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I am running a Dungeon-based campaign in FR for a group of 6 10th level PC's. I just learned last week that the player of our wizard (Diviner 5, War Weaver 5) has been reassigned at work and will no longer be able to make our weekly gaming sessions. This leaves the party with no arcane support. The question I have is this: can a party of 5 10th level PC's survive Dungeon-style adventures without an arcane caster and if not, what changes would you suggest to the game to make this a viable choice? The other players are happy with their characters and do not want to make a new character to assume the wizard's role.
The party consists of the following PC's: human druid (10), aasimar cleric of Tymora (9+1LA), half-orc barbarian, elan psion (10th level shaper), human thief (10).
I've run several games without wizards. You have spellcasters in the cleric and druid. Why do you think you have to have arcane magic to survive in DnD? Clerics are much more important in my opinion than wizards.
i am currently taking part in an AoW campaign that for the first 10 levels had no mage or cleric... in that situation UMD becomes a rogue's best friend!
Kendrik
I've been in games without clerics and wizards, you don't need them but the DM does need to adjust the adventure (sometimes).
You have a psion, so I shouldn't worry - they have much the same capabilities... bar the huge damage causing spells (fireball, that's you I'm talking about)
You're psion is a wizard in sheep's clothing . . . er, wait . .. that's not the best analogy. The psion is a wizard in [insert name of canine predator other than a wolf . . . cause well sheep are harmless] clothing.
The psion fills the arcane support role very easily. In the Shackled City game I was in, my psion, Darth Jedis, was very effective as a wizard with the serial numbers filed off.
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You have a psion, so I shouldn't worry - they have much the same capabilities... bar the huge damage causing spells (fireball, that's you I'm talking about)
Currently the psion is focused on metacreation (creating stuff from ectoplasm). Thus he is far closer to a conjuration-based sorcerer than an evoker or transmuter. I am mostly worried about spells like fly and invisibility, ready access to dispel magic (the cleric is kept busy healing and likely won't be as effective/ready to cast dispel) and the various battlefield control spells. Big-bang spells are nice and that is what many people think about when they think of a wizard, but they are truely powerful with their ability to shape the battlefield and control the flow of battle.
The druid also has access to dispel magic, so I don't see the problem. Further, druids have about the best battlefield control there is, so long as they're outside. Moreover, druids can back-up heal. And they have an animal companion, which is a nice bonus pool of hp and attacks. I think they'll be just fine.
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What changes would you suggest to the game to make this a viable choice?
It sounds to me like you have a pretty well-rounded group. Depending on the particular builds of each character, I don't really see a problem. I mean you still have 3 spell casters. (My group has a barbarian, favored soul, rogue/swashbuckler, and swashbuckler/fighter -- only one spell caster that is rather limited in spell selection and they are doing ok.) If you feel that they may need additional assistance you might want to consider making a few items a little more available. A couple potions of fly or a wand of dispel magic could easily help out the areas that you mentioned without bringing in a wizard.
They should be fine but each of the characters should keep in mind that they don't have a wizard any longer.
That means expanding out the parties abilities by picking up a more diverse selection of spells. The Barbarian should try to compensate with a few magic item choices that are more utility based (an Immovable Rod or adamantite weapon for example). The Psion should pull back on this ectoplasm focus and expand out the repertoire of powers. A psion ain't no wizard but combined with a druid and a cleric its possible to cover most of what a wizard can do.
DM behavior influences how important it is for the players to keep a diverse set of abilities at their disposal. If your DM is fairly easy going you can afford to be a tad lax in this regard. Some DMs (like myself) kill without compunction and its the players responsibility to insure that they maintain a diverse assortment of abilities. The wizard is traditionally the parties problem solver and the rest of the players are going to have to chip in to fill this role if their is no wizard.
A group can get along without many classes, and the mages are a few of them. Healers, such as druids and clerics, and scouts, such as rogues, and even fighters (not just he class, all the fighting guys, like barbarians, and, well, fighters, and paladins, etc.) are a bit tougher to go without, but any group can work. Though tis advised that you have at least one good front lines guy.
I think your group will manage just fine. Our current group lacks a proper arcane spellcaster in Eberron and we're 7th level. You have a druid and a cleric, so you can have extra-large quantities of healing between them. One of them might also take a few more blasting spells, or perhaps move to the front line (if not there already) to compensate. Your rogue can start making good use of UMD if they aren't already. Your group might have a few problems with large groups of weaker creatures, but if your psion, cleric, and druid can manage a few battlefield control spells you'll be fine.
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In my book it always comes down to the same important point: the players (PCs and DM) should have fun.
If no one wants to play the mage/cleric/... just go without that class. It might be more challenging (i.e. fun) and might require some adjustments from the DM (especially if she's running a published adventure), but that can lead to great roleplay and fun.
I've DM-ed games without healer, and, more recently, without wizard-type characters.
Yes it is possible.
The question I have is this: can a party of 5 10th level PC's survive Dungeon-style adventures without an arcane caster and if not, what changes would you suggest to the game to make this a viable choice?
I've run/am running an epic game that from before level 15 had trouble keeping a wizard (and at times a cleric) around, and they worked out pretty well. They beat the Quicksilver Hourglass (for 30th level characters - which they weren't, but are now) with only a 13th level wizard casting cleric/fighter/magic-user for the most of it.
You have two strong divine casters and a Psion, you should be fine.
If you need a specific spell, you can always just buy an item like a scroll of a wand that has that spell and the rogue can use UMD.
If the adventure requires a specific spell and assumes that a wizard has access to that spell, then add an item with that power into the treasure along the way.
Even focusing on Metacreativity the Psion should be able to fill some of the holes left by the wizard.
If your Druid focuses on the easier Healing than that leaves the cleric to do the higher level healing and Abjuration effects.
In short, its very possbile. My group often goes without an arcane caster and even more often without a divine caster (they blow a lot of money on CLW potions and wands). It isn't uncommon for us to go entirely without spellcasting and we usually do just fine.
Creative Director
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It seems that in the majority of the games I run, there's never a "classic" D&D wizard. And my PCs seem to do okay. Having access to flashy area of effect spells like fireball, travel spells like teleport, and all the other wizardly stuff helps, but the game works fine when there's no wizards around.
But yeah, psions can pretty much fill the wizard's role with ease. Often, they do so better than the wizard (especially if your game style has a lot of rest breaks so the psion can replenish his points).
The only thing that might cause your group a problem is if you don't allow the easy purchase of magic items.
For example, most decent-sized communities should have someone who can sell potions of Fly, and wands of Cure Light Wounds. And if a PC wants to get an item like Winged Boots, he should at least be able to find a spellcaster who can make them to order. If these options are available to your PCs, then the party mix you've got should be just fine.
If your group prefers a play-style where magic items are never bought and sold, on the other hand, then it becomes much, much harder to have a group that doesn't fill all the roles, and therefore, much more important that the remaining spellcasters divvy up the responsibilities of the PC that left the group. This means the druid needs to help out with Dispel Magic and with healing, the cleric needs to branch out beyond just healing, and all three spellcasters need to compare options to determine who is best able to help the team with things like flying.