Yeah, but I think that's an artifact from the older revisions - the introductory text at the beginning of the domains section makes it clear these are actually spells, rather than spell-likes.
Ahhh, I see it now, okay that's cool.
Yes, your new hit points kick in immediately.
As for Proteus domain abilities Shisumo is indeed correct that they are spells in the Beta, but since they are not chosen I'm going to allow Proteus to cast them before actually praying for them. I think of it as unlocking latent abilities (or some other nonsense - at least it will get you going). :)
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Yes, your new hit points kick in immediately.
As for Proteus domain abilities Shisumo is indeed correct that they are spells in the Beta, but since they are not chosen I'm going to allow Proteus to cast them before actually praying for them. I think of it as unlocking latent abilities (or some other nonsense - at least it will get you going). :)
:D The specifics of what happens when you level remain one of those things that Humanity Is Not Meant To Know...
EDIT (to Arioch): Yeah they should - I was waiting on Tom to confirm I got them before I added them in. I have played with DMs who see leveling as adding to max hit points, not current hit points, so I wasn't sure I should just assume.
Yeah, I like the read magic idea.
I am going to go with Giant for language after our dealings with the ogre and the hill giant.
Should've known Dark Arioch, you can't trust those elves.
Could someone please level up Grond, at least temporarily? Especially he needs to pick a rogue talent. We can go with average hps and bumping the same skills, and when Otto gets back, he can make his own choices.
Well done on the look-alike Grond, Shisumo. I thought it was really him except for your comment in the post. Bravo!
Can someone refresh my memory on how the Toughness feat works now? I looked at your level up for Grond, and it looks good, but I want to make sure I understand that particular piece.
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Well done on the look-alike Grond, Shisumo. I thought it was really him except for your comment in the post. Bravo!
Can someone refresh my memory on how the Toughness feat works now? I looked at your level up for Grond, and it looks good, but I want to make sure I understand that particular piece.
Toughness gives you 3 bonus hit points, plus 1 bonus hit point per hit die.
Someplace to put my initiative prerolls for the next batch:
Initiative prerolls (1d20+4=13, 1d20+4=9, 1d20+4=8, 1d20+4=10)
Sigh. I liked my last batch better...
Toughness gives you 3 bonus hit points, plus 1 bonus hit point per hit die.Well done on the look-alike Grond, Shisumo. I thought it was really him except for your comment in the post. Bravo!
Can someone refresh my memory on how the Toughness feat works now? I looked at your level up for Grond, and it looks good, but I want to make sure I understand that particular piece.
k, I had it right. Thanks.
Can I get a map update at your convenience BT?
Can I get a map update at your convenience BT?
Map update sent.
Update won't happen until tomorrow as I am out playing 4e tonight. Good luck.
Well, I thought I might talk about my trip a bit, but I went and tried to cut off my index finger this morning, so my typing is a bit hobbled. (The finger's fine, the tale's dull and foolish, and I should have use of it in about ten days.) At least I didn't break the hand again -- that took forever to heal, espicially since I live at the keyboard at work.
Anyway, the trip. Background: We try to dayhike, so we are on the trail all day, packing a lunch, but we return to sleep in a real bed and eat at a restaurant somewhere - so we're not roughing it, by any means. And we work rather sedentary jobs, but we go to the gym most mornings to try to maintain some level of fitness.
In a nutshell, we hiked 33.4 miles in four days, maintaining a pretty slow pace, but we summitted two different peaks and crossed the Continental Divide on foot. Lots of personal bests for us - greatest altitude change on one hike (about 3000'), highest altitude reached (about 12300'), longest single trail (9 miles altogether), and something like 300 photos (isn't digital great?) and 25 movies (mostly waterfalls). The best part of it all for us is that the sights we get to see this way aren't things you can just drive up to, take a photo, and drive off. We feel like we've accomplished something when we're done, you know?
Anyway, there seemed to be some interest in our great adventure, so I thought I'd take a moment and share a little. I'll refrain from boring you with details.
AinvarG,
That trip sounds like a blast. Originally, I am from California and I really miss the breathtaking scenery that the West provides. Thanks for the walk down memory lane. I would have loved to have been there.
As for my thoughts on 4e, Shisumo...
I just kinda sat down and typed this up, so I hope the thoughts do not seem as random as they came to mind.
I am reticent to give 4e impressions because of the polarization that always occurs with a new edition (I remember the same type of "foo on WoTC" mentality when 3e came out and the same on a smaller scale when 3.5e handbook came out). However, since I am among friends, I'll share. I will concede a couple of points before I get started. I do believe that WoTC failed in their marketing campaign and has also failed in their keeping of deadlines (DDI anyone?). Although, I think they tried a bit harder this time as opposed to last (for better or ill). I also believe they have failed when it comes to the GSL and am sincerely hoping they will fix their faux pas when they release the update. I love 3PPs and really want to see what other companies can do with the rule system.
Now for my impressions. The short answer is that everyone playing thus far seems to be really enjoying the game.
The rules are elegantly simple compared with previous incarnations. The rules fit together nicely and make a lot of sense. Rules adjudication seems to come a bit more easily with 4e than it does with 3.5 (3.5 was a major improvement over previous editions, IMHO). We have a fairly new person playing 4e with us. She has been playing for just over 18 months, pretty short considering everyone else has been playing D&D for at least 10 years. We also have another girl playing who is part of a husband/wife team who is not very keen on trying to learn all of the intracacies that come along with D&D. Both of the girls have expressed their opinion that the game is much more "newbie" friendly and easier to grasp. One of the players has even expressed an interest at some point to play a wizard now that the rules for all classes are closely related. Learn to play one class and you can generally pick up any of them because of the commonalities, but they are still different enough to offer intriguing possibilities. She would have never even tried to play a wizard in prior editions because she would look at her spell list and become paralyzed by options.
Feats have taken a back seat to powers with 4e. This is a nice addition. Now you can use both feats and powers to tailor your character, which gives the classes more repeat playability. I'm sure that the number crunchers will develop power builds, but I don't think you will see builds repeat as often as I saw them in 3.5. The fighter being a great example. After a year or so of playing 3.5, I remember seeing every fighter progress up the "great cleave" tree with very few variations. I expect that builds in 4e will repeat, but I don't think I will see the same build amongst players nearly as quickly.
I am currently playing a wizard. I was intrigued because I knew that some of the flexibility was going to be lost when I could no longer choose from a laundry list of spells. However, I have really enjoyed the opportunity for rolling attacks with a wizard and I feel much more a part of the action than I ever did with a wizard in any previous edition. Instead of casting my spell, rolling damage, and hoping for failed saves; I get to roll my own attack roll (sometimes multiples) and roll my damage without having to worry about saves until the bad guys go. I also like the fact that I get to use magic at will. I never understood the mentality that a wizard spent years of study only to have to worry about using their spells too quickly and being required to rely on a crossbow or quarterstaff attack against a bad guy's super sick AC. In fact, all of my attacks work against either the reflex defense or the will defense of my opponent, which gives me an opportunity to be a participant even if one defense is difficult to overcome. Much to my consternation, my options have been limited due to the movement of a lot of spells over to rituals which take an extremely long time to cast (at least 10 minutes) making them virtually useless in combat, however, I will take it with the addition of the ability to use my magical abilities without having to be overly concerned with using too much too soon.
I really like the new save method. A great example of the benefits are the sleep spell. The way it works is Auron (my wizard) casts the spell and rolls attack rolls vs. will defense against each person in the blast radius. All combatants he affects are slowed. Their save is at the end of their turn so they will go through one round of being slowed no matter what. If I hit, and they fail their first save, they fall asleep. If I miss and they fail their first save, then the slow endures. Keep in mind that the slowed condition only reduces movement to two squares now, so it is not nealy as effective as it once was, but it is very useful in the appropriate situation. I may not be giving it justice, but in my opinion it's really a smooth mechanic.
Marking, blindness, cover, concealment, grab, escape, bull rush, charging, prone, flanking, opportunity attacks, critical hits, combat advantage, second wind, and action points are all clean, simple mechanics which we have already had the opportunities to use making combats extremely interesting. Everyone can participate even if they are in a poor tactical position. I do miss critical misses, though.
I will say that I am not totally sold on the skill system, but I am willing to give it time. There are no more ranks to buy so some of the DCs look incredibly impossible. However, you gain an additional +1 bonus for every 2 levels you achieve so I'm going to withhold my final judgement of these until I have the opportunity to gain some more levels (we are currently first level).
I also really have enjoyed the encounters so far. The abilities of the monsters are very exciting and my DM seems to be enjoying the multitude of options he has available to him even though he doesn't have a multitude of different monsters to use since he is relying only on the Monster Manual to provide his fodder. With the new power system, he throws everything at you because it is unlikely that they will survive to a second encounter. He has gotten off some pretty heinous attacks against us and really enjoys this aspect of the new system as a result. The minion rules have been particularly useful to him, as well, since he can throw an encounter with a host of enemies and not be overly concerned that it is too powerful for us to overcome.
I will add that, although I am not a Magic player, I have several in my gaming group. They have compared the new edition to the combo and resource management aspects of Magic: The Gathering. That may be useful information if you have ever played the game.
Again, my overall first impression (we have only played two games) is that the rules are very nice indeed. Simple, elegant and easy to understand, comparitively speaking, making the game enjoyable for all. My complaints about the system are easy for me to set aside when I look at the advantages that they have enabled me to gain while keeping overall game balance in line. I will say that figure representation, power cards, and some sort of device to denote conditions are extremely useful for keeping track of what is going on in the combat. We have a system for all of the above and it has majorly contributed to the ease of understanding.
I would be interested if anyone else has any opposed or congruent viewpoints.
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Thanks for the post, WorsT. I have not yet played 4E, or even really come close to doing so; my initial impressions haven't been particularly favorable. That said, however, I have little or no tolerance for OneTrueWayism - people should play the game they want to play, and more power to them. What I am interested in, though, where 4E is concerned, is actual play reports like yours, especially from people whose playstyle I am (beginning, anyway) to feel like I understand. Just because I don't think 4E is for me doesn't mean I'm right, so I'm always up for hearing one more person's piece of anecdotal evidence. Thus far, most of the reports I've heard from people I know have been neutral to negative, so a report like yours is all the more worth hearing.
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Anyway, the trip. Background: We try to dayhike, so we are on the trail all day, packing a lunch, but we return to sleep in a real bed and eat at a restaurant somewhere - so we're not roughing it, by any means. And we work rather sedentary jobs, but we go to the gym most mornings to try to maintain some level of fitness.
In a nutshell, we hiked 33.4 miles in four days, maintaining a pretty slow pace, but we summitted two different peaks and crossed the Continental Divide on foot. Lots of personal bests for us - greatest altitude change on one hike (about 3000'), highest altitude reached (about 12300'), longest single trail (9 miles altogether), and something like 300 photos (isn't digital great?) and 25 movies (mostly waterfalls). The best part of it all for us is that the sights we get to see this way aren't things you can just drive up to, take a photo, and drive off. We feel like we've accomplished something when we're done, you know?
Anyway, there seemed to be some interest in our great adventure, so I thought I'd take a moment and share a little. I'll refrain from boring you with details.
Sounds awesome. My wife would love it. I'm not as keen on hiking as she is, but I like a walk in the woods every now and again, and I am willing to put in some effort for decent scenery. (We scaled a extinct volcano once, in northern AZ, a roughly 400 ft elevation change in only about a quarter mile. That was *intense.*) If you put your pics up somewhere, flickr or whathaveyou, drop us the link!
Thus far, most of the reports I've heard from people I know have been neutral to negative, so a report like yours is all the more worth hearing.
I tried to keep it fair. There are always going to be things you like and dislike about a new version of a game. Based on initial reports and information I could glean from the WoTC site, I knew it was going to be a very different game so I tried to approach it with an open mind. If you go into it expecting the same game you played before, I could see how it would be easy to be disappointed. If you go into it with the mentality that it is a new game to learn, I think it would be much more rewarding.
I also don't like the equation that easier equals dumbed-down. In my opinion, the two don't necessarily equal. Certain aspects of the game have been streamlined but I don't feel like it has been dumbed-down. My argument to that would be the increase in difficulty of playing classes like the fighter and rogue due to the introduction of powers.
I will also add that each class gets access to their own extremely long list of powers (though they are spread over 30 levels with some levels only having a couple of options) which gives each class a unique flavor.
I am also very disappointed with the index in the back of the PHB.
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Question: do you think it would be possible to build Sandros, or someone somewhat like him, as a fighter in 4E? One of the things I have heard about 4E that most concerns me is that each class really only has about two build "directions," and that somewhat off-the-wall concepts don't work well at this point. Is that your impression, or do you think that there are more options available than 4E's critics are giving it credit for?
Question: do you think it would be possible to build Sandros, or someone somewhat like him, as a fighter in 4E? One of the things I have heard about 4E that most concerns me is that each class really only has about two build "directions," and that somewhat off-the-wall concepts don't work well at this point. Is that your impression, or do you think that there are more options available than 4E's critics are giving it credit for?
That is a hard question to answer at this point in my 4e experience, but I can try to consider the answer with what I know regarding the 4e rules.
I don't know that it would be terribly difficult to create a character like Sandros. One of the nice aspects of character building in 4e is that you can use different abilities to modify defenses. For example, str or con bonus can be used to modify your fortitude defense, int or dex can be used to modify your reflex defense. This makes a nice feature available without having to burn a feat for access. I don't really see Sandros as an "off-the-wall" concept and don't think it would be too difficult to replicate some of the basic idea, although you would have a varying degree of options available to him.
Multiclassing on the other hand is a totally different beast now. Multiclassing is handled with feats that give you access to some of the powers available to the class that correlates with the feat. For example, "Initiate of the Faith" gives the ability to use a handful of powers available to the cleric. In my opinion it is good and it is bad. There will never again be a fighter/rogue/cleric because you can only take a multiclass feat once. Also, you won't have a character who is equally good at two different classes because the rules don't currently support it. I'll be honest and say I don't really have a problem with this because it helps avoid broken, over-powered characters. It also makes sense to me on the level that being good at two, very different, things is very difficult to do in real life. I realize that this is a fantasy world, but I don't have a problem with this being closer to how it works in the "real world." I will also say that the multiclassing rules help maintain the usefullness and appeal of each of the classes.
I think there is a lot of opportunity for people to be creative. I also think that some of the options were nerfed in order to keep game balance in check.
I just want to congratulate everyone on 1000 posts in our game.
Good job!
Just wanted to say, Shisumo, I'm sorry if casting the obscuring mist totally screws us up. I was trying to think of a way that I could avoid getting followed and avoid you taking too much damage this round so I could get a chance to heal Sandros.
If it works out then, "I'm the man!" ;)
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Just wanted to say, Shisumo, I'm sorry if casting the obscuring mist totally screws us up. I was trying to think of a way that I could avoid getting followed and avoid you taking too much damage this round so I could get a chance to heal Sandros.
If it works out then, "I'm the man!" ;)
Heh! What, you think Sandros needs looking after?
Honestly, it'll probably be a good thing, since I'm getting in people's faces but they're trying to shoot me.
Ka'kara runs into the mists and yells out "Marco!"
"Polo!"
Hypothetically speaking, if someone were to start looking for players for a PbP Second Darkness campaign, would anyone here be interested in such?
Hypothetically speaking, I'd be interested.
Hypothetically speaking, if someone were to start looking for players for a PbP Second Darkness campaign, would anyone here be interested in such?
Yes !!!! big yes for playing in a second darkness PBP , the one I'm in has collapsed just when we were arriving at the golden goblin
But I didn't come for this actually
Worst , what do you use for your maps ? I think we'll need a cartographer in our group soon ...
I use FM8. In my opinion, for the price and the ease of use, it is the best product. I also use Counter Collection by Fiery Dragon to represent the monsters. I would suggest getting a product like Counter Collection Gold if you do that, though, since all the counters are in jpg format instead of pdf.
If you need a place to host the files, I may be able to help you out.
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Hypothetically speaking, I'd be interested.
I'm still debating if I'm going to do it, because I am not entirely sure I have the time, but I've got this itch that won't go away... If I do, though, you're in.
Arioch, was that a "yes" from you?
robin, my intention is to start with the players from my game and give them first crack, but if I decide to do this and I can't fill all the slots (and I doubt I'll get everyone filled), I'll put you at the top of the list.
Worst? Ainvar? Otto (whenver you get back)? Any interest?
Worst? Ainvar? Otto (whenver you get back)? Any interest?
As much as I hate to say "no," I must. With school, an eleven month old, a fiance', a D&D game, as well as various other sundry responsibilities, I am afraid my plate is virtually full.
But I thank you for the invite. If you do get it started and my schedule clears, I would be happy to join when and if a spot becomes available.
Hypothetically speaking, I'd be interested.I'm still debating if I'm going to do it, because I am not entirely sure I have the time, but I've got this itch that won't go away... If I do, though, you're in.
Arioch, was that a "yes" from you?
robin, my intention is to start with the players from my game and give them first crack, but if I decide to do this and I can't fill all the slots (and I doubt I'll get everyone filled), I'll put you at the top of the list.
Worst? Ainvar? Otto (whenver you get back)? Any interest?
Oh, shoot. I had decided that I didn't have time for another game, but for you... I would consider it seriously. Put me down as a probable, willing to be bumped if need be.
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LOL If you're feeling pressured, don't be! I understand not having time - like I said, I'm not sure I have the time myself! - but I have been having a good time with ya'll, so I wanted to make sure that you had a shot if you want it!
...I am going to do it, though. My PDF copy of Children of the Stars showed up in my email today, which I can only think is a sign...
LOL If you're feeling pressured, don't be! I understand not having time - like I said, I'm not sure I have the time myself! - but I have been having a good time with ya'll, so I wanted to make sure that you had a shot if you want it!
...I am going to do it, though. My PDF copy of Children of the Stars showed up in my email today, which I can only think is a sign...
Oh, no, it's not that I'm feeling pressured. I just feel like it would be a shame to pass on the opportunity.
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:) All right then. You're in, provisionally.
EDIT: I've started a thread in the Gamer Connection forum, but it's not showing up yet.
EDIT AGAIN: Okay, here it is.
:) All right then. You're in, provisionally.
EDIT: I've started a thread in the Gamer Connection forum, but it's not showing up yet.
EDIT AGAIN: Okay, here it is.
Found it -- wow, you got a fast response. What was that, 3 in 30 min.?
I'll post in it, but for now I'll watch see what characters get proposed, to give me a little direction. I'm leaning away from a mage, to do something different, but will take GM suggestions into account. ;-)
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Arioch, was that a "yes" from you?
Sorry missed this earlier. Looks like you have a full house already so I'll watch the fireworks from the sidelines. Probably don't need to be getting myself wrapped up in another one already anyway. Maybe I can play an NPC or something for you down the road. I am also playing Second Darkness in a RL game so I have an idea about what they are in for ;)
Has anyone heard or seen anything from Otto? I'm rather entirely not doing Grond justice, but I don't know what we ought to do here...
I looked at his aliases. The most recent post was Oct 1 stating a personal emergency and hoping to be back online by that weekend.
I think you are doing fine with him in combat and he wasn't really laid out to be a social character, so I think you are doing fine. Unless Black Tom thinks otherwise, let's let him roll. I'd be willing to take over the substitute roll if you wish. Too bad we cannot transfer profiles between accounts...
I think you are doing fine with him in combat and he wasn't really laid out to be a social character, so I think you are doing fine. Unless Black Tom thinks otherwise, let's let him roll. I'd be willing to take over the substitute roll if you wish. Too bad we cannot transfer profiles between accounts...
Yeah, if it's OK with you, Shisumo, you are welcome to run him a bit more. I'm getting a bit worried also, but I'll give Otto some more time before doing anything about it. If Ainvar wants to take over, that's great too.
Yeah, I hope everything is ok with Otto and family. I would also be willing to help out Shisumo. I'm sure I wouldn't do as well as yourself, but I can understand if it's cumbersome.
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Oh, it's not a question of "cumbersome" really, it's just that Otto's roleplaying style is extremely idiosyncratic, which made his Grond memorable - and mine is, well, not. I'm willing to keep things going for as long as you want to wait for him, though, Tom.
On the subject of waiting, though, I will be out of town and largely without internet access Sunday and Monday. I might/hope to have time for a single post each day, but I wanted to warn you guys now.
Hey Ainvar, I was looking through the rewards section on Royl's sheet and it would appear you overlooked the 675 xp we received for defeating the kobolds the second time through.
Hey Ainvar, I was looking through the rewards section on Royl's sheet and it would appear you overlooked the 675 xp we received for defeating the kobolds the second time through.
So I did. Thanks for the audit. I missed the hero point, too.
This is why I put the audit trail in that section...