It also has to be said that the mythos has a draw to it. If you say 'we are going to do a mythos inspired Adventure path, you can draw gamers from numerous traditions to your product, not just hard core DnD players.
It can't be! FHTAGN! The Madness of it!
It also has to be said that the mythos has a draw to it. If you say 'we are going to do a mythos inspired Adventure path, you can draw gamers from numerous traditions to your product, not just hard core DnD players.It can't be! FHTAGN! The Madness of it!
Madness? THIS... ...IS... ...PAIZO!
Creative Director
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What it really boils down to is the fact that, like him or not, Lovecraft was the most influential writer of horror of the 20th century. His stories have inspired a HUGE amount of sci-fi and horror and fantasy, either directly or indirectly, with people he inspired directly inspiring others in turn (Stephen King and Ray Bradbury and Robert Bloch and Robert E. Howard and Fritz Leiber are great examples here). He created what is, in a lot of ways, a uniquely American horror mythos that exists apart from horror mythos like vampires, witches, mummies, werewolves, and other classic horrors that date back much longer. Honestly... I think D&D owes more to Lovecraft than it does to Tolkien.
He created what is, in a lot of ways, a uniquely American horror mythos that exists apart from horror mythos like vampires, witches, mummies, werewolves, and other classic horrors that date back much longer.
Pfft...Lovecraft's work was all derivative of the Mad Arab...
KIDDING!
For the non-Lovecraftreading among us (me, I guess), is there a primer of Lovecraftian elements that would make up this hypothetical aberrationesque AP?
Is it just like any other D&D adventure but with fungus men instead of kobolds?
He created what is, in a lot of ways, a uniquely American horror mythos that exists apart from horror mythos like vampires, witches, mummies, werewolves, and other classic horrors that date back much longer.Pfft...Lovecraft's work was all derivative of the Mad Arab...
KIDDING!
For the non-Lovecraftreading among us (me, I guess), is there a primer of Lovecraftian elements that would make up this hypothetical aberrationesque AP?
Is it just like any other D&D adventure but with fungus men instead of kobolds?
As far as a primar goes, you really could do worse than buying a copy of call of cthulhu. It is one of the better games ever released and if you can spare money for the one time perchase of a core book it is very worth it.
Will, fungus men have turned up in the mythos, i would have to say no. To be honest, lovecraftian horror is not a nature fit with traditional adventuring, it works much better in consort with investagative and social play.
While combat can be relatively common, encounters with the mythos proper, rather than those who worship it or have been damaged by it, should be increadably rare, breif and deadly to bring home the danger of it. The Focus needs to be less on Killing things and taking their stuff and more on character developement as your character unravels at the seems, trying to keep his mind in one peice.
That said, encounters like the Graul farm would make exilent set pieces in a Mythos game. The secret in a DnD game would be to provide a strong set of mortal antagonists who provide a challenge throughout the campaign and have them serve the major antagonist. The PCs should only fight powerful mythos enties perhapes three of four times in the campaign, perhapes with one or two encounters with lesser servitor and independant races as well. Those fights with Powerful entities should almost certainly be so dangerous that the best way to deal with the encounter is to run away.
Madness? THIS... ...IS... ...PAIZO!
Dungeon? This is Pathfindaaa!
I would agree. How many Metalica songs mention beholders or beholder related mythos?
Uhm, Excuse me? Eye of the Beholder!
;-)
For the non-Lovecraftreading among us (me, I guess), is there a primer of Lovecraftian elements that would make up this hypothetical aberrationesque AP?Is it just like any other D&D adventure but with fungus men instead of kobolds?
It's like any other D&D adventure, except instead of gaining experience points, you lose sanity points ;-)
I liked one quote from CoC d20, dealing about monsters. It goes something like this: "Monsters in Call of Cthulhu do not have the same role as monsters in D&D. Monsters are not there to challenge the characters. Monsters are there to kill. If a monster appears, someone dies."
A proper CoC game doesn't really play like your average D&D game, where you hear about a critter and come running in order to kill it. You will run, of course, but away. Like in D&D, those things are superhuman and supernatural. Unlike D&D, CoC characters aren't.
CoC is best when you use mystery, investigation, and pure horror.
That said, Mythos elements can totally work for D&D. It won't quite be the same as a CoC game, but it's great to shake players from their "we're the heroes, nothing can stop us, nothing can faze us" mentality. Kinda like Skinsaw and Hook Mountain did.
The ghouls from Skinsaw had a vaguely Mythos element to them as well.
I didn't think it was vaguely at all! Creepy dang mythos ghouls!The ghouls from Skinsaw had a vaguely Mythos element to them as well.
Yes and no, the ghoul plague element was cool, but that owes more to Richard Matheson than H.P.Lovecraft. Mythos ghouls are more like aberations or monsterous humaniods than undead. But there where many elements such as the asylem visit, the haunted house, the serial killing and the battle in the clocktower which draw to greater and lesser extents on the mythos.
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Madness? THIS... ...IS... ...PAIZO!
Dungeon? This is Pathfindaaa!
I would agree. How many Metalica songs mention beholders or beholder related mythos?
Uhm, Excuse me? Eye of the Beholder!
;-)
For the non-Lovecraftreading among us (me, I guess), is there a primer of Lovecraftian elements that would make up this hypothetical aberrationesque AP?Is it just like any other D&D adventure but with fungus men instead of kobolds?
It's like any other D&D adventure, except instead of gaining experience points, you lose sanity points ;-)
I liked one quote from CoC d20, dealing about monsters. It goes something like this: "Monsters in Call of Cthulhu do not have the same role as monsters in D&D. Monsters are not there to challenge the characters. Monsters are there to kill. If a monster appears, someone dies."
A proper CoC game doesn't really play like your average D&D game, where you hear about a critter and come running in order to kill it. You will run, of course, but away. Like in D&D, those things are superhuman and supernatural. Unlike D&D, CoC characters aren't.
CoC is best when you use mystery, investigation, and pure horror.
That said, Mythos elements can totally work for D&D. It won't quite be the same as a CoC game, but it's great to shake players from their "we're the heroes, nothing can stop us, nothing can faze us" mentality. Kinda like Skinsaw and Hook Mountain did.
One way of running Mythos is D&D is simply to have the mythos monsters be substantially higher CR than the characters. AT least 5 levels high should do the trick. The PCs will likely be dumb once and try to stand and fight. Then at least one will dies and they MIGHT learn. Or might not. In which case, another dies.
I played Call of Cthulhu once. I was probably the absolute wrong person to be playing it 'cause I had no idea what was going on at all during it. It was kind of like when I read that Amy Tan novel...
I am reminded, though, of an awesome CoC campaign I got to flip through once: The Masks of Nyar...umm...lath...umm...tep...something something. I loved the world-travelling investigation aspect of it and the horrific fates of the previous investigator team really drove home the horror of the monsters without having to murder all the PCs.
I'd forgotten all about that one. The idea of an aberration-based AP doesn't seem so difficult now.
Masks is ment to be very good.
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We've already done a pirate AP with a fair amount of ocean stuff back in Dungeon (Savage Tide) so it'll probably be a while before we go back to that scene. When I say "aquatic" I mean mostly underwater.
I was afraid you'd say that. I understand the reasoning but I was still hoping for something else since we'll never see anything like the Shackled City book for Savage Tide (I assume).
Or, you could write the Adventure Path for . . . 5th to 20th, rather then 1st to 15th. :D
We could certainly do that. Of course, the fear there is that we'd be shooting ourself in the foot by leaving out players and GMs who want to start at 1st level.
Actually, I think I would really like this. Your players guide could have a background for the group as a whole that the team picks, in order to reflect their history "off screen", prior to 5th level. Sort of like the team benefits in PHB II. This would also let you start an adventure path "in media res", so to speak, if you've had interest in doing that.
Aboleths are probably the best candidate for an aberration-themed AP using aberrations from the SRD, frankly... but they come with their own host of problems. Namely: They're aquatic. So suddenly you don't have an aberration AP but an aquatic AP, and an aquatic AP is a pretty unusual and strange concept, and one we would never consider doing when we're in "Reboot" conditions. That said, I love me them aboleths and an aquatic-themed AP sounds VERY interesting to me...
I think this might be overstating the case a bit. Just because Aboleths are the main baddies, doesn't mean you have an "aquatic AP". You might have some major encounters taking place in/near a body of water (likely a small, Underdark body of water), but that would be it.
The ghouls from Skinsaw had a vaguely Mythos element to them as well.
I'm no Mythos buff (I know, it's really surprising if you consider the state of my sanity), but into the Darklands has a Ghould Nation I think is heavily inspired by the Mythos.
The Masks of Nyar...umm...lath...umm...tep...something something.
It's Nyarlathotep. The Crawling Chaos. Most of the great old ones have awesome names like that. Best one is Azathoth, the Seething Nuclear Chaos.
I have, by the way, a similar moniker as well. People call me Silly Giggling Kae'Yoss.
The ghouls from Skinsaw had a vaguely Mythos element to them as well.
I'm no Mythos buff (I know, it's really surprising if you consider the state of my sanity), but into the Darklands has a Ghould Nation I think is heavily inspired by the Mythos.
The Masks of Nyar...umm...lath...umm...tep...something something.It's Nyarlathotep. The Crawling Chaos. Most of the great old ones have awesome names like that. Best one is Azathoth, the Seething Nuclear Chaos.
I have, by the way, a similar moniker as well. People call me Silly Giggling Kae'Yoss.
Yes, that is very dreamlandsesque and also like 'rats in the walls.'
Canniblism was a major idea in a lot of lovecrafts work that touched only lightly on the mythos. You could likely make an arguement that lovecraft really created to mythos, one for ghouls and one for the great old ones and outer gods.
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My current aboleth campaign is very much an aberration based campaign.
Aside from material from Lords of Madness, I have recently begun seeding some Pathfinder Lovecraftian critters in. The response to a gug was . . . enjoyable. I await the response to a shoggoth next session.
As for adventure structure, using Lovecraftian monsters and elements of unearthly horror does not restrict encounters to just investigation and fleeing from said monsters. You can structure a straight up dungeon crawl and just replace goblins and what not with aberrant horrors. The biggest issue is the "boxed text", which can rapidly turn into self-parody and tedium as you try to speak all of the relevant adjectives and adverbs to players, interspersed with game terminology, and hoping to keep game flow and mood going constantly. I am realizing that it is best to keep such to a minimum, and rely on constant changes of direction in critter abilities and what it takes to counter them to produce the mood.
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I like to think that a call of cthulhu camapign has two diffrent styles of play. Both of these depend on the type of game you wish to play or enjoy playing.
The first style would be the classic humans are insignificant to the cosmos.Human minds just cant grasp the true nature of the universe and if we even catch a small glimps of this it will break us. The mythos cannot be defeated nor cares that is is trying to be defeated by us.To mythos deities human investigators are like misqitos attempting to kill them by draining their blood.An impossible task. This campaign focuses on investigation, because its structure rewards those that think problems through instead of using brute force.
The second style is the pulpy two fisted action story.In this campagian model its all about action. Investigation is still important, but takes a back seat to high speed chases and shoot outs with insane cultists.In this model the mythos can be beaten, its not a hopless cause and man will rise against and prevail against the evil in the world.
Perhaps, a third style that finds its self in a middle ground might be the optimal model. Personally I find the mythos to be fascinating. But I prefer my CoC games to be a little more on the pulp side of things.
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I did try a very short lived aberrations game. It featured Mind Flayers galore. Essentially the Mind Flayers had won. Surface civilization had fallen and the Mind Flayers were the all powerful masters. The PC races were essentially slaves and cattle for the Mind Flayers.
The game started with the PCs as naked slaves living in a filthy muddy pen providing manual labor for their masters. They were contacted by an underground rebellion and had to escape their slavery to meet the rebels. Then they had to try and destroy an entire planet society of Mind Flayers.
The game ended before we made it to lvl 5-7 somewhere in there. Too many deaths and too doom and gloom. If I had to do it over I would have made it earlier in the Mind Flayer society when the PCs had a better chance. Started them as one of the few free peoples left and had them encounter minions of the Mind Flayers first and the Mind Flayers at about lvl 7 for the first time.
Or I would try another more Mythos based adventure. A cannibal cult in a small port city is killing church and civic leaders. They are in fact worshipers of a small Aboleth cult. Skinsaw Murders and Hook Mounatin Massacre would fit in perfect. The adventure concludes with the PCs shutting down a portal that would allow a Mythos god to enter the world.
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I think this might be overstating the case a bit. Just because Aboleths are the main baddies, doesn't mean you have an "aquatic AP". You might have some major encounters taking place in/near a body of water (likely a small, Underdark body of water), but that would be it.
The Aboleth itself might exist in a dark, wet place, but it's minions and enslaved creatures could exist right up there on the surface, in a little fishing community, where all the locals have a peculiar 'look' to them that travellers sometimes comment on...
The AP could start with encounters with the community, which quickly goes sideways, as large numbers of people in the community are in some way working for their deep dark lord. The first adventure deals with saving the non-co-opted townspeople from their fellows, some of whom have just been deceived into serving the cultists, but others of who are related by blood to 'things from the deep' and have deep one traits (and their own sorcerous bloodline, derived from that bloodline) and are led by adepts in service to That Which Waits.
After the town is saved, the second adventure could lead into the sea caves beneath the bluffs outside the town, where the first cultists where said to have met the holy messengers. Cue an adventure to fight the more strongly deep one-blooded cultists, who, like Yuan-Ti, have 'abominations' among them with fish-like traits, and sometimes even tentacles, as well as unusual powers. Not being true Deep Ones, these beings aren't aquatic, and the caves are damp, and have many brackish pools, but aren't underwater (although they might require a swim here and there to get from chamber to chamber, since all of the 'half-Deep Ones' are good swimmers). Standard dungeon crawl, in other aspects.
Further APs could lead deeper into the underground to discover the Aboleth responsible for this cult, and discover in it's lair that this isn't some dark nasty 'god,' just one of a *race* of such creatures, and that it was in communication with others of it's race, who were setting this town up as a trading post of their own secret 'nation' within the civilized nations of Golarion, leading to further adventures to other towns, perhaps even some 'towns' like Absalom, where the docks community has a few workers with a 'look' about them that the PCs now recognize, leading them into the sewers beneath Absolom to attempt to stop this second Aboleth, only to find out that the 2nd Aboleth was smart enough to set a trap for them, and get them arrested by the city guard. Now they have to have a social adventure of sorts, to get themselves out of official custody, not knowing who in the city guard and official ranks are in thrall to the creature they seek!
Blah-blah, final confrontation with a circle of Aboleth elders far beneath the city who are preparing to send out Aboleth to build cults and bases all over the coasts of Avistan and Garundi, with the first town visited being just the 'test run' to see if they could co-opt an entire community.
Various aquatic stuff *could* be added, such as a deal with Deep One / Sahuagins to target merchant ships that aren't part of the Aboleth's trading coalition. The trading coalition isn't something as banal as a financial arrangement, but is being taken over to ferry underdark generated drugs around the world, drugs that make the addicts more susceptible to Aboleth control, and even transform the worst of the addicts into half-Deep Ones!
Or something much cleverer. This just kind of poured out stream-of-consciousness style and desperately could use a touch up.
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Contributor
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Drat, when I saw the title,
I thought someone was going to demand a flumph AP.
I really love aberrations, particularly aboleth and I think they'd make a killer centerpiece for an adventure path.
What an awesome climax to have an underwater delve into some sunken Azlantan ruin- or even a wierd aboleth city- with air pockets for slaves and thralls and stuff.
Actually, the fact that aboleth are aquatic, I see as advantageous. As you don't want PCs fighting aboleth the whole time. It kinda forces the aboleth to develop thralls and allies and slaves and weird equipment and all sorts of villanous things to see their dark plots through.
If by flumph, you mean those weird long nosed dreamlands things, then I hear by demand it. Though i do, i expect no one to listen.
Flumph are a much maligned pathetic D&D monster, they look like floating yellow jellyfish/pancakes and can't move if flipped over.
I'm not sure why, but i was thinking of Buopoth from the dreamlands, and thinking they shared the name.
They could very well have, I'm not familiar with them so I couldn't say! But, yeah I think a distinct 'no-flumph' attitude has been displayed by the staff, and while their great in OOTS, their not for Golarion.
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Creative Director
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They could very well have, I'm not familiar with them so I couldn't say! But, yeah I think a distinct 'no-flumph' attitude has been displayed by the staff, and while their great in OOTS, their not for Golarion.
Well... since I greenlit the triumphant return of the flumph into 3.5 in Dungeon magazine a few years back (thanks for the cool adventure, Tim!), I would say that as far as I'm concerned, there's no such thing as a 'no-flumph' attitude.
Now, a 'no-nilbog' attitude... that's probably a fair cop.
Now, a 'no-nilbog' attitude... that's probably a fair cop.
Yes, the "nilbog" was just too much of an aberration. :P
nilbog are actually fairly cool from what i just read about them on Wikipedia, i'd love to see them turn up is a warped and twisted form.
i love flumph and i loved a box full of them!
A box is a bit too much. I usually get tummy aches after half a dozen.
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Anyway!
I have Adventure Paths plotted out until 2012...
Wait... Does this mean James knows the end really is coming in 2012?!
Ahh!
Oh my gosh. Its more than 3 different people/groups now (not counting me) that have heared of the end of the world for December 21st 2012:
The Maya, Nosdradamus, James, and you. Thats gonna be one hell of a day. at least I'll be able to celebrate my birthday with a really big bang. Does any one know how the End will come....fire, water, earthquake, fire-water.... I need to know in advance, cause I'll need to pack up all my RPG-Stuff that I want to take along....Ohhh, by the way: I hope we will see all our favorite iconics published as minis by then, cause I need some nice company on that big trip.
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Ohhh, by the way: I hope we will see all our favorite iconics published as minis by then, cause I need some nice company on that big trip.
The idea of bringing RPG's minis with oneself in the Great Beyond, like modern day's Ushabtis or the Qin's terracota soldiers, strikes me as disturbingly relevant, even attractive :D
the end of the world for December 21st 2012:
That's way off. It's December 24th 2012, or rather midnight between 24th and 25th. The Great Old Ones are dreaming of a Red Christmas.
Does any one know how the End will come....fire, water, earthquake, fire-water....
... boiling seas, rivers running red, cats and dogs living together, busses and trains arriving on time...
But that's all just a big prelude for the Great Dinner Party. Better start believing now, to get a head start
What it really boils down to is the fact that, like him or not, Lovecraft was the most influential writer of horror of the 20th century. His stories have inspired a HUGE amount of sci-fi and horror and fantasy, either directly or indirectly, with people he inspired directly inspiring others in turn (Stephen King and Ray Bradbury and Robert Bloch and Robert E. Howard and Fritz Leiber are great examples here). He created what is, in a lot of ways, a uniquely American horror mythos that exists apart from horror mythos like vampires, witches, mummies, werewolves, and other classic horrors that date back much longer. Honestly... I think D&D owes more to Lovecraft than it does to Tolkien.
I can see that. Aside from halflings, everything else Tolkienesque that Gygax used for the original Monster Manual has its roots in mythology.
Then you have the Lovecraftian influence which has run deep in the game for a long time:
mindflayers = Cthulhu
kuo-toa = Deep Ones
deepspawn = Yog-Sothoth
the Far Realm...
Those are just off the top of my head, before I've finished my morning coffee. Many aberrations display classic features of Lovecraft's horrors--alien intelligence, primogeniture, tentacles, too many eyes--and make a perfect fit as primary villains for heroes to strive against.
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Creative Director
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I can see that. Aside from halflings, everything else Tolkienesque that Gygax used for the original Monster Manual has its roots in mythology.
Then you have the Lovecraftian influence which has run deep in the game for a long time:
mindflayers = Cthulhu
kuo-toa = Deep Ones
deepspawn = Yog-Sothoth
the Far Realm...Those are just off the top of my head, before I've finished my morning coffee. Many aberrations display classic features of Lovecraft's horrors--alien intelligence, primogeniture, tentacles, too many eyes--and make a perfect fit as primary villains for heroes to strive against.
Some other areas of D&D that are directly Lovecraft inspired, some not quite so obvious:
Evil books (such as the Demonomicon)
Ghasts (and ghouls, to a lesser extent)
The Underdark
Tharizdun
aboleths
Oh, meenlocks! I've always found the creep-factor behind those guys to have a definite Lovecraftian vibe. They're one of my favorite monsters and I've had precious little time to utilize them.