The listing for the Cyclops in the 4th edition monster manual says that this race arose as a reflection of ogres in the "real" world, but this left me with the question: why are there ogres?
Also: Trolls, Ettins?
Corrupted giants? Creations of giants? Thoughts?
I just want to touch on one thing here (it is somewhat relevant to the OP).
The only story element I absolutely dislike with 4e is the Feywild. In my games, I am just incorporating fey as some of the earliest residents of my realm.
As such, cyclops are not reflections of anything . . . of course, I haven't really dealt with them yet, so I am not sure how I want to incorporate them into my world.
Does this mean that you like the Shadowfell?
Not to deviate my own thread, but I kind of think two mirror worlds are a little bit silly, although I like the Silent Hillesque style of play that you could incorporate into a horror campaign.
I'm thinking of just making certain parts of my home brew world part of the Feywild/Shadowfell, rather than an entire other world that is a copy. It's just less work for me.
Does this mean that you like the Shadowfell?
Not to deviate my own thread, but I kind of think two mirror worlds are a little bit silly, although I like the Silent Hillesque style of play that you could incorporate into a horror campaign.
I'm thinking of just making certain parts of my home brew world part of the Feywild/Shadowfell, rather than an entire other world that is a copy. It's just less work for me.
I understood that All ogres, Ettins, Verbeeg were an offshoot of the giant race. Ogres in particular are like small hill giants( like a pigmy version).
I'm thinking of just making certain parts of my home brew world part of the Feywild/Shadowfell, rather than an entire other world that is a copy. It's just less work for me.
Yeah, me too.
I am not a big fan of the Shadowfell either; I would rather have parts of the Prime Material (if you will) fill those roles. I think this just stems from a general aversion to plane-hopping in my fantasy games. To be honest, I am not sure where that aversion started, but it is there.
One thing I do want to mention though - while I am not a big fan of the Feywild or Shadowfell, I am a fan of their inhabitants. I like the new Fomorians and I like the more focused Shadar-Kai.
My only issue with the Shadar-Kai is that I kind of want to make them a human cultural group instead of another race.
Yeah, me too.
I am not a big fan of the Shadowfell either; I would rather have parts of the Prime Material (if you will) fill those roles. I think this just stems from a general aversion to plane-hopping in my fantasy games. To be honest, I am not sure where that aversion started, but it is there.
I hate plane hopping as well. As a rule I tend to feel that most everything one finds while plane hopping could pretty easily fit into my fantasy world some where and having it be on another plane makes the other planes seem cheap by comparison. They are just like the prime, but with more good/evil/chaos etc. On the other hand anything so outlandish that it could not fit on my prime plane is probably too outlandish to make for interesting gaming. Hence I find planar stuff to fall into a 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' category.
I'll use it occasionally if the material is exceptional like Monte's A Paladin in Hell but you really need to rope me in.
Not to deviate my own thread, but I kind of think two mirror worlds are a little bit silly, although I like the Silent Hillesque style of play that you could incorporate into a horror campaign.
The Great Wheel Cosmology design featured multiple mirror worlds as well. The Plane of Shadows was one of them.
The current explanation works well for me right now as it stands.
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The only story element I absolutely dislike with 4e is the Feywild. In my games, I am just incorporating fey as some of the earliest residents of my realm.
I'm okay with just considering the Feywild and Shadowfell (both of which are lame names, but neat concepts) as being different portions of a 'first world' that split into Seelie and Unseelie sides, each reflecting the world and it's eternal struggle between the forces of wickedness and virtue. But even in the Shadowfell, there are things of dark beauty and secret hope, just as the Feywild contains some things that are more primal and savage than 'good.'
As the world in between falls into darkness, the Shadowfell gets stronger, and the 'dark reflection' begins to more accurately 'reflect' the current state of the world caught in-between (while the world falls further away from the Feywild, and creatures dependent upon it find it 'harder to go home again'). It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, as the darkness feeds upon itself and grows stronger, and the world falls further out of balance, barring the action of heroes to set things right.
Thinking of these two planes as being much like 'the Dark' and 'the Green,' from the Arcana Unearthed / Diamond Throne setting, or just using the Seelie/Unseelie metaphor, helps me digest the concept without discomfort.
I have an ogre-slaying knife, its +9 against ogres ...
There are no girls around, so you can't "do them".
I guess I'm the odd man out. I love the concept of the Feywild and the Shadowfell, although I kinda wish they'd kept the "Great Wheel" cosmology rather than lump all of the elemental planes into one huge soup of a plane. It makes my Elmenar campaign slightly more interesting to write up in 4e.
I liken the Feywild as the new "Positive Elemental Plane" that just happens to be a bit more "adventurer friendly." The same for the Shadowfell, being the new "adventurer-friendly Negative Elemental Plane." At least in that much, my other campaign setting, Lushei, is easier to write for.
As for the original question posited by the OP, "why are there ogres," well....
My answer to that, as far as my worlds are concerned is, they've always been there.
A bit simplistic, I know. But many settings assume certain races have been there since the dawn of time, molded by their patron deity during the creation of the world. For me, ogres are one of those races. To me, they would have been created at the same time (and most likely the same deity) as the orcs, goblinoids, and gnolls.
Just my two cents worth.
The only story element I absolutely dislike with 4e is the Feywild. In my games, I am just incorporating fey as some of the earliest residents of my realm.I'm okay with just considering the Feywild and Shadowfell (both of which are lame names, but neat concepts) as being different portions of a 'first world' that split into Seelie and Unseelie sides, each reflecting the world and it's eternal struggle between the forces of wickedness and virtue. But even in the Shadowfell, there are things of dark beauty and secret hope, just as the Feywild contains some things that are more primal and savage than 'good.'
As the world in between falls into darkness, the Shadowfell gets stronger, and the 'dark reflection' begins to more accurately 'reflect' the current state of the world caught in-between (while the world falls further away from the Feywild, and creatures dependent upon it find it 'harder to go home again'). It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, as the darkness feeds upon itself and grows stronger, and the world falls further out of balance, barring the action of heroes to set things right.
Thinking of these two planes as being much like 'the Dark' and 'the Green,' from the Arcana Unearthed / Diamond Throne setting, or just using the Seelie/Unseelie metaphor, helps me digest the concept without discomfort.
You've got some good stuff here. YOINK.
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Thinking of these two planes as being much like 'the Dark' and 'the Green,' from the Arcana Unearthed / Diamond Throne setting, or just using the Seelie/Unseelie metaphor, helps me digest the concept without discomfort.You've got some good stuff here. YOINK.
Ow! I've just been mig-a-mug-tugged!
Glad ya like it. :)
I kind of like ogres as a sort of "failed man". Like one god became envious of another god's creation of man and tried it for himself.
Or perhaps they were the prototype.
I honestly haven't given it much thought, but that's the vibe I'd go for.
I always considered ogres not as goblinoids, but as a forgotten link between the giants and humans.
They represent the fact that the two races couldn't really mix, physically or culturally, despite some efforts in the past which gave them life.
So they are strong but ugly and stupid, and rejected by both sides.
Just had this thought today while on a walk:
Ettins: Giants corrupted by Demogorgon?
Does this mean that you like the Shadowfell?
Not to deviate my own thread, but I kind of think two mirror worlds are a little bit silly, although I like the Silent Hillesque style of play that you could incorporate into a horror campaign.
I'm thinking of just making certain parts of my home brew world part of the Feywild/Shadowfell, rather than an entire other world that is a copy. It's just less work for me.
feywild/shadowfell = Umbra/shadowlands.
You can do a lot of cool stuff with both :)