One thing I really like about the 4E DMG is Page 42.
For those who haven't seen it, the page is basically all you need to help you improvise and adjudicate rules on the fly, including a chart showing Low, Medium, High amounts of damage for each level (or small range of levels) and shows this for once off attacks and for ongoing attacks. It also has brief info about other helpful things such as the "DM's Best Friend" (+2 bonus for advantageous situations, -2 for disadvantageous situations) has DCs (including for skill checks) appropriate for each level (or level range) and so on.
It's meant to help you work out how much damage a campfire or a boulder would do, and you could use it for anything really. For example, if you come up with a monster on the fly and want it to be a heavy hitter, use a damage amount similar to the High value listed for ongoing attacks (because it can attack several times).
Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone had seen or made something similar for 3.5 (and/or Pathfinder RPG), particularly the damage reference chart part of it. I think it's a really useful tool.
Thanks :)
Looking at the table, the progression of damage is obviously meant for the use of powers in the 4E engine, so it would have to be tweaked, because increase in level in 3.5 doesn't necessarily mean an increase in damage done.
On the other hand, damage in 3.5 is modified by the tendency for armor to become pretty much useless at about 15th level or so, unless there's some DR or fortification involved. Characters have more hit points, but they're hit almost every time, because defense doesn't keep pace with offense.
I've wondered how to address this. Such a table would have to take it into account.
True. Good points. I haven't experienced a lot of high level play, and I hadn't really thought much about actually creating a chart yet... it seems like the sort of thing that would already exist, though I couldn't find one through Google. And yeah, there are different things to think about in 3.5, which is - as you've said - why the 4e table unfortunately can't just be swiped, without careful tweaking.
By the way, I did find a similar thread which hasn't had any posts in a little while, but hopefully it will get more active soon: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88732g
Table 12-6 (Monster Statistics by CR) in the Pathfinder RPG rules is similar to what you're describing, at least for coming up with monsters on the fly.
Of course, this still doesn't address the defense/offense problem of escalating BAB's.
Since D&D uses hit points to represent a character's increasing ability to defend himself, and armor becomes useless, what is the purpose of increasing damage done by hit die?
Other games, those based on skill, use an increasing ability to hit and to avoid being hit to represent this mechanic. Creatures of massive power are fearsome not because they can hit you more often, but because they can harm you.
I've always felt that D&D represents fantasy as presented by the books of Tolkien, Brooks, Martin, Jordan, etc. Heroes in those books do well by avoiding damage, and when they get hurt, they get seriously hurt.
Of course, they have writers to control the action, so this is easier than in a game. But I always wanted my game to reflect this kind of thing. Not to kill off parties, but to make the players feel they are in such a world.
Any ideas on alterations to the d20 mechanic to reflect this?
Look at D20 Modern. Classes get a Class Defense bonus to AC, and the Massive Damage Threshold is equal to a PC's Constitution score, not 50, so potentially lethal wounds are more common. Also, the Saving Throw bonuses tend to be less than D&D.
So basically, Heroic characters are good at avoiding damage, but if they are hit, there's a greater potential that the hit is lethal.
Also, weapons tend to cause more damage, and hit dice tend to be lower. For example, Strong Heroes get d8s for hit dice (not a Fighter's d10), and a samurai sword does 2d6, not 1d10. Combined with the Melee Smash Talents (+1, +2, or +3 on all melee damages) and Power Attack, and a Strong Hero has the potential to consistently strike above the target's Massive Damage Threshold.
And if when guns are added to the mix, it gets even deadlier: They do 2d4, 2d6, 2d8, or 2d10, and there's an easy to qualify for feat that increases them to 3d4, 3d6, 3d8, or 3d10. So, especially at lower levels, combat is deadly. And even at higher levels, there's usually a 5% chance a hit is fatal.
Table 12-6 (Monster Statistics by CR) in the Pathfinder RPG rules is similar to what you're describing, at least for coming up with monsters on the fly.
Thanks hogarth, that's quite close to what I was looking for (in regards to damage for monsters) and is certainly very useful. I thought there might be something like this in the Pathfinder RPG but I couldn't find it (haven't thoroughly read the whole thing yet).