Metamagic Rod (Lesser Empower): Anyone having trouble with these?


3.5/d20/OGL

Shadow Lodge

I have been watching my group of 6 11th level PC's carefully with regard to their use of the metamagic rods, specifically the lesser Empower rod. I am starting to have serious misgivings about this item being overpowered for its list price.

An 11th level wizard can cast 2 (3 with a 20 INT) 5th level spells a day. If he chooses to take the empower feat and make maximum use of it, he must give up his 5th level slots for 3rd level empowered spells. This means that he looses those great 5th level spells (and there are a lot of them) just to do extra damage in a fight. However,for a mere 9000gp (about 15% of his average wealth at 11th), the Wizard can cast 3 empowered 3rd level spells without losing any 5th level spell slots. This gives him access to fireball and lightning bolt that average 52 points of damage each casting (peaking at a nasty 90 damage each). While this is not a big deal, the fact that he can throw an empowered ray of enfeeblement for an average of 12 strength loss and still have access to those nice 5th level spells, things start to seem a bit tilted.

What are your thoughts on this?


I think it's totally appropriate. As it is, they'd just be using those 5th-level spells as their actions in a round, for similar effect. The rods just give the wizards more staying power in a dungeon. (Ahem...)

Besides, it allows them to remain versatile in their spell selection, while leaving a few offensive fireballs on par with the appropriate damage level for an adventure suitable to 11th-level characters.

Plus, I would say 15% of a character's wealth is a hefty amount, when you consider what a character should have to be well rounded--usually some item in nearly every slot to try to boost the bonuses gradually, such as cloaks of resistance +1, amulets of armor +1, etc.

My brother always says empower is better than maximize, because it increases your potential damage, as opposed to just guaranteeing max damage. (I disagree, but...) On that note, if you feel that this is the case with empower, consider making the spell slot an empowered spell uses be of three levels higher instead of just two, and use the prices for empower rods based on the maximize rod table.


Well in the spirit of trying to contribute to the debate...

I guess I can't really see your problem. I just went and read over the item, and I have seen something similar in use fairly often as my players like the one that increases the length of their spells.

I mean I think the item is good and all but its limited by the level of the spells it can cast and by the number of uses per day. It may well be that 11th level is just about the time this item 'peaks'.

As your wizard picks up a few more levels he is going to have access to 6th level spells and the value of the 5th level ones are going to go down. Enhanced or not there is still the very real opportunity cost of choosing to use a 3rd level spell instead of a 5th or 6th level one.

Beyond that I just can't say that I feel that raw damage dealing spells are usually the best option for a wizard casting 5th level spells. Increasingly their opponents should have A) absolute boatloads of hps, B) just obscene saving throws and C) SR. So the mage player should really be finding that the use of this item is an ever increasing opportunity cost and that most of the spells that he can use this item on are increasingly less effective against the baddies in any case.


I agree that they are too good and reduce all metamagic rods to 2/day, same price. BTW in my games every spellcaster buys these rods if they can.

I prefer the way the rods work to the feat and play a variant on metamagic feats (I think it is in a book somewhere)where if you choose the feat you can metamagic a spell 2/day (again it is 3 in a book but I reckon this is too much). The maximum level spell you can effect is equal to the spell slot cost from the feat write-up. ie if you can cast 5th level spells you can extend 4th, empower 3rd , maximise 2nd quicken 1st etc. I also rule if you take the feat more than once it only adds 1/day to your use of that feat. I also let sorcerors have free reign for the feats.

therefore no-one gives up a 5th level slot for an empowered fireball, they just know that if they take the feat and can cast fifth level spells then they can choose to empower 2 3rd level or lower spells per day.

More than you wanted I know....

Dark Archive

I think the Empowering Rod is very appropriate as an item. As has already been pointed out, if your caster is using the rod on empowered 3rd level spells when they are 11th level, there is a HEFTY opportunity cost for doing so. I personally believe that there is a HUGE power boost in what spells can do for a caster at 3rd level 6th level, and 9th level. If you caster is using empowered 3rd level spells in battle, then they aren't using 6th level spells, which are more devestating IMHO. Having the Rod just means that the caster can conserve some of their power and use those empowered spells on lesser monsters so they have longer staying power when adventuring. I know few casters that are willing to continue exploring a dungeon once all their top level spell slots have been burned up. So having the rod gives them a way to get decent bang for their buck out of the low level spells and still have the "big guns" for tougher fights.

I would also point out, that there are feats that do this that are even more powerful than the rods. In complete Arcane, there are "Sudden" feats that let a caster empower, maximize, and even quicken a spell once a day without modifying its level or casting time. If you think a lesser rod of empowering is bad, watch when they drop an empower spell on their chain lightning or whatever. Personally, I don't see a problem with these sorts of feats and such. A rod of metamagic is a great item choice for a caster, but it is not a broken item. If you feel like it is making your players too powerful, then have your evil casters use these sorts of items to put a hurting on the PC's. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. Generally speaking though, when I hear DM's complain that things in the game are broken, it is usually because the their PC's ruined a well planned encounter through the use of some item or tactics. The problem with that is, is that is what the players are supposed to do. I've seen a full thread about a DM complaining that Dimension Door is a broken spell. I mean come on. Why let the PC's do anything cool. Why not just arbitrarily decide they are naked and gearless in the middle of the abyss or something. The players are SUPPOSED to be powerful. That is half the fun of the game. For the caster, who really doesn't do anything well besides cast, the joy of multiplying that 10d6 from his fireball times 1.5 is a load of fun. Taking that away, reaks of denying the players access to cool stuff in the name of making it easier for the DM to kill everyone.

Unquestionably there are classes and items in the game that are broken but this is not such a case.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16

Hierophantasm wrote:
My brother always says empower is better than maximize, because it increases your potential damage, as opposed to just guaranteeing max damage. (I disagree, but...) On that note, if you feel that this is the case with empower, consider making the spell slot an empowered spell uses be of three levels higher instead of just two, and use the prices for empower rods based on the maximize rod table.

Empower is better for any spell that has + x damage or other variable added on like the Cure Wounds spells. Maximize is better for spells with straight dice. Ex. a 5th level cleric casting an empowered cure light wounds could get 19 points of healing (max) whereas a maximized CLW is 13 points. It only gets better the higher level you are.

Now for the OP's subject those rods can be annoying when it just annihilates your encounters... but it's fun for the PC's to pull out the "big guns" once in a while. Remember against mooks and random encounters it's no big deal to let them blow resources like per day items... just one less use against your BBEG! Hell when designing encounters you should take into consideration exactly what items your group has and likes to use. 11th level PC's are right in their adventuring prime! If you want a tougher challenge drop in creatures that are low CR and made of hit points like monstrous vermin, elementals, and giants. Hell slap a template on them to give some resistances to energy. Rays are pesky too, but potions of blur and lesser restore are cheap.

Shadow Lodge

Brent wrote:
Generally speaking though, when I hear DM's complain that things in the game are broken, it is usually because the their PC's ruined a well planned encounter through the use of some item or tactics.

Well, I didn't say broken, I said tilted, which implies nothing more earthshattering than the item seems superior to the feat. Why would any caster take the feat if these items are available? And with multiple items per caster (don't forget it may be handy to have the cleric and the druid lend the mage their empower rods) it can lead to the mage having far more uses of empowered spells than intended. Yes, it allows mages to last longer in dungeons, something I think is a good thing, but when an item seems to be a must-have, it bears closer scrutiny.

Perhaps it is just that my players favor these rods and the encounters so far have not been with opponents that make third level spells, even empowered ones, a poor choice. My groups tend not to play beyond 10th level, so as we move into 6th level magic, we may see less use of this item. I was just curious if anyone else saw a problem with these things or if, as suggested above, their utility is at its peak and it is increasingly disadventageous to use the spells as opponent level increases.

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