RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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I am about to start making my character for our Pathfinder Campaign and I have 2 Concepts I am mulling over.
My main Concept and the one that I am most probably going to play is:
CG Female Gnome Favoured Soul of Desna/Sorcerer/Spherewalker/Mystic Theurge.
She gets a Lyrakien (RotRL 2 p.86) as a Familiar when she gets high enough level with Improved Familiar.
My other Concept and the one that I want some feedback on though is this one:
LG Male Human 2 Rogue/(3) Paladin/PrC to be decided.
Charisma based UMD Evasion Paladin. I have to try and make the transition from Rogue to Paladin in story though, and am having trouble with justifying this without seeming like a powergamer. Basically, I start as a Rogue for 2 levels, then find God or something and become a Paladin for at least 3 levels before heading into a Prestige Class. I have thought heavily about adding in the 3 levels of Human Paragon (from Unearthed Arcana) as a bridge between the Rogue and Paladin. This would give me UMD as a class skill for all of my future classes and is most probably what I will do, so it would end up like this:
LG Male Human 2 Rogue/3 Human Paragon/(3) Paladin/PrC.
Anyone have any ideas with a background story that would take into account this character's clashing choice of classes (Rogue/Paladin).
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You don't have to get stuck with 'rogue=thief'. Best example I can give you is a LG rogue who was the town sheriff. Skilled at ferreting out the bad guys and subduing them to bring them to justice.
Mayhap he works as a 'troubleshooting specialist', mediating problems between opposing parties (with some clients being more unsavory than others), using words when he can and blades when he has to. But eventually he realizes his calling is to mediate the problems of the world. Human paragon wouldn't be a bad idea, mechanically-wise either.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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I'll just clarify some things so as not to seem like a powergamer over those 2 Concepts.
I really love making characters and make them how I want with only minor regard to making them powerful. I just tend to build characters in one of 2 ways:
around a Picture I find that I like (70%)
or
a Concept/Class that I like (30%)
Occasionally I will combine the 2 and have a Concept chosen that fits with a Picture I have found, otherwise I will just look for a Picture that suits the Concept after the fact.
Gnome
I wanted a Lyrakin as a Familiar and I have wanted to play both a Gnome and a Favoured Soul for a while, so they all (along with the Spherewalker PrC) just seemed to fit.
Evasion Paladin
I'm usually really good with fleshing out backstories that fit with my chosen Picture/Concept. In this case though I am just plain stumped, but really like the idea.
Cheers for any feedback =)
Evasion Paladin:
If you can work in the Order of Illumination (or an equivalent, possibly a splinter group of the church of Abadar, Iomedae, or Sarenrae) into the character's background, Shadowbane Inquisitor (Complete Adventurer) makes a good choice. As another option, Hunter of the Dead (Complete Warrior), would make sense if you wanted to focus on fighting undead. In either case the Devoted Inquisitor feat (Complete Adventurer) should be strongly considered.
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Two thoughts come to mind here.
For your gnome, the favored soul/sorcerer sounds like a really fun concept, but it's a long road to the mystic theurge and you're going to be losing a lot of high level spells compared to another caster of your level. If the rest of your party can support it it's got wonderful flavor, just keep you spell progressions in mind.
Like what Dragonchess Player said,
For the paladin/rogue, complete adventurer has a lot of good stuff for you. The devoted inquisitor feat and Shadowbane Inquisitor are both 100% designed for a character who is a holy champion for justice but uses skills to solve problems more than his sword.
Lastly I want to echo Alex in that you should talk to your fellow players and DM, both to figure out what the group needs as far as skills and to weave your characters together. I've found that gameplay is much more rewarding when the players all have similar goals and can play off of one another. It also make life easier for the DM.
Don't worry about seeming like a powergamer, neither of those two builds a particularly "strong" builds from a purely mechanical point of view, but they are practically dripping in flavour, good work.
For your evasion Paladin, it just screams Grey Guard (complete Scoundrel) to me. Perhaps swap the order of Paladin and Rogue levels (which unfortunately costs you a bunch of skill points), and go Paladin 2 / Rogue 3 / Gray Guard.
Basically, you are a Paladin who is prepared to do whatever it takes to make sure good triumphs.
Remember Rogue does not equal thief. If you go this route, I would take the feat rogue variant from Unearthed arcana that basically trades sneak attack for fighter bonus feats. Now you just have a fighter with lots of skill points.
Another option is Monk. There is a PrC is Faiths of Eberron (I think) that basically combines Paladin and Monk, it even eventual provides Monk Wis to AC in heavy armor. Not sure what books you have, and yes, its Eberron, but if it fits your concept, it shouldn't be too easy to rewrite the flavor.
But the most important thing to remember in making this work, is that Rogue =/= thief. That's for you, your DM, AND your group.
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Why not take your Paladin levels first.
Then you could be a Paladin with a vow of chastity (i'm not saying you have to take the feat, although you could, just have a vow). Then you could fall in love, decide to get married, have a family, all that stuff... So you have to leave your order and follow a new path, relying upon your wits instead.
It'll require some collaboration with the DM, but i'm sure it could be done.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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CG Female Gnome Favoured Soul of Desna/Sorcerer/Spherewalker/Mystic Theurge.
For your gnome, the favored soul/sorcerer sounds like a really fun concept, but it's a long road to the mystic theurge and you're going to be losing a lot of high level spells compared to another caster of your level. If the rest of your party can support it it's got wonderful flavor, just keep you spell progressions in mind.
The Mystic Theurge is more to finish off the Character rather than just taking Favoured Soul/Sorcerer for the remaining 6 levels. Given that RotRL finishes off at about level 15/16, she will probably never actually take many levels of Mystic Theurge anyway (1 or 2). The basic progression is:
FS/S/FS/S/FS/S/FS/S/FS/SW(S)/SW(S)/SW(S)/SW(FS)/SW(FS)/MTx6 The 3x SW(S) levels together are so she can get the Lyrakien Familiar at level 12, otherwise she doesn't get it till level 15 and that defeats one of the purposes of the build. I did want SW(FS)/SW(S)/SW(FS)/SW(S)/SW(FS), but the Lyrakien won out.I know I am giving up alot of spells, but that's not what the Character is about. She's a flavour Character unfortunately, which means she is a secondary Character. The group will probably have 5 or 6 players though, so we can afford for her to be a backup Healer/Blaster, or even just a Buffer (although I would prefer Healer/Blaster, as she is meant to be at least a little self-sufficient being a Spherewalker).
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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You don't have to get stuck with 'rogue=thief'. Best example I can give you is a LG rogue who was the town sheriff. Skilled at ferreting out the bad guys and subduing them to bring them to justice.
Mayhap he works as a 'troubleshooting specialist', mediating problems between opposing parties (with some clients being more unsavory than others), using words when he can and blades when he has to. But eventually he realizes his calling is to mediate the problems of the world. Human paragon wouldn't be a bad idea, mechanically-wise either.
I like this idea and will probably use it as the basis for the character. A Sheriff/Deputy of a Town/City (wherever the story is set).
I am going with the Gnome as my PC for RotRL, but the Evasion Pally will be either my backup (in case of Character Death) or my Character for Curse of the Crimson Throne.
Evasion Paladin:
If you can work in the Order of Illumination (or an equivalent, possibly a splinter group of the church of Abadar, Iomedae, or Sarenrae) into the character's background, Shadowbane Inquisitor (Complete Adventurer) makes a good choice. As another option, Hunter of the Dead (Complete Warrior), would make sense if you wanted to focus on fighting undead. In either case the Devoted Inquisitor feat (Complete Adventurer) should be strongly considered.
Didn't really like the look of the Shadowbane Inquisitor and Undead would not be a focus, so both of those classes don't appeal to me, sorry.
I am however taking the Devoted Inquisitor Feat for certain.
Don't worry about seeming like a powergamer, neither of those two builds a particularly "strong" builds from a purely mechanical point of view, but they are practically dripping in flavour, good work.
For your evasion Paladin, it just screams Grey Guard (complete Scoundrel) to me. Perhaps swap the order of Paladin and Rogue levels (which unfortunately costs you a bunch of skill points), and go Paladin 2 / Rogue 3 / Gray Guard.
Basically, you are a Paladin who is prepared to do whatever it takes to make sure good triumphs.
I also had a look at Grey Guard and didn't like it very much. To me it just doesn't seem to be a Paladin. My way of thinking would be that this is Neutral's version of the Blackguard. Alignment should not stay LG IMHO. In saying this, I really see no reason why a Paladin's alignment should be LG. A Paladin should be a God's Holy Champion, be that God CG, NE, LG or CN. The restriction should just be that your alignment must match your God's and if you stray then you lose your Pally abilities until you regain your alignment and Atone. I really liked that they did away with the alignment restriction for the Ranger, but just wished they had done the same for the Paladin. Instead they created the Blackguard PrC as the "Anti-Paladin".
Remember Rogue does not equal thief. If you go this route, I would take the feat rogue variant from Unearthed arcana that basically trades sneak attack for fighter bonus feats. Now you just have a fighter with lots of skill points.Another option is Monk. There is a PrC is Faiths of Eberron (I think) that basically combines Paladin and Monk, it even eventual provides Monk Wis to AC in heavy armor. Not sure what books you have, and yes, its Eberron, but if it fits your concept, it shouldn't be too easy to rewrite the flavor.
But the most important thing to remember in making this work, is that Rogue =/= thief. That's for you, your DM, AND your group.
I did get a little narrow minded there and just went with the Rogue=Thief mindset. Just so hard to shake my early experiences with Basic/2e.
Noone else in the group likes UA and I am only grugingly allowed to use Paragon Classes, mainly because there are only 3 levels.
I do have the Eberron books (all of them) but Monk is not really the way I wanted to go. I will look into it in the future though, thanks for the idea.
Cheers everybody for the input and thanks for the compliments mevers
P.S. Everybody, you can still give me ideas even though I have made my PC choice for RotRL. We don't start for a couple of weeks yet, so there is still time for amedments ;)
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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LG Male Human 2 Rogue/(3) Paladin/PrC to be decided.
Charisma based UMD Evasion Paladin. I have to try and make the transition from Rogue to Paladin in story though, and am having trouble with justifying this without seeming like a powergamer. Basically, I start as a Rogue for 2 levels, then find God or something and become a Paladin for at least 3 levels before heading into a Prestige Class. I have thought heavily about adding in the 3 levels of Human Paragon (from Unearthed Arcana) as a bridge between the Rogue and Paladin. This would give me UMD as a class skill for all of my future classes and is most probably what I will do, so it would end up like this:
LG Male Human 2 Rogue/3 Human Paragon/(3) Paladin/PrC.
Anyone have any ideas with a background story that would take into account this character's clashing choice of classes (Rogue/Paladin).
I have a question regarding the Paladin levels. As it stands, I am taking 3 levels of Paladin, which puts the character just outside of spellcasting. If I were to take a PrC that gives +1 Spell Level, would the Paladin go to a pseudo-level 4 and gain the ability to cast 1st level spells, even though he previously couldn't?