OK, after reading the 4E rules I have to say that I am definitely a convert. 4E is the game for me! That said, I am disappointed with the 4E take on lycanthropy.
Lycanthrope Lore
A character knows the following information about lycanthropes
with a successful Nature check.
DC 15: Lycanthropy is hereditary, and lycanthropes mate
with those of a similar species to produce lycanthrope offspring.
Some lycanthropes can also mate with similarly sized
humanoids, sometimes producing lycanthrope children. However,
the blood is diluted in this way, and many such children
never change or instead become shifters.
So lycanthropy is now hereditary, and lycanthropes can no longer afflict their victims with their curse. A wererat bite transmits "filth fever", and a werewolf bite transmits something called "moon frenzy". I'm not liking that al all. The classic bite of the werewolf is a sacred cow for me. I will be adjusting this for my 4E game.
Another minor gripe: The MM only covers 2 lycanthropes (wererat and werewolf)! Where (were?) are my wereboars, bears, and tigers....oh my!
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It sounds to me that it fits in with the overall philosophy of 4e. Losing a character to happenstance isn't "fun." Therefore since lycanthropy has the ability to sideline a character permenantly, they got rid of it.
Also, it reflects the move away from the roots of the game towards other, more modern, takes on the fantasy genre.
It certainly handles the exploit of players trying to contract lycanthrope in order to get a bunch of freebies. Sure, you could rule that they have to take lycanthrope "levels", by using the old 3rd Edition template levels, but then the end result is worse than how 4th Edition handles it: nothing happens at all.
Now, since lycanthrope seems to grant regeneration and the ability to turn into an appropriate animal, if you REALLY wanted to go that route, you could require that the character takes a kind of Multiclass feat that lets him swap out class powers for lycanthrope ones. For example, you could make Regeneration as a "lycanthrope utility" that, once per encounter (or day), grants regeneration for the rest of the encounter.
Doppelgangers get Change Shape as an at-will ability at 1st-level, so you might just make that a feat, or a level 2 utility power.
As for the rest of the zoo, they are most likely going to be introduced in the next MM. Remember, Wizards wants to enforce the fact that ALL of the books are core, and putting iconic monsters in the next volume will help that. However, its not hard to make new were-critters.
If you want a werebear, make an 11th-level brute and be sure to include regeneration, a claw attack that grabs, an automatic damage attack that works on grabbed targets, and a disease for its bite.
For a weretiger, go skirmisher and make it around where the werebear is (10th-level?). Finally, the direboar is just another brute.
It sounds to me that it fits in with the overall philosophy of 4e. Losing a character to happenstance isn't "fun." Therefore since lycanthropy has the ability to sideline a character permenantly, they got rid of it.
Also, it reflects the move away from the roots of the game towards other, more modern, takes on the fantasy genre.
In 3rd Edition you might change into an animal at night and run around doing stuff, but are otherwise fine. You might also get a bunch of bonuses (+2 Wisdom, animal HD, a feat, etc).
Your DM might rule that you have to pay those levels off, allowing you to keep them but not gaining levels in your class until you get enough to compensate for the LA. Your DM also might require you to level up in lycanthrope now, doling out bonuses at every level up. Your DM might give you nothing, or even give you a choice of what you want to do, in which case lycanthrope becomes more of an unlockable character option.In any case, 4th Edition actually gives you the worst option in terms of character control: moon frenzy causes you to run in random directions and attack the closest creature. There is no attack roll required, or save allowed. Whenever your hit points drop below half, you will try to find the closet thing and kill it, and keep going. Once you are healed up, things are fine...unless you get one step worse, in which case you are in a perpetual feeding frenzy.
At least in 3rd Edition, you can maintain better control and seek help.
It certainly handles the exploit of players trying to contract lycanthrope in order to get a bunch of freebies.
My method is much more iron-handed: I won't allow my players to become monsters. Once they do so, they become NPCs. In the case of werecreatures, I would control their actions until they revert back to their normal selves.
With my method, lycanthropy becomes something feared and not a rule to be exploited by power-gamers. Plus, I can use the quest to find a cure for their afflcition as a great adventure hook!
Another minor gripe: The MM only covers 2 lycanthropes (wererat and werewolf)! Where (were?) are my wereboars, bears, and tigers....oh my!
You'll either have to improvise or wait for books like Monster Manual II etc.
Wow! Werewolves spawn 28 Days Later zombies? That's freakin' awesome!
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In 3rd Edition you might change into an animal at night and run around doing stuff, but are otherwise fine. You might also get a bunch of bonuses (+2 Wisdom, animal HD, a feat, etc).
Your DM might rule that you have to pay those levels off, allowing you to keep them but not gaining levels in your class until you get enough to compensate for the LA. Your DM also might require you to level up in lycanthrope now, doling out bonuses at every level up. Your DM might give you nothing, or even give you a choice of what you want to do, in which case lycanthrope becomes more of an unlockable character option.
You might get all of those things, I suppose.
But if you're in one of my games, likely you'll wake up a few times with dirty feet and then one night, the other PCs will have to save a poor villager from the monster savaging them and will, after the fight, find out that they have killed another PC.
Lycanthropy, run by the book in 3e, takes control of the character initially and all sorts of bad things can happen because of it, in game. Additionally, it moves your alignment. Im my games evil PCs become NPCs. Thats just the way it is. Its supposed to be a curse, not a powergaming technique.
All of which I am fine with. :)
It sounds to me that it fits in with the overall philosophy of 4e. Losing a character to happenstance isn't "fun." Therefore since lycanthropy has the ability to sideline a character permenantly, they got rid of it.
I agree. It's a wonder they let monsters keep weapons, spells, and hostile attitudes :/
Also, it reflects the move away from the roots of the game towards other, more modern, takes on the fantasy genre.
Sometimes that's OK.
But lycanthropy is one of the most well-established icons of horror fantasy. I think this is one more example of a reckless lack of forethought, restraint, and respect for widespread expectations.
IMO.
Wow! Werewolves spawn 28 Days Later zombies? That's freakin' awesome!
Sorry . . I'm confused . . . how do werewolves take a month to make a zombie?
It sounds to me that it fits in with the overall philosophy of 4e. Losing a character to happenstance isn't "fun." Therefore since lycanthropy has the ability to sideline a character permenantly, they got rid of it.
I don't think that was the reason, since they kept the Vampire's create spawn ability. I don't think players will find "fun" to become 1-hit point minions enslaved to a vampire lord. And lycanthropy could always be cured on prev. edition - but the vampire spawn transformation is irreversible.
Maybe the change was due to the potential annoyance for the DM to suddenly have a lycanthrope character in the party (as the PC will become a murderer lycanthrope on full moon and like).
I didn't like the change. There were many elegant ways to make lycanthropy harder to contract, but still exist (such as only contracting the curse when the bite reduces you to 0 hp, or letting the lycanthrope voluntarily choosing between spreading the lycanthropy or not).
I think that lycanthropy was changed in 4e for two specific reasons:
1. Lycanthropy is no longer a template and can't be layered over existing stats (well, you could, if you built specialized rules, but those would probably only appeal to a small segment of players).
2. Twinkie players that intentionally contracted lyncanthropy for the stat boosts.
It certainly handles the exploit of players trying to contract lycanthrope in order to get a bunch of freebies.My method is much more iron-handed: I won't allow my players to become monsters. Once they do so, they become NPCs. In the case of werecreatures, I would control their actions until they revert back to their normal selves.
With my method, lycanthropy becomes something feared and not a rule to be exploited by power-gamers. Plus, I can use the quest to find a cure for their afflcition as a great adventure hook!
Lycanthropy, run by the book in 3e, takes control of the character initially and all sorts of bad things can happen because of it, in game. Additionally, it moves your alignment. I'm my games evil PCs become NPCs. Thats just the way it is. Its supposed to be a curse, not a powergaming technique.
I concur. To use lycanthropy as a power-gaming technique is crude at best. It only works if the GM choses not to enforce the alignment change and monsterous tendencies.
I think that lycanthropy was changed in 4e for two specific reasons:
1. Lycanthropy is no longer a template and can't be layered over existing stats (well, you could, if you built specialized rules, but those would probably only appeal to a small segment of players).
2. Twinkie players that intentionally contracted lyncanthropy for the stat boosts.
I don't think this was a good reason, because, as I said, there were ways to deal with that. Like giving them the following ability:
Curse of Lycanthropy
When a humanoid would be reduced to 0 hit points by a werewolf's bite attack, the werewolf may ellect to infect the victim with Curse of Lycanthropy instead of killing her. The victim is left with 1 hit point after the attack.
A creature infected with Curse of Lycanthropy becomes a werewolf on nights with full moon. If the creature is a PC, it becomes controlled by the DM when in werewolf form.
Then, a "Cure Lycanthropy" ritual could be presented. The ritual would be level 10, only to make the player suffer for a few game sessions with its transformations before being cured by his companions.
I concur. To use lycanthropy as a power-gaming technique is crude at best. It only works if the GM choses not to enforce the alignment change and monsterous tendencies.
What about the good or neutral-aligned lycanthropes? That may not be much of a hardship.
I don't think this was a good reason, because, as I said, there were ways to deal with that. Like giving them the following ability:
Curse of Lycanthropy
When a humanoid would be reduced to 0 hit points by a werewolf's bite attack, the werewolf may ellect to infect the victim with Curse of Lycanthropy instead of killing her. The victim is left with 1 hit point after the attack.
A creature infected with Curse of Lycanthropy becomes a werewolf on nights with full moon. If the creature is a PC, it becomes controlled by the DM when in werewolf form.Then, a "Cure Lycanthropy" ritual could be presented. The ritual would be level 10, only to make the player suffer for a few game sessions with its transformations before being cured by his companions.
Well, I never said they were particularly good reasons, and while I like your suggestion, I think it opens a host of potential problems. For one, the DM assuming control of a living PC seems anathema to 4e philosophies.
Well, I never said they were particularly good reasons, and while I like your suggestion, I think it opens a host of potential problems. For one, the DM assuming control of a living PC seems anathema to 4e philosophies.
I don't think there would be much problem. The DM would have the choice of not using Curse of Lycanthropy - as a murderous monster, the werewolf is more inclined to kill people, not making others of its kind - unless it has a very specific reason. We won't have PCs becoming lycanthropes unless the DM wants it because it's part of his foreplanned story.
Krauser_Levyl did it for me. Thank you very much.
What about the good or neutral-aligned lycanthropes? That may not be much of a hardship.I concur. To use lycanthropy as a power-gaming technique is crude at best. It only works if the GM choses not to enforce the alignment change and monsterous tendencies.
I'm actually leaning toward making all lycanthropes evil.