Pump up the Mouther

[carborundum]

Has anyone a few tips on making the Gibbering Mouther in Tamoachan a bit tougher? My players are level 7 and hepped up on splatbooks (one VoP druid can hit AC 36), the fighter can get AC 26. The barbarian/Forsaker has AC18 but uses a Monkey-gripped ginrmous axe for big damage, the wiz is smart and has lots of tricky Spell Compendium spells, and the spellthief is usually invisible and has Deathstrike Bracers.

I want to challenge them by pumping the save DC but not so much that it's a massive XP fight. Maybe a few splatbook feats? Turin's Advanced Badass template is a must, of course, but any other tips, tricks, tweaks and tactics would be great. I mean, 6 +4 bites? They'll just laugh and I can just as well drop the whole encounter!

[Khartan]

I would suggest increasing the “gibbering” ability. All it takes is for one or two of your “hepped up” PCs to be out of commission or, better yet, to turn on the others, to really change the topography of this encounter.

[carborundum]

That's true. How far should I bump it? I guess I want one or two PCs messed up. Their Will saves are 7 for the barbarian, 4 for the fighter, 7 for the spellthief, 7 for the wizard and 10 for the druid. I guess a DC of 17 would be nasty enough?

[blargney the second]

You could just sub it for a CR 7 chaos beast...
-blarg

[Matthew Vincent]

carborundum wrote:

Has anyone a few tips on making the Gibbering Mouther in Tamoachan a bit tougher? My players are level 7

Your player's AC doesn't sound that unexpected for 7th level characters. The problem is that the module was designed for 5th level characters*.

You could maybe try using two or three mouthers instead of one. Even with high AC's the acid spit should still be able to hit their touch AC (and blind them), and 6 to 12 mouth attacks are bound to roll a 20 in a couple of rounds (possibly swallowing the PC).

And things can get truly fun if confused uber-PC's start attacking their own party members.

* I put my 4th level group through the module, but the mouther ended up eating most of them.

blargney the second wrote:

You could just sub it for a CR 7 chaos beast

Good call

[carborundum]

Oooo - somehow I'd never read the statblock for a chaos beast before. That's sweet! Especially as they only have a druid and thus no Restoration. Hmmm, is that too nasty?

[blargney the second]

It's a CR-appropriate monster for their level in the MM1/SRD. If they haven't fought one before, now's probably as good a time as ever!
-blarg

[Khartan]

blargney the second wrote:

It's a CR-appropriate monster for their level in the MM1/SRD. If they haven't fought one before, now's probably as good a time as ever!

-blarg

Agreed. Very appropriate. CR is a fair way to determine … well … fairness. I do not think it is the DM’s responsibility to consider party mix when planning encounters. The monsters don’t come out and say, “Oh, wait, you don’t’ have a healer. I’m going to go easy on you…” If they don’t have a healer, they die, and then they (the players, not the characters, obviously) learn a very important lesson about party mix.

[carborundum]

And they'll have an amorphous blob locked up in a cabin, slowly turning into a Chaos Beast while they sail on towards the nearest native coastal village hoping to find a healer there!