Praise for Pathfinder's attention to details


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion


I've been a little slow finding time to read the Pathfinder issues I've been getting, but what I've seen is really amazing. I've just now wandered over to this section of the boards, looking for further information on things such as Hellknights, the dead (?) god Aroden, etc. Everything looks great so far! I'm loving the world that is emerging from Pathfinder, especially the re-imagined classic D&D monsters.

There's one more thing that jumps out at me: actual and exciting information about the world's history. Typcially in D&D, real definite backgrounds aren't pinned down. There's no explanation of where dwarves come from, or elves, or orcs, etc., save for the latter two supposedly coming from the wounds of their respective deities in a mythical battle. Further, without delving too much into Great Wheel mythology (which I enjoy, but it rarely does much to explain some of the very basic racial origins mentioned above), this story of Corellon vs. Gruumsh is one of the most descriptive pieces of D&D (in-game) "history" out there. I know that specific settings often address some parts of this, but even that's not very satisfactory at times (i.e., the Realms answer that humans simply came from other worlds; but where before that?).

Further, when we do get histories, they are often rather unfantastic, which drives me nuts! Case in point: Netheril in the Realms. It started as several villages which banded together for trade and defense. Through this trade, their culture grew. Blech! Bland! The only thing really outstanding is the discovery of the Nether Scrolls, and there isn't so much of a real story there as "they just found these things" (I could be radically off base here, but even if so, this is merely indicative of the type of things one encounters frequently).

Another thing which bugs me is the "lost to history" bit. Yes, this city was founded by a great hero... who's name has been lost to history. Deed X was performed by a great person... who's name has been lost to history. A more specific example is the Quicksilver Hourglass. A whole friggen pantheon, who was more or less lost to history. How the hell did that happen?

Now, I realize that this is largely done because of page limitations in books (and Dungeon in the case of the Quicksilver Hourglass and other, similar cases). Further, the information is really largely irrelevant to the bits of the game supplements are typically introducing, and finally, they know they can leave these things to DMs to do on their own as they see fit. Of course, many of us don't have the time or inclination to go through that much background development.

Anyway, now that I've outlined what I don't like, here's what I do: Pathfinder's treatment of its own history. From what I've cobbled together through the issues and the boards, I get a much greater sense of depth, of actual stories and histories. Of things you can actually convey to your players when they walk into a tavern and hear a bard telling a tale.

More specifically, the story of Alcaydian Indros fighting the Vydrarch in Pathfinder #2's treatment of Magnimar (great city name, by the way). It's not much, but it's good. You have an actual character, not a vague figure or someone lost to time, who performed a great and heroic deed, and Magnimar is at least partially the result (rather than a bland "the city started as a small community and got bigger"). Likewise, the sidebar "Angels of the Arvensoar" really impressed me, as did the two colossal statues of the wizard brothers who defended the town. In the same vein, I really like what I've heard about Aroden so far. It seems to be at least partially addressing a racial origin. He may not have actually been the first human, but it's at least a clear mythology and an identifiable figure of prominence in the race's development; in normal D&D you would have simply gotten "Aroden is the patron of humans," or "Cheliax was founded by a great hero, who's name has been lost to time." Instead, we get info about Aroden raising the Starstone and ascending into the heavans. Even if we don't know the whole story yet, it obviously exists, and that's what counts.

It's this little extra attention to detail that really makes what Pathfinder is doing special. I just wanted to point out that this aspect of the design process Paizo has adopted is really appreciated, and I am really looking forward to watching it continue. Kudos!

Scarab Sages

The hero's name lost to time bit bugs me a lot too. If you think back on our own history, its just plain not true. Gilgamesh, Achilles, Caesar, Alexander, Sigfreid, Beowulf, etc etc... all heroes whose legendary stories likely had at least some basis in fact, even if we cant separate it from myth nowadays. Aeneas founding Alba Longa which would later become Rome... the list goes on and one, even just in Western mythology.

I love that PF is putting actual names out there for GMs to use. Thanks, guys.

No give us more on Aroden and the Aztlan Empire. Now, please.

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