Hey all, just trying to get some opinions here and thoughts. Simple put, I think the gist of both of these PrC's are great, but IMO they suck in the long run.
I guess in a nutshell, I would like to know if merging the two classes into one (possibly removing a thing or two in the process) would be overpowering, at least to the general consensus. I think compared to alot of other prc's, these are weak. Just throwing it out there and I could maybe post quickly what I was thinking if that helps. Any input would be great, thank you.
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Obviously, you need to speak with your DM as well, but...
Post your vision for the "combination" and I'd love to take a look at it. There's almost always a Paladin in my campaigns and after Wizard, Paladin is my favorite to run when I get the opportunity to sit on the Player's side of the DM screen. It's always nice to see different builds for Paladins.
-W. E. Ray
Well, I suppose here is my rundown on this. I am a DM most of the time as well, so that part is not of worry at the moment lol. Keep in mind a few minor things may need adjusted, think I got the right progression for saves etc. Anyways here goes it:
Champion of Bahamut
Self-explanatory, j/k add flavor later, follower of the deity of good dragons who gains special abilities to combat evil.
Requirements
To qualify to become a Champion of Bahamut, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Lawful Good
Race: Any
Sex: Any
Craft (Armorsmithing): 5+ ranks
Diplomacy: 5+ ranks
Knowledge (Arcana): 4+ ranks
Feats: Dragonfriend
Language: Draconic
Special: Must of single-handedly slain a Red Dragon of Juvenile or higher age.
Class skills
The Champion of Bahamut class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are: Bluff (Int), Concentrate (Con), Craft (armor) (Int), Craft (Weapon) (Int), Diplomacy (Chr), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Chr), Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Nobility/Royalty) (Int), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis).
Skills Points Each Level: 2+Int
Class features
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Champion of Bahamut gains proficiency with Simple and Martial Weapons. Also gain proficiency with light armor, medium armor, heavy armor, and all shields (including tower shields).
Hit Die: d10.
Class Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spells per Day
1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Craft Platinum Armor, Immune to Frightful Presence, Smite Evil Dragon 1/day
2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Dragon Senses, Imperious Aura, Hoard +1 Divine casting level
3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 Combat Feat, Platinum Scales
4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Dragonwrack, Smite Evil Dragon 2/day +1 Divine casting level
5th +5 +4 +2 +2 Bahamuts Grace, Hoard
6th +6 +5 +2 +2 Combat Feat, Dragon Senses +1 Divine casting level
7th +7 +5 +2 +2 Dragonwrack, Smite Evil Dragon 3/day
8th +8 +6 +2 +2 Platinum Scales, Dragon Senses, Hoard +1 Divine casting level
9th +9 +6 +3 +3 Combat Feat, Charisma Bonus
10th +10 +7 +3 +3 Dragonwrack, Smite Evil Dragon 4/day, True Seeing +1 Divine casting levels
Spell Progression: Champion of Bahamut gains a Divine caster level every even number level which adds a level to any existing Divine spell casting class, if the Champion of Bahamut has one.
Platinum Armor: you may forge armor out of the scales of a slain Red Dragon of at least Juvenile age. When completed, the scales change to platinum. You may only have one suit of Platinum Armor at a time & it corrodes away if anyone but you wears it. The armor has the following statistics: Armor bonus +8, max Dex bonus +4, Armor check penalty –1, 20% Arcane spell failure, no loss of movement, 25 pounds, considered Masterwork
Immune to Frightful Presence: The champion of Bahamut if Immune to the Frightful Presence of Dragons.
Smite Evil Dragon: The Champion of Bahamut may smite evil dragons (with any normal attack) 1/day beginning at first level. The champion of Bahamut gains more smite abilities as they level and can smite evil dragons 2/day at 4th level, 3/day at 7th level and 4/day at 10th. The Champion of Bahamut adds his Charisma Bonus to the Smite attack and his Champion of Bahamut levels to damage. This does stack with Paladin levels.
Dragon Senses: At 2nd level, The Champion of Bahamut will begin to develop Draconic Senses. At 2nd level the Champion gains low-light vision (2x as far as human), and Darkvision 60’. At 6th level the Champion gains 2x normal vision as human, low-light vision (4x as human) and Darkvision 120’. At 8th level the Champion gains Blindsense out to 30’.
Imperious Aura: At 2nd level the Champion gains Imperious Aura. This aura grants the Champion of Bahamuts Class level to Charisma checks when dealing with dragons and draconic creatures.
Hoard: The character is granted a pile of platinum coins from Bahamuts lair on Mount Celestia. The pile is equivalent to 200x Champions Character Level at 2nd level. 500x Champions Character Level at 5th and 800 x Champions Character Level at 8th. The character cannot spend this coin frivolously. (Basically used for good causes which include upgrading gear etc).
Combat Feat: At 3rd, 6th and 9th level the Champion gains access to a bonus feat derived from the Fighter Feat list and Draconic Feat that may be used to combat Dragons. The Champion still has to qualify for the feat normally.
Platinum Scales: The Champion skin becomes tougher and takes on a platinum sheen. At 3rd level the Champion gains a Natural Armor bonus of +1, or its existing Natural Armor improves by +1. At 8th level, the Natural Armor bonus is a total of +2.
Dragonwrack: Starting at 4th level the Champion gains the Dragonwrack ability. At 4th level whenever a Champion succeeds in striking an Evil Dragon, the dragons takes an additional +2d6 damage. Whenever an evil dragon strikes the Champion it will take 1d6 damage. Half of this damage is permanent hit point drain. At 7th level the damage increases to +3d6/1d6. At 10th it is increased to +4d6/2d6.
Bahamuts Grace: At 5th level the Champions gains a bonus to his saving throws equal to his Charisma Modifier when making saves against Evil Dragons. This does stack with a Paladins Divine Grace Ability.
Charisma Bonus: At 9th level the Champion gains a +2 Charisma Bonus
True Seeing: At 10th level the Champion gains True Seeing useable 1/day. Once activated, the effect last for 1 hour or until deactivated.
I personally like it alot. I have seen a few attempts online at this and if anybody thinks this is overpowering, you should have seen those ones. Things to keep in mind is that the earliest this could be taken is level 8, and yeah we got some nice stuff on here but by time you max out you'd be 18 at earliest and with that in mind, not to bad at all.
The one thing I took out requirement wise was the have two vows from BoED. I know it represented the dedication to Bahamut, but it was a little much. Dragonfriend is enough IMO to show dedication to the cause. The feat selection is a little more broad as well as most feats in BoED are not great, and I figured as it seems a little more combat oriented that the fighter/draconic feats would work better.
I also contemplated changed the slaying of dragon thing, to any chromatic of young adult or older (even it out for reds) but I like the idea that reds are supposed to be the epitome of chromatic, hence the greatest enemy and a greater test.
Anyways, go from there lol :D
Well it's been a few days and I haven't seen much yet. I'm a little pressed for time, not badly but the sooner I get some feedback the faster I can get crackin with things. If anybody has time to check this out and get back to me, I's appreciate it greatly. :D, Just a reminder I guess lol. Thanks ahead of time.
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Well it's been a few days and I haven't seen much yet. I'm a little pressed for time, not badly but the sooner I get some feedback the faster I can get crackin with things. If anybody has time to check this out and get back to me, I's appreciate it greatly. :D, Just a reminder I guess lol. Thanks ahead of time.
Your inferior save progression is a little messed up -- it's 0/0/1/1/1/2/2/2/3/3 (one-third of level rounded down).
Other than that, it looks like a fairly playable, focused dragonslaying-paladin PrC.
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Wow, I had forgotten about this Thread, sorry.
I like it; have fun showing it to your DM!
I don't like the Dragonwrack thing, too "4E" feeling for me. I'd recommend substituting that with a Favored Enemy: Dragons kind of thing that builds every five levels without adding new favored enemies.
I like the Platinum armor thing LOTS but I'd probably allow any defeated Chromatic dragon, not just Red. And you should include a ritual that changes it from Chromatic to Platinum, not too mechanically different from getting a Familiar. There is precident for this kind of thing -- in the old DragonLance stuff the Draconians were transformed from Metallic eggs to Chromatic hatchlings, or something like that.
-W. E. Ray
Thank you two so far. Yes, the save progression was probably jacked slightly, I was trying to go off of memory and you are right, it needs to be changed, thanks for pointing that out.
Molech, thank's for the critique. Actually, the dragonwrack I put in as it was what came out of the book, I didn't add anything to the abilities at all on this. As far as the Armor thing, it is a ritual to make it, I was short on time so the flavor in the entry is lacking somewhat. I believe it is a 2 days per character level working the armor, without stopping besides eating and sleeping. When done it's got the stats of what I put in the first entry, only the champion could done it and if destroyed, could make some later. It can also be enhanced using the standard item creation stuff (to enchant the armor etc).
So that was my bad on time restraints but hopefully that little tidbit is helpful, everything else is pretty self-explainatory to most. With the selection of dragon for the armor, I think there may be two reasons for red (or 3 if you take into account what I put in before). The Young Adult selection would be ok but whites and blacks don't hold much of a candle to blue, green and reds at that stage. A juvenille red is actually much stronger than white and black at those categories, and blue and green are about the same. A little tweeking maybe and that can be fixed, I was up in the air about that one. Another flavor thing so peeps may remember over the years, I believe the reds scales are the most armor like and often described as steel plates. That may be another reason. Anyways, I'll edit the saves to get them correct and that's all i got for now, thank you two.
Found out I couldn't edit the post to fix the saving throws, but that's ok. Just thought I'd throw this out one last time to get any last minute information. If anybody has anything else, feel free to comment as I won't be looking at the thread pretty soon anymore. :D