Bullywug Gambit Vanderboren House (Spoilers)

[carborundum]

We're finally getting to play again and my players will be checking the house out tomorrow. I have three questions:

1) Do I need to read up on overland travel or is there a quick rule of thumb to see if they are 'early'?

2) The adventure says they should have a map of the house since they're familiar with it. They have been there rather often and that seems reasonable. I'm wondering if this should extend to all the floors. On the one hand, they're adventurers and protecting Lavinia - they'll have done a decent recon. On the other - if they know there's a basement they'll be there like a shot :-) Does it matter?

3) Should I kill Kara?

Juice me up with tips and advice, baby. I've made a full-colour card map from the pdf maps (all blown up and photshopped) and it looks sweet! Can't wait!

[Pygon]

1) If the PC's get there unreasonably early, I guess you could make adjustments. Otherwise you can just play it as is. The pirates are currently waiting for Vanthus to come home, so they could have been there 1 hour or 12, doesn't matter. If the PC's do a loop of the house, they should be able to notice the rusted out grate leading to the basement, which is perfectly fine if they go through the trouble. Some players scale the outside balcony and head straight to the bedroom :)

2) I'm assuming for the time being that my players wouldn't know any more of the house than the main lobby and the path to the room where they met Lavinia in the first adventure. If she has provided them lodging, then of course they would know more of the layout, but some rooms would be considered off-limits even in that case.

3) Totally up to you. It deepens Lavinia's resolve to lose her dear and trusted assistant, and sets her up to face more difficult circumstances. Protecting Lavinia from hardship would hide her strength and ability to focus during adversity (and how open she is about how things affect her, which to me makes her compelling).

Personally, I'm concerned about how many resources the party uses up in the parades against the Kellani assassins. The encounters inside the manor will be hard enough without forcing the PC's to retreat and rest up.

[Guy Humual]

carborundum wrote:

We're finally getting to play again and my players will be checking the house out tomorrow. I have three questions:

I'd love to help.

carborundum wrote:

1) Do I need to read up on overland travel or is there a quick rule of thumb to see if they are 'early'?

KISS: Unless they go all out (forced march and whatnot), or come up with some brilliant plan to get back to Sasserine sooner, just have Drevoraz get their first. A rescue is almost always more exciting than a siege . . . although an escape could be even more fun . . .

carborundum wrote:

2) The adventure says they should have a map of the house since they're familiar with it. They have been there rather often and that seems reasonable. I'm wondering if this should extend to all the floors. On the one hand, they're adventurers and protecting Lavinia - they'll have done a decent recon. On the other - if they know there's a basement they'll be there like a shot :-) Does it matter?

Give them a rough hand drawn map of the estate, I wouldn't include the upstairs (unless someone has become extraordinarily good friends with Lavinia) and I don't think you should include the basement. Once the PCs have rescued Lavinia or a few of the Jade Ravens you can add to the map.

carborundum wrote:

3) Should I kill Kara?

As a player the one thing that really bothered me about this adventure is that there's no possibility of saving Kora. I'm not going to say don't kill her, Let’s face it, Kora's death should truly move the characters and will hopefully make them feel closer to Lavinia as well as allowing Lavinia’s character a chance to grow, but I feel very strongly that killing the poor defenseless halfling automatically really makes the PCs feel helpless as heroes.

I'd say that if the PCs charge back to Sasserine with a strong sense of urgency then the PCs should arrive with Kora still alive and Drevoraz holding the blade to her neck instead of Lavinia's. If the PCs charge back to Sasserine but then choose to dally about, they should arrive just after Drevoraz does the foul deed . . . but with Kora still bleeding out (1-10 rounds to save her). If the PCs don't rush at all just run the adventure as writen.

[Pygon]

Hmm, my post disappeared, along with another one today. They are in my recent posts list, but not in the threads. I'll wait a while before reposting it.

[Thomas Austin]

Guy Humual wrote:

If the PCs charge back to Sasserine but then choose to dally about, they should arrive just after Drevoraz does the foul deed . . . but with Kora still bleeding out (1-10 rounds to save her).

Hearing Kora scream from "somewhere upstairs" as the PCs enter the house may add a sense of urgency to their approach, making them take the place by storm, rather than room-by-room house clearing. Of course, the frogs will react differently when the PCs start running through the place kicking in doors.....

[carborundum]

Thanks for the tips. The PCs took the Sea Wyvern after resting, using an unseen servant to try and make up for the lack of a full watch. A string of high rolls from a player with 7 ranks in Profession sailor and some good assists meant I couldn't really say no.

So in the end they arrived too late to really catch Drevoraz so I decided to keep the original timeline intact.

Then they split up.

I had to hide my confusion, since it turned out they were acting on the assumption Drevoraz would arrive alone and seek help in the city. All their actions were based on this - the Genasi fighter went to warn Lavinia, the spellthief went to find his black market contacts, and the other three went to visit the orphanage the party had been supporting - to get the cheeky street urchin's help in combing the city.

Now I've got problems - or rather they do.

The Water Genasi sprang into the water and swam underwater to the Vanderboren house, then went in through the front door. The spellthief (born in Shadowshore) grabbed a boat in the harbour and went to ask around about Drevoraz. The wizard, druid and barbarian went on foot through the crowds. They all arranged to be at the house an hour or so later.

So - the Genasi rang the door bell, knocked the door, then opened it. Three bullywaugs were waiting and started hitting him, while another sounded the alarm. He killed all four and then ... went in. He started shouting that he'd been sent by Harliss and went into the garden. He killed another two bullywugs summoned by the alarm and had just found Huntress Lorb-Lorb and her six friends when I switched to the other players.

I figured Kellani had the harbour watched so I sent the stiltwalkers and Diamondback against the three on foot, leaving the spellthief with a runaway cart. Everyone ends on a cliffhanger and we stop for Christmas.

Thing is - I don't think the genasi will retreat to wait - not if Lavinia could be dead at any minute. The rest of the party won't show up for ages so the question is what to do with the tens of bullywugs totally alerted by his shouts. Capture him? (Try to) kill him?

Oh those crazy players!

[vikingson]

try some of the tactics the bullywugs used on the Jade Ravens - and outnumber him, then batter him to pieces from all sides. Alternatively have the Bullywugs rush him en force and grapple him to sweet oblivion - or at least hold him still so the huntress can knockl him out with some heavy subdual damage. Using aid actions etc. will do wonders - or have them grapple him with an improvised net - say a curtain, carpet, gobelin or even the tablecloth. Smother him with a blanket... Drop a chandelier on his head...

Then, when he is all trussed up etc. add him to the sleeping room, and have the player play some lesser NPC (say a notable street urchin ).... you could also have him join the Sorceress in her "dancing routine" downstairs.

If he goes for a "Rambo" and tries to save Lavinia on his own - well not every hero-wanna-be survives, right ?

As for Cora - killing her usually really helps to stiffen the group's resolve - unless you intentionally opt for a peaceful solution as a satisfying finale, I would say, kill her and only let her survive if the players explicitly try to save her while fighting the chieftain and Drevoraz.

Of course, in my camapaign the whole fight really poisoned the attitude my group had towards Harliss, who then got a serving of full-scale poetic justice for it in SoS (actually I had the strange feeling the heroes went to Scuttlecove as much to save Lavinia as to get" even"with Harliss for Cora's death ).

GL and happy holiday break

[psionichamster]

nice setup, i'd say.

gotta give credit for holding them over a cliff for the holiday. makes the "roll init" of the next game all the better.

-if the genasai doesn't retreat, when confronted with overwhelming force, toast him. if you're feeling extra generous, knock him to negatives and have them leave him for dead.

rolling them stabilization checks every minute or whatever, of course.

stiltwalkers vs. 3 party members seems ok for me. mine got trounced by the party, anyways.

and the cart vs. the spellthief sounds perfect.

do they have any "signal" magic or abilities? status spells or the like?

as far as whether or not to kill Cora, my party had talked Drevoraz into helping them...as they were en route to the room to take out the bullywug cleric, the bard strikes him for killing her.

he spins, gets init, hits twice, and beheaded the bard in 1 round.

i agree with Vikingson, though...it'll stiffen their resolve, and may prove to be a decent money sink if they choose to resurrect her.

-the hamster

[Guy Humual]

carborundum wrote:

Now I've got problems - or rather they do.

The Water Genasi sprang into the water and swam underwater to the Vanderboren house, then went in through the front door. The spellthief (born in Shadowshore) grabbed a boat in the harbour and went to ask around about Drevoraz. The wizard, druid and barbarian went on foot through the crowds. They all arranged to be at the house an hour or so later.

So - the Genasi rang the door bell, knocked the door, then opened it. Three bullywaugs were waiting and started hitting him, while another sounded the alarm. He killed all four and then ... went in. He started shouting that he'd been sent by Harliss and went into the garden. He killed another two bullywugs summoned by the alarm and had just found Huntress Lorb-Lorb and her six friends when I switched to the other players.

I'd say that Drevoraz wants information as much as the PCs do. When word of the Ganasi reaches him he has the barbarian brought up to the bedroom where, after tying him up, the priest revives him. Drevoraz likely won't listen to reason so it'll be up to the remaining PCs to rescue their friend and Lavinia.

carborundum wrote:

I figured Kellani had the harbour watched so I sent the stiltwalkers and Diamondback against the three on foot, leaving the spellthief with a runaway cart. Everyone ends on a cliffhanger and we stop for Christmas.

Good plan!

Things are probably better if the Genasi doesn't try to escape, here’s why:
1)first thing you do when you return after the holidays is go straight to the fight with the barbarian. Let it move towards its obvious conclusion.
2) go to fight with diamondback.
3) spellthief hopefully saves the day with the runaway cart
4) The PCs meet with their lovable street scamp who informs them that 'someone' wants them dead and that they should lie low somewhere until all this violence blows over. Why not that noble that they're working for? The scamp even knows of a back way into the estate so the PCs can avoid attention.
5) Spellthief finds a contact with quite a bit of information "Drevoraz," the NPC spits, "heard he's wanted for piracy or somthn', not likely he's gonna get help . . . from inside the city anyway . . . Thought I might have heard about his gang being in league with dem filthy Bullywugs though . . ."
6) Barbarian is revived. He wakes bound in the bedroom with Lavinia and Drevoraz and Drevoraz wants answers! The PC should be in the single digits and a single slap from Drevoraz should knock him out.
7) Allow the other PCs a chance to meet up. The street scamp shows them the metal fence behind Lavinia's estate . . . which has been destroyed by the rust monster!
"oi," says the scamp, "this wasn't rusted yesterday!"
allow the PCs to sneak into the estate. It's possible that the bullywugs aren't guarding the entrance they used themselves.
8)Barbarian wakes up with Drevoraz saying something like "If he doesn't get 'ere soon I'm gonna start cutting off 'eads! Starting with your cousin here (he says kicking the barbarian) and you gets to watch! He may be a good friend o' dog Vanthus' but he'll be surprised enough when he comes 'ome to see his 'ead sittn' on your pretty lap!"
(it should be clear that Lavinia lied to spare the PC's life for the time being and if the player seems a tad dense have her lie again to prove a point "he and Vanthus weren't very close as children, let him go and his family in black port might reward you . . ."
"yer lying . . . I think he's a good friend o'yer brothers . . . maybe I'll keep 'em alive a bit longer . . .")
The barbarian should be lying next to Lavinia and when Drevoraz and the priest are distracted Lavinia quickly uses that opertunity to start untying his bonds . . . but has to quickly quite when Drevoraz and the priest return (still, her work should allow a reduced STR check to break free).
9) play the rest of the adventure as written. Hopefully the PCs can get into the bedroom in time to save the PC and Lavinia. When Drevoraz moves to put his sword to Lavinia's neck let the Barbarian have a chance to break free and bull rush as a single action. That should make for an exciting final fight!

That's how I'd run it anyways.

[carborundum]

Lovely!
I like the way you have an eye for the story, Guy - that's the way I was hoping to take it too. Thanks a million - it fits and it has style.

Technical problem - say there are 6 bullywugs facing the Genasi (which there are) and also big boss mama (who can have a reach weapon as far as I'm concerned - all the better to hit him over the head while staying behind a row of hunters.)

Say there are three or four more who arrive behind him due to the alarm - for extra drama, and to block his escape.

Now, say that they try to tear his weapon out of his hands, or simply try to grapple him, using the Aid Other action.

Three Bullywug Hunters ready actions to aid the grapple/disarm/sunder attempt of a fourth. The fourth takes his action. Whoops - Attack of Opportunity, he dies, the other three do nothing this round.

Then the Genasi takes his turn and kills two more mooks.

Repeat until in tears, or there are enough lucky blows to the head that he is knocked out.

He's not even human, so their favoured enemy doesn't help, and he has 19AC, so they only hit a fifth of the time. A quarter if I up their strength a little.

Am I doing it wrong, or is this fair enough considering he's fifth level and they're first. Maybe I'll give them nets...

**************
@ psionichamster - No signal or mental magic learned today. The wizard has some sort of party status spell but hadn't cast it today.

[vikingson]

you would be right on your interpretation of that - and basically I don't really see the Bullywugs grappling him, but simply charging at him from all directions (they are pretty dumb), clubbing him into submission - charge boni and flanking etc should add up nicely. consider using higher ground as well. That would be truly "bullywuggal" to me. YMMV =)

if you want to stick with the tactic though have a "sacrificial" Bullywug grapple him first thing in a round (drawing the AoO, then having the rest move up, aiding and the final one (perhaps the big mother) actually grappling him. Once grappled, have everyone join - the sheer number of grapple checks will overwhelm him - even if he is likely to win some.

Depending upon the room used, you could also have a Bullywug attack from out of hiding (like jumping down from a gallery right onto his head), making him unaware of the attack and ruling out an AoO.

Or go for the nets, carpets and whatever suits your mood. After all, the Bullywugs are amphibious hunters and should be pretty adept at netting deer etc.

Another option would be having the Bullywugs to cage him in with chairs, tables and other furniture, cornering him, and interposing the objects in between, keeping him at bay.

Or let the Bullywugs have some tanglefoot bags, glueing him down and pelt him with subdual attacks from afar

[Drawdy]

carborundum wrote:

1) Do I need to read up on overland travel or is there a quick rule of thumb to see if they are 'early'?

They never really questioned the timeline in mine. Besides, they don't know exactly how Drevoraz got there...he could have had a boat.

2) The adventure says they should have a map of the house since they're familiar with it. They have been there rather often and that seems reasonable. I'm wondering if this should extend to all the floors. On the one hand, they're adventurers and protecting Lavinia - they'll have done a decent recon. On the other - if they know there's a basement they'll be there like a shot :-) Does it matter?

I have a 6' by 4' mat so I drew out the entire mansion and let them point out to me what they were doing. They actually had the rogue scout around the entire mansion first, but he failed his spot check on the grate. My characters did head to the basement, but after that they still have to fight everything eventually to clear out the mansion.

3) Should I kill Kara?

Absolutely! I did and then role played how upset Lavinia was to add some humanity. The Cleric of Wee Jas picked up on it and inquired about raising Kora. The Wee Jas high priestess is high enough level to raise dead, but required my players to accomplish a side task in Evermire in return.

(Actually, if you've read the Wee Jas core beliefs article, I had them escort Nayin...a suggested Wee Jas NPC...out to Evermire to copy the "riddle" off the tree. I'll post that later...I was proud of myself. Also, a Wee Jasian cleric will have to cast Commune to see if a dead person is willing to be raised from the dead. So really there service paid for the spell casting and Lavinia provided the diamonds.)