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Many would say that Ravenloft was the beginning of the end of 1e. More soap opera than adventure. Others would say the first true adventure with feeling and soul.
I come from a Hammer Horror (UK made horrors from the 60/70's) where vampire isn't a group of young pretty people outcast from society due to their beliefs. Angst ridden about having to take human life, and sighing a lot. My vampires kill without remorse and without silly clans and support networks (vampires anonymous anyone?)*. So Ravenloft appeals to me. I have DM'd it in 1e, 2e and 3e. As the edition number of D&D increase the "stupid factor" increases in the Ravenloft adventure. PC's become more powerful and rather than victory over a powerful foe, its clash of the titans or something similar to last Fridays wrestling. In short - crap.
Last weekend I DM'd Ravenloft again, no not with 4e - that would complete the silly cycle. With True20 Revised.
Now the d20 system is fantastic, and as the base for Pathfinder RPG unparalleled in function. But for horror the escalating Hit Points of PC's is a tension killer. Enter True20.
It took a few days to convert 1e Ravenloft to True20 but it was worth the time spent. I would say unreservedly that this DMing of Ravenloft was the most fun and rewarding for all. Players were on the edge of their seats, each darkened corner was death waiting to pounce.
Running and screaming is what horror is about and it's what we got by using True20 for Ravenloft.
Would I use True20 instead of Pathfinder RPG for my day to day fantasy roleplaying. Nope, sorry Green Ronin. But ANY fantasy horror, it'll be the first book I reach for.
S.
As an avid Ravenloft fan, I'd love to see your conversion work.
When I get a few minutes I'll post here. Not a lot to it really, the beauty of True20 I guess.
Cool. I got the chance to play True20 at GenCon2005 and it really does have an awesome feel to it. I need to get the revised core rulebook. I hope I get the chance to eventually GM it.
I DM'ed 3e Ravenloft for a couple years. I can definitely relate with the increase in player HP lessening the "scare" factor. But for our game, it actually followed a progression found in most Horror movie/tv show series. As the players power increased, the scare factor lessened, but in turn they became the hunters of horros they were meant to be. There's a reason the true Abraham Van Helsing doesnt pee himself and run away from every creature he hunts.
The campaign takes a natural progression from initial shock and horror, to more refined adventure themed in a dark, bleak world. On eo fht ebiggest things working against Ravenloft is that you can't continually scare the players. People overcome fears and adapt. Look at Ripley from the first Alien move, up until the third one (4th was crap-I pretend it doesnt exist). She started out scared, but eventually garnered the guts to attack the Aliens outright. It's the reason most series such as Friday the 13th generally became a running joke; fear doesnt persist.
Now, I honestly haven't seen this True20 system firsthand, but I have to admit that what you propose sounds very interesting. I do love to scare my players and see them genuinely fear for their characters safety, but eventually they lose their fear of the dark. You have to use the kinds of surprises and mind***ks that game systems can't really account for.
You can always throw larger, bigger, meaner monsters at them, but like with any RPG, they'll eventually stop getting scared and just work better tactics. Players are NOT afraid of numbers... For me, the true feeling of fear and dread in Ravenloft had nothing to do with edition, game mechanics, die rolls, anything like that. The core of fear is presented in how you DM the adventure, and an overwhelming fear of the unknown. We as humans have an instinctual fear of the unknown. You don't need die rolls for that. While I'm very interested to see your True20 Ravenloft, 3e Ravenloft worked just fine for me.
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Nice to see people have played (will play) Ravenloft. It is my all time favourite module.
I'll collect my scribbled notes and try to organise them into something legible for a post.
I will say however, that if you have the 3e Ravenloft then converting to True20 is completely straight forward. However at the time I felt that the 3e Ravenloft was written for 3e (duh). Meaning that the power creep for both PC's and foes was built into the encounters. That is why I started with the 1e original - I think even by the 2e version this creep was evident.
Don't think I'm saying that Ravenloft isn't excellent and fun in any edition of D&D, played it in them all and liked every one. What I found was that True20 had all the d20 type mechanics that my players liked and knew (skills, feats etc) but the introduction of a damage track rather than hit points seemed to really change the way they played. Retreat after investigation seemed far more common than I had seen before. The players who liked to optimise their character and would base sometimes actions on knowing that they could survive X number of hits because they had Y number of hit points lost that statistical safety net.
Was the adventure harder, I think so. Not everyone survived, but out of the 5 players only one died prior to the final encounter, and 2 died during the final encounter. As the game was run as a one off the players who died at the end thought their "sacrifice" to save the people of Barovia just added to the enjoyment of the adventure.
S.
I like the sound of this "Damage Track". There's a similar mechanic used in Star Wars Saga Edition and my players and I enjoy using it quite a bit. I like the idea of various effects and conditions affecting the players more than just HP/Attribute damage. It always killed my sense of belief when a player is alive and swinging at full strength, with just 2 HP left... As a DM, I can add all kinds of flavor and descriptors to various things that take them down the condition track. I'm going to look more into True20 next chance I get!
I like the sound of this "Damage Track". There's a similar mechanic used in Star Wars Saga Edition and my players and I enjoy using it quite a bit. I like the idea of various effects and conditions affecting the players more than just HP/Attribute damage. It always killed my sense of belief when a player is alive and swinging at full strength, with just 2 HP left... As a DM, I can add all kinds of flavor and descriptors to various things that take them down the condition track. I'm going to look more into True20 next chance I get!
Make sure you look into/buy the Revised Edition. The original comes with some fairly good genre-specific adventures, but the Revised comes with the previously published True20 Companion in the back of the book.
If your intention is to run a Ravenloft game, you'll particularly like pages 209 - 236 which deal with Horror gaming. It introduces horror-specific backgrounds, paths, advice, skills & feats, equipment, and more. Most interesting is that they introduce a mental health track in addition to the health track. As with the health track, it's relatively simple to use - everything from being startled to being driven insane...
It really seems as though the Horror section was written with Ravenloft in mind specifically. While it lacks the Dark Lords and some of the flavor you'll find only in the true Ravenloft books, it has rules to make converting from the 3/3.5e Ravenloft books a snap. The Revised book even has a few monsters in it to use to compare to the D20 Ravenloft critters to make conversions more logical.
I'm very much looking forward to Pathfinder, and will likely use that for my Fantasy game. As for Ravenloft, I have to agree with the original poster, True20 is a solid way to go...(Though I'm also tempted to run the old 2e stuff with a slightly house-ruled Castles & Crusades)
Ive always found while running Ravenloft its about the setting, dramatic tension, and keeping the players of track if you will. Ive run using 2nd ed rules as well as 3rd and while the power track does make it difficult if you can put on a good scene and manage the power scale you can keep the horror all the way up to level 20. and i would have to agree that the d20 ravenloft done by white wolf offers a lot of good advice about setting the scene and atmosphere as well as describing the scene as to give a sense of mystery and underlining horror.
And of course sometimes you get players who just don't do horror games :). A lot of the game depends on the players abilities to allow themselves to be immersed into that type of gameplay.
As an avid Ravenloft fan, I'd love to see your conversion work.When I get a few minutes I'll post here. Not a lot to it really, the beauty of True20 I guess.
The "damage track" rather than "hit points" just feels right for Ravenloft.
Long live Strahd,
S.
I would like to play ravenloft true20 this halloween - do you still have your conversion notes?
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I would like to run the original (1e) Ravenloft adventure using Castles & Crusades...
w, I can't believe that I missed out on this thread. Anyhow, I still have some of my 2e Ravenloft stuff still around somewhere, and I'm wondering how it would gel with Castles & Crusades as opposed to their Tainted Lands setting.
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I would like to run the original (1e) Ravenloft adventure using Castles & Crusades...w, I can't believe that I missed out on this thread. Anyhow, I still have some of my 2e Ravenloft stuff still around somewhere, and I'm wondering how it would gel with Castles & Crusades as opposed to their Tainted Lands setting.
I think any system that refrains from PC's with hp's equal to the national debt of an island nation with a little bit of DM work will come out fine. The characters and story is what makes Ravenloft - Ravenloft not the dice you roll.
This year I'm going to try Ravenloft in Chaosium's BRP.
S.
Hm. Another Black Rose conversion?