for a purely text pdf when there is a PRD and SRD already?
I join this plea, I intend to use the PDF during games using my netbook which has an atom processor, not a beefy machine by any standard and I would benefit from a mostly text version. lighter processing also means longer battery life.Will you not have access to the internet? You can always use either the PRD or my SRD site... its text and mine has a search function for finding things fast. Just curious why people would be clamoring for a purely text pdf when there is a PRD and SRD already?
As I mentioned in my post right above yours, I have a reason for someone to want to purchase a text-based .pdf (to support the publisher while having a product he can actually "read" despite his disability).
Some people will not have access to the Internet, either. Unless you do what the d20 SRD guy did and allowed people to download an offline copy for a donation to help him cover bandwidth costs. Sometimes people do like having a file that they can access without needing an Internet browser or Internet access.
Don't get me wrong, I think the PRD/SRD sites are awesome and very useful. But there is a place for a texty .pdf, and there is no reason for one to "compete" against the other. They'd each serve their purpose.
As I mentioned in my post right above yours, I have a reason for someone to want to purchase a text-based .pdf (to support the publisher while having a product he can actually "read" despite his disability).
Sorry, I do usually try to read thoroughly before posting and I can see I clearly goofed on this one. You have a very good reason, clearly. On a side note, I'd love to work with you personally on finding ways to make the site more "blind user" friendly etc. I was going to say "visually challenged" or "handicapped" or something but just figured those all sounded stupid and went with the old straightforward approach lol Anyway, it's already pretty good I think as its mostly text but I'm open to any suggestions.
Some people will not have access to the Internet, either. Unless you do what the d20 SRD guy did and allowed people to download an offline copy for a donation to help him cover bandwidth costs. Sometimes people do like having a file that they can access without needing an Internet browser or Internet access.
Funny you should mention that, as I began offering that (for free) a few days ago. It's on the Downloads page of the site. It's not perfect but it should be functional.
Don't get me wrong, I think the PRD/SRD sites are awesome and very useful. But there is a place for a texty .pdf, and there is no reason for one to "compete" against the other. They'd each serve their purpose.
Oh no I agree. I think the PDF is an awesome tool for presenting content in a book-like format, complete with art and all. However, for my purposes, running a game out of one, or using one as a reference in-game, I find it extremely unusable. It is simply too slow. Websites with decent search function destroy PDF's when it comes to finding something quickly.
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First, serious props to jeryst for his or her work on that version of the PFRPG rules in html format... looking great! And THANK YOU for offering a downloadable version usable offline!!! You rock!
To address the issue from Paizo's standpoint: I would HAPPILY pay for a fully functional and thoroughly cross-hyperlinked html version of the whole core rulebook (and eventually bestiary) on CD-ROM (or download) with a powerful search functionality. It would be faster than a pdf and take less space. They could enhance the package a bit with some other simple table-top utilities like a dice bot, spell and monster filters, etc, too.
Props to Paizo for offering the PRD as it is for free, I worship that, but jazz it up a little (not with slow-loading images, just clean up the format) offer a great built in search engine and sell the whole thing as a downloadable package and they would have no problem getting another $10 or $20 out of me!!
First, serious props to jeryst for his or her work on that version of the PFRPG rules in html format... looking great! And THANK YOU for offering a downloadable version usable offline!!! You rock!
Thanks Desert Yeti! I'll be updating the downloadable site now and then as I incorporate errata and other features so check back periodically. Oh and, not that its a big thing but its the second time now so I just want to nip it in the bud.. its "jreyst" :)
To address the issue from Paizo's standpoint: I would HAPPILY pay for a fully functional and thoroughly cross-hyperlinked html version of the whole core rulebook (and eventually bestiary) on CD-ROM (or download) with a powerful search functionality. It would be faster than a pdf and take less space. They could enhance the package a bit with some other simple table-top utilities like a dice bot, spell and monster filters, etc, too.
Yeah the spell and monster filters would certainly be nice, but as I think Jans (d20srd.org) showed, that can very easily be done within the fan community. I'd like to incorporate some more advanced features on my site in the future but that's going to require hooking up with one or more developers who are familiar with working with Google Gadgets.
There is a button at the top (it looks like a page with a pair of glasses) that turns the pdf into a text document. I don't know if this helps your problems.