My PCs have pretty much deduced that Lashonna manipulated them into killing Dragotha, and is using Zeech as a patsy... My only problem is that they have done so before they committed the deed, and now they are thinking of heading to Alhaster to destroy the "Great Project" before its even completed, and leaving Dragotha in his lair to rot. Of course, if they do this, the "triparte spirit" of Bucknard will not be reunited, and the final prophecy cannot occur (they failed to stop Raknian's plan, so when Greyhawk got swarmed by Wights I pretty much figured that that event was sufficient to fulfill what would have been the final prophesy)
I'm all for just letting them do it, but I'd like some advice on how to proceed?
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My PCs have pretty much deduced that Lashonna manipulated them into killing Dragotha, and is using Zeech as a patsy... My only problem is that they have done so before they committed the deed, and now they are thinking of heading to Alhaster to destroy the "Great Project" before its even completed, and leaving Dragotha in his lair to rot. Of course, if they do this, the "triparte spirit" of Bucknard will not be reunited, and the final prophecy cannot occur (they failed to stop Raknian's plan, so when Greyhawk got swarmed by Wights I pretty much figured that that event was sufficient to fulfill what would have been the final prophesy)
I'm all for just letting them do it, but I'd like some advice on how to proceed?
As you so astutely pointed out, their failure in the Champion's Games allows that portion of the prophecy to be fulfilled. If they don't bother with Dragotha and thus don't reunite Balakarde, have the tri-partite spirit actually be the Edon Aspect. There is a CR 17 true aspect in one of the later adventures. The creation of that spirit can be a sub in for that part of the prophecy. Let the PC's go back to Alhaster and go ahead and start Dawn of A New Age. Lashonna is a tough Dragon opponent, and when Kyuss exits the Spire, the parties will have a tough fight. If they beat Kyuss, have them recieve word of an Undead Dragon that has achieved Divinity by siphoning the power of the dieing Kyuss. So now you have Dragotha become the Undead Wormgod Dragon. Now the party has an even greater enemy to face. Give Dragotha a diving rank of 1 and advance his Hit Dice and age categories. Now the PC's have to go face an even more powerful Dragotha who is ready to pick up the pieces and bring in the Age of Worms even though Kyuss is defeated.
That way the party still gets the fun of battling Dragotha (I think he is actually the high point of the campaign for many parties and Kyuss kind of gets relogated to an after thought anyway). This also lets the party just handle things the way they like but still get the fun out of the campaign.
One other idea would be to let the PC's go back to confront Lashonna, but before they can face Kyuss, Dragotha arrives to defend his master and the party has to face to very difficult fights back to back as first they face Dragotha and then Kyuss. That might be too much back to back for the party, so my first idea might be better. Dragotha is IMHO the toughest fight in the AP. Kyuss is also very hard, but if they PC's play their cards right they can significantly weaken him before they ever have to fight him. There is no such good fortune with Dragotha. If they have Balakardeds spirit it is easier, but when I went through AoW as a player, the Dragotha was by far the most memorable battle for me as a PC, and truthfully, Kyuss was a bit of a let down after the Dragotha battle (that may also have been because of the un-Godly treasure horde that we got from Dragotha. Only time as a PC I have ever found a staff of the magi).
Anyway, hope all of that helps.
I would go with what the adventure suggests: if they don't take care of Dragotha first, they're going to have a problem dealing with Kyuss.
In this case, perhaps Lashonna successfully transported the monolith but then heard that the PCs weren't heading to Dragotha after all. Lashonna should confront the PCs on her own (maybe with some Blessed Angels, perhaps outside of Alhaster. She'll be pissed that her pawns didn't pwn the dracolich (sorry, couldn't resist) and she'll also be desperate to correct a bad mistake on her part. Namely that Kyuss' greatest enemies have not been diverted and now threaten his return. Likely the PCs will have a difficult time with Lashonna, as she's no pushover in her own right and her Blessed Angels will really help out.
For the final fight against Kyuss, I think that they'll just have to do it with Dragotha instead of Lashonna as one of the final guardians. Also, there should be no Blessed Angels to help, because those were specifically Lashonna's pets. Mahuudril and some avolakias should still live and be around though.
It just seems to me that you shouldn't make things easier for the PCs. Sometimes heroes make mistakes. And when they do and the fate of the world is at stake, then sometimes evil wins. Don't be afraid to let the Age of Worms happen!
You could simply save Dragotha for another day. He makes a great arch-villain and could be slotted into a later campaign. Maybe even something like Savage Tide though that would be pretty tricky.
If Lashona is not fully destroyed in killing the Worm God having her and Dragotha as the BBEGs for a later campaign strikes me as pretty friggen cool. Undead dragons rock.
Some good suggestions so far...
Not sure if my players will buy the Ebon Aspect thing, though. Its been pretty well established that the Ebon Triad was a false cult.
Would destroying the nearly completed "Great Project" put a stop to releasing Kyuss? Or could Lashonna just set the monolith somewhere else?
It depends on your own timeline. Once the Age of Worms endgame begins and the monolith is set in place, no mortal magic can affect the structure. Keep in mind that there are a number of deadly foes that will respond to such a tactic with voracity:
1)Broodfiends- second worst non-unique monster in the campaign. I think there's two or so on the spire.
2)Maralee- She alone can just about hold off a party herself. I've heard of campaigns ending upon reaching her...
3)Devils- Besides the Hornerd Devil statues, Lashonna has a Pit Fiend Greater Planar Ally that she could probably convince to fight for her if straits were dire. Besides this, there are more Blessed Angels written in PoRH than you fight in 'Dawn of a New Age', so it's possible to add a few more of them too.
4)Wormdrake- IMO, the deadliest non-unique monster in the campaign. Dragotha is pretty bad, but if you want to shelf him, one or two of these monsters is a good sub. With their summon worms and Gate abilities, a fight against one can escalate into a massive battle. (In mine I gated in a Balor and summoned two frost worms. When the balor died, the resulting death throes from him and the two worms killed a number of my party.) I believe it lists there as being six total in the world, so any number is fair game for the final module.
5) If they don't debuff Kyuss, (underneath Alhaster) it doesn't matter how powerful they are. Without Death Ward (which gets surpressed I believe), they stand no chance against him.
Now, If they are going to blow up the structure before the monolith is there, let them. Lashonna can easily procure a Wish or other powerful magic to restore the structure. Think of it as a juiced up Major creation/ Heal (since their is a Repair 'X' tree of spells) for buildings as far as spell duplication. Even if you feel one Wish isn't powerful enough, check Lashonna's resources as she has access to multiple ones. Hope this helps.
I like Brent's idea of making Dragotha the new end boss, rather than Kyuss. It's something that, although unscripted, is believable and would make the players think they've outsmarted the game, but in actuality are just making it harder on themselves.
How are ya Dave?
Tim! Good to see you on here! Have you decided to join the few, the proud, the people who post on the Paizo message boards? You picked up any Pathfinder stuff?
Anyhow, I guess one thing to bring up is the fact that, if they go to Alhaster now it won't be swarming with undead. They'd likely just be fighting the forces of Zeech. How hard would it be for them to physically destroy that monolith?
If they do it, maybe I could have Lashonna try to harness the latent power of the Spire of Long Shadows?
I think that the monolith is untouchable. It's at least a major artifact and harbors a god. The spire itself might be able to be knocked down, but Rakshasa covered pretty well what Lashonna might do if they succeed there.
This seems like one of those occasions where the PCs are trying to "outsmart" the story. If you view the process as collaborative storytelling, the players have just thrown away the script. I mean, it's nice to have some sense of free will (no railroad tracks) but at the same time, the adventure path comes with the idea that there is a specific story to tell. You as DM have probably laid down enough hints for them to head to Dragotha first. You can lay down a few more hints (an NPC who suggests that maybe ridding Kyuss of his greatest supporter would stop the Age of Worms), but if the players really don't want to participate in the story as written, I think that's ok. Let them head to Alhaster and face the consequences of their actions: Dragotha, Lashonna, and Kyuss will all be there to put the hurt on the PCs. It's unlikely that that they'll succeed. This particular attempt to outsmart the bad guys failed, and welcome to the Age of Worms.
Thanks for all of the great suggestions. I think I'm going to go the route of making the death of Kyuss lead to an even bigger problem: Namely, that Dragotha might become the new Wormgod, one more powerful than the human one. I'll let you know how it all goes down...
...well, how did it go down?
Binging old threads here is fun, but sometimes, as in this case, it backfires.
Personally, I would let them kill Kyuss, then give them notice: Mordenkainen is dead, and a new Wormgod has arrived in Greyhawk to marshal the wight forces.
;D
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I was concerned about this possibility of doing the BBEGs in the wrong order, but seem to have dodged that problem, by my players taking L at face value for most of the campaign.
I was able to use the politics of the region to make a plausible explanation for why the situation in Alhaster was tolerated by so many.
I knew one of my players can be hot-headed, and wanted to play a paladin as well(!), so built up Zeech's reputation as a former Heironean hero, who had been the only ruler to withstand the hordes of Iuz (hence why the locals still accept him).
This explained why L remained as his advisor. With the rest of the Shield Lands overrun, Zeech is one of the few remaining protectors of the south. When they suspected she was more than she seemed, she partly admitted as such, showing them a portrait of Zeech with a silver dragon steed, and pondering aloud whether he would ever be redeemed.
Several conversations on this theme, and my paladin was glad to believe that she was a force for good, acting as Zeech's conscience, and keeping him from going out of control.
Her proposal to Balakarde (which she also shared with the PCs, and which the PCs witnessed in visions after releasing his soul) was that Dragotha's existence was keeping Zeech hemmed in the city, causing his foul mood. With Dragotha dead, she would be able to push Zeech into a northern crusade to take back the Shield Lands, leading him into acts of self-sacrifice that would redeem him (alive or dead).