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I was thinking about how saga edition handles skills, and some other comments I have made about 4e and came up with something to prattle on about.
Saga edition:
Unskilled = 1/2 level + applicable stat
Skilled = 1/2 level + 5 + applicable stat
Well, for D&D I still want a bit more than A or B, so here goes my thoughts:
Untrained and Trained only - some skills remain trained only. If you are untrained in a trained only skill, you have no chance of success.
Untrained - 1/2 level + stat mod
basic training - 1/2 level + stat mod + 5
Fully trained - level + stat mod + 5
A cahracter is considered to have basic training in EVERY skill on their class skill list. They can pick a number of skills = to their skill points to be fully trained in.
In addition, instead of fully training a skill, a character can spend a skill point to become basic trained in a non class skill. They could then advance that to fully trained for another skill point.
This way a fighter can always climb and jump and intimidate, etc. A rogue still ends up with a heap of skills, but doesn't have to put as much effort into balancing them against each other.
I am not sure how multiclassing/prestige classing would work out.
Oh, and before someone brings it up, yeah, I copied the 5 down from the saga rules. It may or may not be a good number, and it may or may not mandate rewriting the DC tables.
But anyway, for example:
A level 1 fighter with no extra skills woud have:
no chance at skills that cannot be used untrained
0+stat in untrained skills
5+stat in basic trained skills
6+stat in fully trained skills (of which they would have 2)
a level 20 fighter would have
no chance at skills that cannot be used untrained
10+stat in untrained skills
15+stat in basic trained skills
25+stat in fully trained skills (of which they would have 2)
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This is an interesting idea. I also looked at saga edtion skills and liked it for the most part. I would love to add them to my game but hesitate for a few reasons.
A) I would like to have a Character sheet that would make it easier on the players part to handle. As far as im aware this hasnt been done yet, but if someone is capable of doing this I would be grateful.
B) One of the things I dislike about the way skills work is the strict way that each class has certian skills and very little leeway in other skills. For example when I played in the SCAP I asked my DM if I could switch out my familiar for all the interaction skills like bluff, diplomacy ect as class skils instead.He agreed and while I was a little short on skill points he was a great diplomaser (Sp?). It added a little depth to the character a made him diffrent from other wizards.Also he was a noble and it fit his character to have this ability. Anyway long story short. I think having access to diffrent skills allows you to customize your character a little more. However unless I read this wron it dosent seem as if this is possible as its written.
C) Im also not sure how using this affects skill DCs as well.
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This is an interesting idea. I also looked at saga edtion skills and liked it for the most part. I would love to add them to my game but hesitate for a few reasons.
A) I would like to have a Character sheet that would make it easier on the players part to handle. As far as im aware this hasnt been done yet, but if someone is capable of doing this I would be grateful.
B) One of the things I dislike about the way skills work is the strict way that each class has certian skills and very little leeway in other skills. For example when I played in the SCAP I asked my DM if I could switch out my familiar for all the interaction skills like bluff, diplomacy ect as class skils instead.He agreed and while I was a little short on skill points he was a great diplomaser (Sp?). It added a little depth to the character a made him diffrent from other wizards.Also he was a noble and it fit his character to have this ability. Anyway long story short. I think having access to diffrent skills allows you to customize your character a little more. However unless I read this wron it dosent seem as if this is possible as its written.
C) Im also not sure how using this affects skill DCs as well.
A: I would, for now, make a note somewhere with A, B, and C skill level. (untrained, basic trained, and fully trained) and then just jot down A+n (where n is the stat bonus) on the total line
I think once you have played the character for a while, remebering A, B, and C would be easy, and so it would be no more complex then it is now, but leveling up would be much easier (since you only update A, B, and C)
B: You can get that type of diversity pretty easily with this system. You want diplomacy, bluff, sense motive. That is 3 of your skill points at creation to get them to basic training. Your own example said you were never great at them.
C: It is looking like if we change the 5 to a 3, we get to keep pretty much the same curve as exists now, and not have to change anything.
In general there are only a few different ways skills are bought.
They can be mastered, taking a rank at every level from 1 to 20. Casters with concentrate, etc.
They can be exploited. 5 ranks in something to get a synnergy bonus to a skill you have mastered, and then never touched again. An alternate form of this is meeting a feat or PrC prereq.
They can be plateaued. For example a character wants to be able to reliably use wands with Use magic device. THey put enough ranks in that they only need a 5+ to use a wand, then they are done.
Skills are dipped for versatility. Putting 1 rank in each skill you could not use untrained, but is on your class list.
Or skills are dipped for character, which there is no problem with.
Obvioulsy there are a few variationis of this, like not being able to quite master all skills, but putting as many ranks in them as available, etc etc
So anyway, want to master a skill, spend a skill point on it.
Synnergy bonuses would be going out the window, so that exploit is gone. Feat and PrC requirements would change to total modifier instead of ranks. Probably with a +2. Requires perform 3 ranks would become requires perform +5.
Characters no longer worry about versatility, because they get all skills on their class list. If they want a non-class skill, then they spend a skill point for real versatility.
I think it simplifies the decision making process nicely.
I still need to think about how multiclassing would work. I don't actually own Saga Edition, so I don't have the reference.
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According to saga edtion rules when you multiclass you gain access to the class skills of your new class.You do not gain any new trained skills however.Basiclly the diffrence between trained and untrained skills is the +5 bonus on skill checks.The number of trained skills a 1st level character can start with is based on character class and INT modifier. A character can take the Skill Training feat, this allows the character to choose 1 addtional untrained skill and make it trained granting them the +5 bonus. The Skill Focus feat allows you to gain an addtional +5 on a trained skill. So essentially a skill check looks like this (Skill Bonus = 1/2 level + Key Ability Modifier + Trained + Skill Focus + Misc. Modifier).
While I like your system I think adding the skill mastery level would be a little powerful if combined with the Skill Focus feat show above. I do like choosing addtional skills with points as you mentioned, but saga addtion seems to have done away with the actual indiviual point system in favour of dumping every thing into a handful of skills. Im not sure if this was a good move or not, but it does seem to simplfy the process of choosing skills.
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According to saga edtion rules when you multiclass you gain access to the class skills of your new class.You do not gain any new trained skills however.Basiclly the diffrence between trained and untrained skills is the +5 bonus on skill checks.The number of trained skills a 1st level character can start with is based on character class and INT modifier. A character can take the Skill Training feat, this allows the character to choose 1 addtional untrained skill and make it trained granting them the +5 bonus. The Skill Focus feat allows you to gain an addtional +5 on a trained skill. So essentially a skill check looks like this (Skill Bonus = 1/2 level + Key Ability Modifier + Trained + Skill Focus + Misc. Modifier).
While I like your system I think adding the skill mastery level would be a little powerful if combined with the Skill Focus feat show above. I do like choosing addtional skills with points as you mentioned, but saga addtion seems to have done away with the actual indiviual point system in favour of dumping every thing into a handful of skills. Im not sure if this was a good move or not, but it does seem to simplfy the process of choosing skills.
Like I said, it adds more depth than the straight saga system.
The current mastery is identical to the current system with a rank at every level
basic training is identical to max ranks at level 1, with 1 additional rank every other level
so, none of the other feats scale, skill focus is still +3, the +2 to two skills is still +2