As soon as I'm back in the office, I'm going to make some changes to tone down the complexity of act 2 in this scenario. Stay tuned.
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The faction missions for this adventure seemed a little hard given that some of them require trained skill checks that the PC of that faction may not be able to make.
DC 15 Knowledge (The Planes) to get a spear, although the soldiers in the next encounter use the same type of spear.
And even if that PC tries to ask the other players for help to make the check, there may not be any PC at the table who can.
Seems a bit harsh, given in year 1, item access is controlled by PA points.
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The skill checks are only needed for the 'bonus' points. The regular faction points require no rolls.
The real kicker in this scenario is act 2, as Joshua said above. I am interested to see how he changes it.
As a suggestion from someone who played 26 at Origins. Two simple changes made by our GM made the encounter tough by livable.
He ruled the encounter happened at dusk (no invisibiliy for the creatures in question)
He ruled that potions still worked. That kept the flavor of the Manna Waste without it being suicide. The wizard actually ran around feeding cure potions to the fighters. (fun stuff)
I'm going to reduce the number of monsters present and place the fight in an area where magic is "flickering" -- ie, sometimes on and sometimes off. It'll still be a challenging fight, but not one where a full party of 5 level 10 PCs get eaten (sorry PRPG playtesters!). Should have the update up soonish.
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The skill checks are only needed for the 'bonus' points. The regular faction points require no rolls.
The real kicker in this scenario is act 2, as Joshua said above. I am interested to see how he changes it.
There really isn't any difference between a 'bonus' PA point and a normal one. I just don't like being given a faction mission I have NO chance to complete. I like subtle faction missions and missions that aren't just pick up the 'item', or deliver the message, but putting a prereq in doesn't make the mission 'harder' it just means that certain characters can't do the mission even though they know exactly what they have to do.
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I'm going to reduce the number of monsters present and place the fight in an area where magic is "flickering" -- ie, sometimes on and sometimes off. It'll still be a challenging fight, but not one where a full party of 5 level 10 PCs get eaten (sorry PRPG playtesters!). Should have the update up soonish.
That mana waste encounter was a beating. It is slightly too tough for a standard party, we survived it but should have lost a couple of PCs.
Perhaps having caster level checks to cast spells successfully, and having spells weakened (minimum damage for damage/healing spells and decreasing the DCs of spells with saving throws)?
The problem with a total loss of magic is that a Wizard/Sorcerer is essentially a Commoner for that encounter.
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I have to say, excellent style in the adventure, I loved the flavor of the whole thing. It definitely reveals a lot of cool world history.
I second that. There was a lot of regional flavour in the module; I really felt that as Pathfinders, we were doing something, and going places, fantastical and unusual.
I particular liked the way the monsters were handled in the first combat encounter:
All in all, I had a lot of fun with the module, although I agree that 'requiring skill checks' to finish a faction mission can be punishing to players...
Act 2 was updated and new PDF went up today. Please update your PDF collection with the new one.
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I'm fixin' ta murderize me some PCs tomarra night... and I'm wondering if I should just rough-convert the creatures by adding CMB/CMD and leaving it at that, or try using the Bestiary to replace the Juju Zombies with Fast Zombies and the Hellcats with Fiendish Advanced Dire Lions or something. Any thoughts?
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Let's resurect this bad boy...
I got a few questions regarding the scenario (I'm GMing it next week). Some help from somebody who had GMed it would be appreciated!
2) The battle cleric doesn't have a god, only 2 domains. Which god would suit him better? It seems to me that Zon-Kuthon would be the only one fitting the battle cleric domains... (I will also give him a holy symbol and a spell component pouch since none are included in his equipment!)
3) I am very confused with the second encounter (the Hellcats). At the high tier, the description calls for an extra Hellcat (for a total of two) but the maps says... like 5 or 6 of them. It seems to be a big contradiction. Is the map linked to the first version of the scenario? (the encounter was toned down, but maybe the map wasn't...)
4) The soldiers have the toughness feat twice. I know I can't replace one for an another feat but would you at least convert them to the way the feat works in Pathfinder? (in this case, +4 hp at level 4, as opposed to only 3)
5) I am also very confused at the encounter with the battle cleric. In the high tier, the 10 warriors are armed with longspears with reach, but they are fighting in the middle of an area full of statues (as in 1 per square), and thus won't be able to use their reach weapons properly. Would you consider the area like difficult terrain? Does it make more sense to just the the soldiers out of the rows of soldiers (even if it says they are grouped in the middle of it)? If I stick to the tactics, it will be difficult terrain, possibly squeezed in every square, everybody will have cover against eveybody, thus negating the aoos from the reach weapons, and the soldiers will have to switch to their short swords, making them near useless...
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
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Well, generally, you are not allowed to make changes to the mechanics of a scenario. And a specific case of this is converting older scenarios made under 3.5 to Pathfinder. Some things do not work that well anymore, but there are very limited number of things you're allowed to do to the enemies. You add CMB and CMD scores to them and make their skills into the Pathfinder one (like combinig Spot and Listen to Perception), but that's it. No changing feats, no adding channels, etc. I think giving the cleric a god would also fall under this, maybe.
For the Hellcats, it is most likely a question of them not changing the map. Just use some of the spots given.
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GMing this at the FLGS soon and just doublechecking the mechanics of the Hellcats/Antimagic Field combat:
Round by round, I check for an Antimagic Field effect.
If there ISN'T an Antimagic Field effect, the PCs magical weapons and spells work as normal...however the Hellcats are invisible.
If there IS an Antimagic Field effect, the PCs are boned...but so are the Hellcats as their (Su) ability is suppressed and they turn visible.
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When I ran it last year, I used the 3.5 version of the Hellcats rather than the Pathfinder, which, from what I assume is kosher (discussed it first with one of my VL, a former VC, and was running for my VC). The reason was simple... it kept the flavor of the encounter to what the author intended. In PFRPG, Hellcat's invisibility is Su, which turns off in an anti-magic field. In 3.5, it was Ex, so does not turn off.
The table I ran it for was caster-heavy, but they still managed to survive. There were a couple of tough moments (such as the fact that one of the Hellcats was chewing on the cleric, so he couldn't cast Invis. Purge, and then after the sorcerer blasted the 'cat during a time when the magic was "on", it dropped the cleric, and went to chew on the sorcerer. Almost got him, too!
I still need to play this one... been offered a couple of times locally, too!
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Definitely use the 3.5 versio of the Hellcat, because otherwise the encounter won't work as intended (n.ote that the encounter CR is increase by two because of the circumstances).
Also, to answer Atticus:
1) Yes
2) Sure
3) The initial version indeed had 2 hellcats for the lower tier and 5 hellcats for the higher tier. Fortunately this was toned down.
4) Give them Dodge. In 3.5 you could Toughness multiple times, as it only gave 3 hp each time, no more.
5) The mooks are useless any way you put it. A great design flaw (not the first one for the writer *cough cough*)
And if you intend to at least try to challenge today's PCs, scrap the tactics (they are horrendous) and play the enemies to the best of your abilities. E.g. don't make the gebbite cleric start his round by summon monsters... Obscuring Mist is a lot better.
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For act 2 when the PCs enter the antimagic area, do spellcasters get a check to realize that magic doesn't work here before combat begins? The only other way I could see is that anyone with a belt of giant strength now feels more of the weight of what he carries.
I think this is a great opportunity to roleplay if you are prepared as GM.
Here is my take
Step1: Check magic items ahead of the game (could always look like a quick audit)
Step 2: Let them experience at least one anti-magic zone before Act 2
Step 3: What happens and if a spellcraft check is necessary depends heavily on items / circumstances
Some examples that would be an 'autosuccess'
Magic items that change dramatically if the Antimagic zone gets switched on: Examples - Ioun stones which circle around someone, magic light (if they march at night), other magic items which change dramatically appearance in a way that is hardly possible to miss.
Some examples that would be a perception / followed by spellcraft: Belt of Giant Strength, Headbands, etc.
Magic items you won't notice not functioning unless you use them: Bag of holding/Handy Haversack not opening, +3 sword reduced to a MW sword, CLW wand not working. And yes - this could be a quiver of abundant ammunition that is suddenly empty ...
Some other ways that could be autosuccess to notice what is going on but that you have to be careful as players will not like it:
Summoned creatures wink out. A summoner will notice that his Eidolon suddenly is gone (they come back !!)
Controlled Undead. If someone defeats the JuJu zombies in Act 1 by controlling them, then this will be a nasty surprise. This happened when I ran it the first time - with an Oracle of Bones not happy to be backstabbed bu three undead who were used as 'guards' trailing the character.
This list is in no means complete. I think it offers a lot of ways to roleplay and make it memorable. But it means preperation ahead of time - including a check for each character which item is the most likely one.
I plan to run this at Scotty's ahead of GenCon and will have a list with most important items and effects prepared by then. Yes - certain characters can be nerfed nearly completely.
But it is only one act - let them be paranoid that it might last the rest of the adventure ...