Map Pack --> Flip Map? Can it be done?

[aaron infante-levy]

I want to convert my map packs to flip maps, probably something more akin to a laminated roadmap. Has anyone attempted this?

I was researching pouch laminators, cold lamination presses, and self-adhesive lamination but couldn't find anything on the web.

I think this would be a great way to (a)Keep the map pack in good shape, (b)Make it easy to set up, and (c) Prevent the cardstock panels from sliding around.

Thanks,

Aaron

[Gamer Girrl]

aaron infante-levy wrote:

I want to convert my map packs to flip maps, probably something more akin to a laminated roadmap. Has anyone attempted this?

I was researching pouch laminators, cold lamination presses, and self-adhesive lamination but couldn't find anything on the web.

I think this would be a great way to (a)Keep the map pack in good shape, (b)Make it easy to set up, and (c) Prevent the cardstock panels from sliding around.

Thanks,

Aaron

Not sure where you live, but I'd try Kinko's or the like. I've laminated full maps, and cut up things, but I seem to recall they had a "softer" lamination that might work for this.

[aaron infante-levy]

Gamer Girrl wrote:

Not sure where you live, but I'd try Kinko's or the like. I've laminated full maps, and cut up things, but I seem to recall they had a "softer" lamination that might work for this.

Hey, we have Kinko's over in Hawaii too. :) I think I know the soft lamination you're talking about, maybe that could work. I was thinking of something like a segmented lamination so you could fold it up; as far as I know Kinko's doesn't do that. I'll double check though.

[Gamer Girrl]

aaron infante-levy wrote:

Gamer Girrl wrote:

Not sure where you live, but I'd try Kinko's or the like. I've laminated full maps, and cut up things, but I seem to recall they had a "softer" lamination that might work for this.

Hey, we have Kinko's over in Hawaii too. :) I think I know the soft lamination you're talking about, maybe that could work. I was thinking of something like a segmented lamination so you could fold it up; as far as I know Kinko's doesn't do that. I'll double check though.

LOL! I've gotten so used to so many folks being from Europe, Canada and South America, I don't assume (ass+u+me <G>)a fellow American any more :)

[aaron infante-levy]

Gamer Girrl wrote:

LOL! I've gotten so used to so many folks being from Europe, Canada and South America, I don't assume (ass+u+me <G>)a fellow American any more :)

I am a fellow North American. Living in stolen lands just like the rest of us. ;)

[The 8th Dwarf]

Gamer Girrl wrote:

LOL! I've gotten so used to so many folks being from Europe, Canada and South America, I don't assume (ass+u+me <G>)a fellow American any more :)

You forgot us Australians :-)

Sorry it’s a national paranoia - because we live at the "arse end of the world" as one of our Prime Ministers so succinctly put it, we get very worried that people will forget that we are here.

[Gamer Girrl]

The 8th Dwarf wrote:

Gamer Girrl wrote:

LOL! I've gotten so used to so many folks being from Europe, Canada and South America, I don't assume (ass+u+me <G>)a fellow American any more :)

You forgot us Australians :-)

Sorry it’s a national paranoia - because we live at the "arse end of the world" as one of our Prime Ministers so succinctly put it, we get very worried that people will forget that we are here.

::laughing:: Hey, at least I didn't pull a typical Americanism of saying Americans and the rest of the world :) Does make me wonder if we've many folks from China, Japan or anywhere else in the orient ... it's fun to be chatting with folks from all over for this li'l California gal :)

[The 8th Dwarf]

Gamer Girrl wrote:

The 8th Dwarf wrote:

Gamer Girrl wrote:

LOL! I've gotten so used to so many folks being from Europe, Canada and South America, I don't assume (ass+u+me <G>)a fellow American any more :)

You forgot us Australians :-)

Sorry it’s a national paranoia - because we live at the "arse end of the world" as one of our Prime Ministers so succinctly put it, we get very worried that people will forget that we are here.

::laughing:: Hey, at least I didn't pull a typical Americanism of saying Americans and the rest of the world :) Does make me wonder if we've many folks from China, Japan or anywhere else in the orient ... it's fun to be chatting with folks from all over for this li'l California gal :)

D&D was supposed to be big in Japan in the 90's but I don’t see much about it now...

Most of the people with Korean, or Chinese, ancestry that I know are into the card games but that could just be the people I know and not indicative of a people as a whole.

[aaron infante-levy]

I haven't been able to find what I'm looking for at any copy centers yet, but I know it's got to be out there. Theoretically it should be possible even with hot lamination as (I'm assuming) the map pack cards aren't printed with an inkjet, so there's no worry about hot lamination destroying the ink.

I talked with a local laminator and he said he can do 3mil on a 48x36" map, but that's still bulky. However, if it's under 25" he could do 1.7 mil, which is way better. Still, it's a single sheet lamination so the folding will be not so great. I'm thinking my best bet is going to be finding a pre-laminated folding sheet (say, all black), and then using self-adhesive lamination to stick the map pack cards to it.

I just think the flip maps are superior to the map packs in everyway, and can't wait to convert mine over.

My quest continues. Wish me luck.

The 8th Dwarf wrote:

Most of the people with Korean, or Chinese, ancestry that I know are into the card games but that could just be the people I know and not indicative of a people as a whole.

I hear Jackie Chan has an explanation for why Chinese people are more into card games than rpgs. ;) (sarcasm)

Seriously, one member of our gaming group is Chinese (born in China) and her sorcerer launched 7 fireballs into a crowded room, toasting 8 hill giants. I have never felt so ineffective playing a fighter, but the look on her face was sooo worth it. She likes her fireballs. :)

[lynora]

Well, I'm definitely interested in finding out if you figure out a way to do it. The best I've been able to do is gluing them to posterboard with spray adhesive, but the edges keep curling up.

[aaron infante-levy]

lynora wrote:

Well, I'm definitely interested in finding out if you figure out a way to do it. The best I've been able to do is gluing them to posterboard with spray adhesive, but the edges keep curling up.

actually, i can help you on that one, being an architecture student i do tons of spray adhesive to posterboard, however i wouldn't recommend it for something as bulky as the cardstock used for the map packs. i think self-lamination is the way to go with what you're doing.

i've been considering using 2-ply mat board (comes in 32x40"), and lightly scoring it, but it only comes in white and it doesn't have a glossy finish (i think a glossy black would look best).

[aaron infante-levy]

I learned that the process to create foldable laminated products like menus/maps is patented, so family business laminators & office stores (even chains like kinkos) don't have the technology/legal rights to create such products. At least, that's my understanding.

So I'm going to have to simulate what the pros can do. :)

I found 2 ply black mat board, and I'm thinking of using the thinnest (3 mil is best I can find so far) self-adhesive laminating pouches to stick map pack cards to it. The plan is that where the board folds is where the edge of the lamination meets. If necessary I can lightly score along that edge.

It won't be as clean-looking as I was hoping, but I think it's the cheapest method and one which it will be pretty easy for other folks interested in doing a similar conversion.

[Mosaic]

Just a thought ... use clear packing tape on the back of the cards, then run it through a big laminating machine. If you want it to fold nicely, leave 1/8-1/4" between the cards where you want it to fold (still use clear packing tape on the back, just leave a little gap), and laminate. The laminate ought to be thin enough for it to fold nicely if there isn't anything under that spot. Disclaimer: I'm not actually sure this would work.

As far as laminating goes, I usually go to teacher supply stores (like Lakeshore). They tend to have bign self-serve laminators for like 25¢ per foot. Not sure how thick the laminate is, but it's pretty thin and rolls nicely.

[Gamer Girrl]

Been thinking about it, what about using clear shelf paper? I've used it for lots of different projects, it's definitely sturdy, cleanable with water, and remains sealed once you put it together. Also, you can pretty easily peal it apart until you get it just the way you want it.

[aaron infante-levy]

I'm thinking of doing 2 double-sided conversions: Ancient Forest/Countryside & Fortress/Tournament. I'm planning on using 16 cards from each pack in a 4 x 4 card layout, so the converted flip map should measure 20" by 32" (maybe with an added inch to account for fold lines), comparable to the Paizo flip maps of 24 x 30, and it will fold down to the size of one 8 x 5 card. Ideally this will allow them to be used in various configurations, so you could just use the ruins or the fairy circle if you wanted.

Mosaic wrote:

Just a thought ... use clear packing tape on the back of the cards, then run it through a big laminating machine. If you want it to fold nicely, leave 1/8-1/4" between the cards where you want it to fold (still use clear packing tape on the back, just leave a little gap), and laminate. The laminate ought to be thin enough for it to fold nicely if there isn't anything under that spot. Disclaimer: I'm not actually sure this would work.

Great idea! I'm not sure how packing tape stands up to hot lamination? Since I can't use 3 mil laminate (see below), then I'd have to bring the set up (taped together cards) to the local laminator and that sounds like a headache. I don't even know if it's possible? Still, you've made me curious to want to try it! :)

Mosaic wrote:

As far as laminating goes, I usually go to teacher supply stores (like Lakeshore). They tend to have bign self-serve laminators for like 25¢ per foot. Not sure how thick the laminate is, but it's pretty thin and rolls nicely.

It's the standard 3 mil stuff which rolls great and folds terrible (even when just sticking to itself); hence the proprietary process to make laminated menus/roadmaps.

Gamer Girrl wrote:

Been thinking about it, what about using clear shelf paper? I've used it for lots of different projects, it's definitely sturdy, cleanable with water, and remains sealed once you put it together. Also, you can pretty easily peal it apart until you get it just the way you want it.

I've never worked with contact paper, but it sounds like a good idea. Can it be folded? How thick is it? And can it be stuck to itself?

[Gamer Girrl]

aaron infante-levy wrote:

Gamer Girrl wrote:

Been thinking about it, what about using clear shelf paper? I've used it for lots of different projects, it's definitely sturdy, cleanable with water, and remains sealed once you put it together. Also, you can pretty easily peal it apart until you get it just the way you want it.

I've never worked with contact paper, but it sounds like a good idea. Can it be folded? How thick is it? And can it be stuck to itself?

Yes, it can be folded, I'm just not sure how "tight" a crease will work.

It's pretty thin, actually, but very sturdy. At a totally arbitrary guess a piece of paper sandwiched between two sheets of contact paper is about as thick as gluing two sheets of paper together.

Yes, it does stick to itself, very nicely. But as I mentioned, the stick is not so harsh that you can't repair a misaligned piece. Eventually the stick becomes permanent, but it is easy to work with.

[Mosaic]

aaron infante-levy wrote:

Great idea! I'm not sure how packing tape stands up to hot lamination? Since I can't use 3 mil laminate (see below), then I'd have to bring the set up (taped together cards) to the local laminator and that sounds like a headache. I don't even know if it's possible? Still, you've made me curious to want to try it! :)

I may go by Lakeshore tomorrow to laminate some posters. I'll try to laminate some taped-together index cards and see how it works. And ask about thickness.

[aaron infante-levy]

Gamer Girrl wrote:

Yes, it can be folded, I'm just not sure how "tight" a crease will work.

It's pretty thin, actually, but very sturdy. At a totally arbitrary guess a piece of paper sandwiched between two sheets of contact paper is about as thick as gluing two sheets of paper together.

Yes, it does stick to itself, very nicely. But as I mentioned, the stick is not so harsh that you can't repair a misaligned piece. Eventually the stick becomes permanent, but it is easy to work with.

I'm going to give contact paper a try over the weekend and see what happens. Thanks Gamer Girrl! :)

Mosaic wrote:

I may go by Lakeshore tomorrow to laminate some posters. I'll try to laminate some taped-together index cards and see how it works. And ask about thickness.

Look forward to hearing how it goes for you. Being in Hawaii we don't have a Lakeshore type store - one of the few mainland amenities we lack, along with In-and-Out. But I think there is a new laminator that I can use (or talk my way into using) as an architecture student.

[Mosaic]

aaron infante-levy wrote:

Mosaic wrote:

I may go by Lakeshore tomorrow to laminate some posters. I'll try to laminate some taped-together index cards and see how it works. And ask about thickness.

Look forward to hearing how it goes for you. Being in Hawaii we don't have a Lakeshore type store - one of the few mainland amenities we lack, along with In-and-Out. But I think there is a new laminator that I can use (or talk my way into using) as an architecture student.

Okay, I used clear packing tape to tape 4 index cards together. I left no space, 1/16", and 1/8" between the cards. Then I laminated the whole thing at Lakeshore. I asked and they said it was 1.5 mm, which sounds right because it is pretty thin. much thinner than restaurant menu laminate. The packing tape held up fine - it didn't melt or interfere with the laminating or anything bad. Obviously the no-space cards don't fold well. Both the 1/16" and 1/8" fold fine, though the 1/8" is a pretty big gap. I think I like 1/16 best. One other interesting observation - because the laminate comes off a roll, everything comes out a little curved. By pure chance I stuck the cards in wide rather than long, so the curve goes across all the cards at once not one at a time. As a result, the curve also goes perpendicular to the spaces, not parallel to them. The spaces still fold fine, and when I unfold, the curve causes the cards to snap back into place and return to the original shape instead of the fold still being there (the one ugly thing about Flip-Mats). Serendipity.

[Sharoth]

Cool!

[aaron infante-levy]

Interesting, yeah 1.5 mil seems perfect. Now I just have to find a lamination service here in the islands and I'll be set. Thanks for posting the results of your footwork Mosaic! :)