No worries here.
I always think it's a good idea to talk to the critters before you (hopefully) whale on them!
Assuming of course, that the critter is willing to talk, and the DM is good enough (like ours) to have the creature talk without the creature somehow gaining the DM's knowledge! :)
Seriously, the only problem I see here is that this is a big room, and it can fly. AND turn invisible. Unless we get really clever, or REALLY lucky, (AND IC cooperates) we almost can't win this one. The best we can hope for would be to drive it off, as JSL mentioned earlier.
(Which would give our diabolical DM ample opportunity to have this lil critter be a constant thorn to us in the future. Would Veran ever sleep well again if thought that lil miss sunshine here might stage a rematch?)
Character wise, Slidell has no intention of keeping any bargain with this thing, any more than IT will keep up it's end of a bargain! Slidell has at least a little background with these things, and knows that any contract you make with them is only as good as far as you can twist, bend, or otherwise mutilate the wording of the contract!
It is interesting to see Salome appear to be willing to bargain with it. So far she seems like the straightest arrow of the bunch. (Possibly barring Ehlissa!) So my (character's) first instinct is that maybe she's on the level, and willing to make a deal. After reflection of course, Sli will probably realize that Salome simply would never make a bargain with a creature of evil.
And to Sli, it is certainly not wrong to use a creatures' own weapons against it! And deceit are one of a demons/devils primary weapons!
All in all, I have no problems with how it's going. Just wish I could post more often so I could keep up the conversation! :)
@JSL~
Question. How does 'Line of sight' vs 'Line of Effect' work?
Obviously, if you can SEE your target, you have 'line of sight'. If you have a straight shot at it without anything else in the way, you have 'Line of Effect'. So you can cast things like , say, Magic missile. Magic Missile ignores cover, so you can hit something you can see even if you would miss with a bow due to the cover.
OK, the question is, even if Sli can't 'see' Veran because he is in a shadow or something, he knows that Veran can see him. So he HAS 'Line of Sight', he just doesn't have a visual yet. So can he cast the swap spell?
Sigh, Nevermind, I think I just answered my own question. probably not. Because otherwise, what would prevent me from targeting an invisible critter with my MM? (Unless there would be a difference because the MM is hostile, and the Swap spell only works on willing targets?)
I know with 'Hostile' spells, I have always played a 'you have to be able to see it to hit it' policy. That's one reason I like MM. As long as you can see your target through a tiny crack in the wall, you can hit with MM! Same goes for Dimension Door. Want to get to the other side of the locked door? Find a crack in the wall you can see through!
Anyhoo, just thinking out loud,... (VERY loud!) :)
Keep doing what you're doing. It's great. Ehlissa isn't Miss Wisdom so she hasn't twigged yet why Salome might be trying to have a chat with the creature.
Don't worry about what you're supposed to do. You're good. :D
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Keep doing what you're doing. It's great. Ehlissa isn't Miss Wisdom so she hasn't twigged yet why Salome might be trying to have a chat with the creature.
Don't worry about what you're supposed to do. You're good. :D
I agree. Salome's interaction with the lil'demon is driving us forward. We're all itching to fight (which is why we're all rolling initiative, I think), but talking is great. Keep it talking!
To NSpicer: regarding Spellthief abilities. Nope, nope, and nope: Vesh is currently only able to steal spells or spell effects (spells already cast on the user) of zero or first level. At fourth he'll be able to steal second level spells. At fifth, spell-like abilities. At sixth, 3rd level spells and effects. And, at seventh, he'll be able to absorb spells targeted at him.
The class has a lot going for it, but it's kind of a slow-buildup kind of thing. I'm going to stick with it b/c I feel like I've invested a lot in the build. I forget sometime until I re-read Vesh's character sheet, but everything I've done with him (skill selections, Varisian tattoo, etc.) has been calculated. Eventually, he's aiming at becoming an arcane trickster (but that's 11th level at the earliest, though I could make a case for it being 6th level instead...stay tuned).
His steal spell ability combined with a 3rd level arcane trickster's impromptu sneak attack ability. Delicious.
Keep doing what you're doing. It's great.,...
Don't worry about what you're supposed to do. You're good. :D
Yeah Dreamer, In short, what HE said! :D
1. First, I apologize for speaking for the group without consulting first.
Don't sweat it. We're all counting on you to play that role for the party anyway. Salome is the wisest...and she's also charismatic. By my interpretation of her character, she's sensible and less prone to youthful mistakes. I've tried to play Zieke off as experienced (i.e., meaning older), but only wise when it comes to tactical decision-making in line with his fighting skills...whether as an individual or trying to exert an influence along those lines over the group (which should set up interesting roleplay situations). He's smart, but not nearly as wise or charismatic in how he conveys information to people or tries to convince them to do something.
Hence, I perceive a potential alliance brewing between him and Salome (if she can get past her distrust of men!) whereby they can work together to accomplish great things on the party's behalf. But it's all about contributing in the roles we're best-suited for...
Also, as an aside, I view Ehlissa as kind of a bridging character between the personalities and mindsets of Salome and Zieke. But she's also younger and still learning and growing into her own capabilities. Down the road, however, I can easily see the paladin surpassing everyone in leadership capacity. But she's got to embrace that role and grow into it over the course of the adventure.
Of course, all of that's just how I see the current characters so far. Maybe that's not how any of it looks to everyone else, though? I'm just sharing my own perceptions and thoughts...
2. I don't see Salome as "bargaining," per se. We're certainly not going to back down. Instead, she's just laying out the facts -- and hopefully delaying the confrontation to our advantage.
Which I honestly expected you were doing. I'm just roleplaying Zieke's in-character response to it.
3. Is the quasit going to give up Veran without a fight? I sincerely doubt it. I don't think that anything Salome said is going to change the outcome of this encounter significantly. However, after looking at others' comments about fighting the quasit (and seeing that I only have three 1st or 2nd level spells left -- which represent my total healing capacity at this point), I thought I'd try something "outside the box" rather than do what everyone else seems to have done at this juncture: shoot first, take a beating, and limp out either successfully or unsuccessfully.
Awww...but that strategy works so well for us. ;)
4. Zieke is right; if we can keep the thing talking and engaged, it may buy is time to pinpoint it (maybe even determine a weakness) and possibly even shorten the fight.
I hope Zieke is right. We've got to find this thing before we can even consider opposing it in any kind of realistic fashion with a chance of success. Rags is right about the terrain problems in the room. With a ceiling that high, the creature can basically retreat at will and we'll have start over from scratch in trying to find her again. So we need to mark her somehow...or pin her down somewhere. Or, at least, that would be Zieke's tactical advice. ;)
--Neil
To NSpicer: regarding Spellthief abilities. Nope, nope, and nope: Vesh is currently only able to steal spells or spell effects (spells already cast on the user) of zero or first level. At fourth he'll be able to steal second level spells. At fifth, spell-like abilities. At sixth, 3rd level spells and effects. And, at seventh, he'll be able to absorb spells targeted at him.
Well...there goes that strategy. But it's something to keep in mind for when Vesh fully matures into those abilities.
Eventually, he's aiming at becoming an arcane trickster (but that's 11th level at the earliest, though I could make a case for it being 6th level instead...stay tuned).
Knowing what I know about the overall premise behind Rise of the Runelords (which admittedly gains me nothing given that JSL is keeping us all honest by changing up things), a spellthief mixed with an arcane trickster at high levels could really play a unique role in the overall adventure path. I'd encourage you to stick with it.
--Neil
BTW, the quasit might talk some trash. Don't take it personally. In light of our previous discussions on sensitive subject matter, I will keep it in moderation and in character for the creature. But it's not a very nice creature.
Also, in light of previous discussions, and in spite of my pointing out some things that I notice, I hope it's clear that I (the player) have a pretty thick skin and it takes a lot to faze me. (I spend all day listening to things that would make your hair curl. Seriously. Plus I'm a mom.) Though it does help to know who's pulling the strings. :)
One thing that makes this playing group especially awesome is the fact that we do hold each other in positive regard, and clearly respect each other, player to player, players to DM and vice versa. As my old friend liked to say, "thou art cool."
Keep doing what you're doing. It's great. Ehlissa isn't Miss Wisdom so she hasn't twigged yet why Salome might be trying to have a chat with the creature.
Don't worry about what you're supposed to do. You're good. :D
QFT.
I thought it was perfectly in character and not a ad idea either, to keep the little thing talking.
Is it just me, or has this not started very well for us?
I had those exact same feelings in the last battle. So far, so good for Zieke this go-round, but it's still early. Invisible Castle could quickly abandon us all...fickle as it can be... ;-)
--Neil
Is it just me, or has this not started very well for us?
I'd say it's going about normal,... for us! ;P
If it wasn't for that stoopid jump-the-gun mage,... (Oh, wait, that's me. Nevermind!)
We seem to be one of those groups that never quite seem to have things go according to plan, (to put it politely), But somehow always manage to come out on top!
We are definitely the 'James Bond' Team, (or with our personalities, maybe that would be 'The A-Team') of the Pathfinder world! :D
Actually, I think that for the most part, we're doing OK so far. It's only been one round, and I think that Ehlissa and Salome have pretty much taken care of the quasit. (If not, with JSL away, I can at least pretend that we're winning for the next 12-24 hours.)
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Actually, I think that for the most part, we're doing OK so far. It's only been one round, and I think that Ehlissa and Salome have pretty much taken care of the quasit. (If not, with JSL away, I can at least pretend that we're winning for the next 12-24 hours.)
After seeing Ehlissa and Salome post, I retract my post about things not going well. Here! Here!!
Is it just me, or has this not started very well for us?
Not for Mal it didn't. Nor has it taken a turn for the better.
Just wanted to throw out an apology for any confusion Sli caused with his early post. (Darn impatient mages!) ;)
I've been thinking why this was so confusing, because I know I've done that before.
It finally dawned on my over-worked, sleep-deprived brain that I (probably) always went BEFORE the monsters those other times!
Oh, and GO GIRL POW-WAH! (This is where, in my old home game, my character would have just sat back and summoned a bag of popcorn and watched the show!) :D
Er, I'm quite frankly stunned by Ehlissa. She's gone all manga!
Er, I'm quite frankly stunned by Ehlissa. She's gone all manga!
Heh, NEVER mess with the 'quiet' ones, they're always the worst ones to tick off! :)
(Of course, I don't think anyone's ever accused Ehlissa of being quiet,...)
Er, I'm quite frankly stunned by Ehlissa. She's gone all manga!
She certainly chose the right moment for it... ;-)
Hooo-boy, even before JSL posted that last Wrathspawn attack, I had the feeling that Sli was in hot water! ;P
Um,... I'm open to suggestions guys and gal! If Sli takes one more hit, he's a goner. (And, before you ask, I brilliantly blew my one and only Transposition scroll to get me INTO this mess!) :P
I just took 8 points of dmg in one round, which means I have a good chance of losing a spell, even if I had one I could cast that might affect the wrathspawn. (I have summon monster 1, that's all I have that might affect it)
IF I can make the standing up/ climbing out rolls (which would take up my Move and Standard actions) as part of a withdrawal action, (so no AoO), then I may have a chance. Otherwise the best I could hope for is to claim the Climb out as my 'free' 5' step. OTHERwise, even if I summon a monster, AND it attacks it instead of me, I would still take an AoO climbing out. :P
Oh, and I'm pretty sure I'm gonna have more company in a minute. It's about to get REAL crowded in this well! (Maybe I can summon more on purpose, and hope they fight each other? Or get them to interfere with each other?) :(
(tired sigh) Whilst I ponder my seemingly limited options, any other ideas?
JSL-what about this?
Slidell still has his lantern (on his elbow as last described) I presume the dunking has extinguished it, but it still has oil in it. If it is still intact, what about hitting the wrathspawn with it to break it and cover it in oil, so I can ignite it? (With Prestidigitation or a matchstick, or whatever.) Would that be vs it's full AC, or it's touch AC? How much dmg would the wimpy mage have to do to break it? Or if this is even an option, would it be better to smash it on the side of the cauldron, and hope the oil burned on top of the liquid? (With my luck, its flammable, and I'll blow myself up!) :)
(You can respond with what Sli might actually know/think instead of what you and I know, if you wish.)
Just trying to think of a way to stay alive for another round!
(How do I get myself INTO these messes?!?!) ;P
How do I get myself INTO these messes?...
I blame Veran. ;-)
(Maybe I can summon more on purpose, and hope they fight each other? Or get them to interfere with each other?) :(
They don't seem to have any trouble cooperating with one another so far. So I don't summoning any more will put them at odds with one another.
IF I can make the standing up/ climbing out rolls (which would take up my Move and Standard actions) as part of a withdrawal action, (so no AoO), then I may have a chance. Otherwise the best I could hope for is to claim the Climb out as my 'free' 5' step. OTHERwise, even if I summon a monster, AND it attacks it instead of me, I would still take an AoO climbing out. :P
I don't think you can use a 5-foot step as part of a movement that requires a Climb check. I'm not even sure if you can use a Climb check as part of a withdrawal action and still avoid AoO's either. Provided you can regain your feet and make a Concentration check (by casting defensively), you should be able to cast summon monster I without any trouble (or AoO's). I'd think that should give you a diversion to then move away at all possible speed.
(tired sigh) Whilst I ponder my seemingly limited options, any other ideas?
::insert Zieke's voice:: "Yeah, stay behind everyone and stop putting yourself within arm's reach of the big bad guys! Oh, wait...too late for that again..." ;-)
--Neil
(IF he lives through this, he WILL learn. It is a slow and painful process, but he WILL learn!) ;P
Yah, I have a high enough Concentration roll that I could probably make the caster check, even with the damage I've taken this round.
The trouble is, the critter won't appear until my turn NEXT round, which gives this thing another chance to play 'Whack-A-Mage'.
Also, I'm guessing (from JSL's post of what Slidell felt) that it's the blood going in the cauldron that's summoning these things. If I summon a critter in here to help me, and it gets killed in here, I just added ANOTHER Wrathspawn to our growing list of friends! ;P
Um,... WHY do I get the feeling that I should maybe start rolling up another character? :D
(I get the feeling that the scenario designers, or JSL for that matter, never predicted that the low HP character would be STOOPID enough to teleport himself directly INTO the spawn-generator!) ;P
::Deep, Basso voice:: "Wizard needs food, BADLY!"
The original GAUNTLET coin-fed video game of course!
OK, I'll decide and try to post his (last?) action by lunchtimey. Wish me luck! :)
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I like the oil-on-water idea! Very Cuyahoga River.
I agree with JSL, I think this is very good--and very outside-the-box--thinking from a tactical point of view. Don't be constrained by the rules; go for it! It's a very Slidell thing to do!
Slidell's luck was really out, his spirit and his fortune low,
Alone he fought, alone he stood within the friendly lantern's glow
Hey, wizard, don't be so upset, hey Slidell, you're not beaten yet!
Go go Slidell, you know what they say
Go go Slidell you'll make them all pay
Shalala Slidell you're doing fine, you and your tactics, ahead of your time!
Slidell Stormraven...eco-terrorist! I like it. ;-)
--Neil
Yes, yesterday was Mother's Day. But, today is XP day! 5280 as of 5/12. w00t!
Heheh, thanks all! I needed that!
Yes, i agree that the not-very-spellcaster approach might actually be the best of a lot of bad choices right now. And it is DEFINITELY a 'Slidell' action! The fact that he bears most of the immediate risk only makes it more so!
@JSL- I will only ask for leniency, and not that you ignore the rules completely. Thank you once more for your good work in making this game fun! (Especially for those of us who tend to get in 'over our heads'!) :)
I will also ask everyone's forgiveness ahead of time, because as JSL pointed out, a couple of GOOD rolls and he's the 'Smart, survivor' hero. A couple of BAD rolls and he's the goo-covered, roasted former mage.
In other words, this MAY bring out the 'lack of brevity' in me! ;P
Sorry I haven't posted yet, work got busy when I thought it was gonna slow down!
I will have it posted tonight. Thanks all.
And remember, I come after you -- Salome can do first-aid or otherwise come to Slidell's assistance. Or smack him, if that would be more fitting. :)
And remember, I come after you -- Salome can do first-aid or otherwise come to Slidell's assistance. Or smack him, if that would be more fitting. :)
Heheh, I'm figuring by the time I'm done, a little of BOTH will probably be appropriate! :D
Sorry taking so long, STILL at work! :P Enough time to check & read, but not write! soon, Tonite, I swear!
Given our recent discussion, I was wondering if monsters celebrate Mother's Day and give Lamashtu homemade cards and breakfast in bed. Hmmm.
The weird thing is, they can be monsters one minute, and angels the next! (Or vice-versa.) But the homemade cards were nice. Wait, are you talking about actual children here, or is it just me?
The weird thing is, they can be monsters one minute, and angels the next! (Or vice-versa.) But the homemade cards were nice. Wait, are you talking about actual children here, or is it just me?
Um,... Yes? :)
On a side note, I noticed that Salome activated her Prot/evil amulet as a swift action. Is that something that you paid extra for? Or is that something that JSL decided was possible and I just missed that post? I ask 'cuz getting my own prot/evil amulet activated is sounding like a REALLY good idea right now!
(And as a side bonus, you are protected from ALL mind-effecting magics from evil outsiders (like 'BOO') AND from physical (melee) attacks until you attack it first!)
I didn't go into all the details before because you were not high enough level to make one, but a swift activation for a defensive item cost 2x normal - though I'm still playing with that and wondering if it should be more like 1.5x.
Cool, thx!
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I went from doing a possible 14 points of damage on the Wrathspawn holding Mal to doing 7 points because of near-misses. Sorry Mal, in this case close was not close enough.
We must not be in those "sweet spot" levels that game designers talk so much about when they talk about 3.5e.
We might just be close to a tipping-point here. I know Zieke is up, but running low on hp. I don't know where Ehlissa and Salome are on that count. Slidell is up a creek unless he can stay under water. I can play a little with this Wrathspawn, but if it gets a few good licks in, I'm toast.
All-in-all, we may need to stage a not-so-tactical retreat here. This next round will tell us for sure, but I don't see enough rolls going our way to feel good about fighting it out. Especially if the Quasit is just healing up to come back and kick more butt.
We're so dead.
Ehlissa's on full hp, but there's no way she will retreat without Malcolm. I can try intimidating strike next attack but it all depends on whether Zieke can drop the the thing we're fighting. If he does then she'll move onto the one carrying Malcolm.
I have a feeling this could be verging on TPK if we're not lucky.
I don't mean to metagame too much...as I'm infinitely more interested in the story than the numbers/mechanics of the game. And this is clearly an intense, drama-laced scene...and I love that kind of stuff! It makes for the most memorable games. But, having said that...and just from a design standpoint...I think we're overmatched (in CR/EL terms) and that's probably true even from the very beginning of the encounter. This quasit and the 3 wrathspawn that were present at the start of battle are probably going to fall into the "Very Difficult" category (i.e., EL 1-4 higher than the average party level).
And, through our own trail-and-error, we've compounded our problems by summoning a couple of extra wrathspawn into the mix...which has even further skewed the overall threat level of what we're facing as 3rd level PCs. It's probably entered the "Overpowering" category now (i.e., EL 5+ higher than the average party level). Even at full-strength (okay, maybe 75%?), we're staring at some probable losses. The typical description of an "Overpowering" encounter from the DMG is: "The PCs should run. If they don't, they will almost certainly lose." And although some of us may yet survive this thing and avoid the TPK, this is probably one of those encounters that could easily kill off a couple of characters, too. And that should make for an interesting roleplay situation provided some of us survive to reflect on it...
Anyway, I don't know that I'd suggest changing how we handled anything. The tide looked pretty favorable at the start. But I think that was merely an aspect of how the dice fell. If not for those lucky (and damaging) hits on the quasit, imagine how much worse this would be if she was still there hurling more magic around in the midst of these brawling wrathspawn. Regardless, considering the odds, I think we've made a good stand so far. I'm just not certain how much longer it can last. If Slidell and Zieke do go down (along with Mal), that's half the party out of commission. Salome is the only healer that could save them from falling past -10 hp. If she gets taken out, we're all done.
Just my rambling two-cents,
--Neil
She can indeed grant flanking.
As she would say, "Whallop the blighter, old chap!"
I just realized that when Zieke dropped the first wrathspawn, he forgot to cleave the second. I'll allow him two attacks next round to make up for it. Also, I'll allow that he could take a 5' step to gain a flanking bonus from Ehlissa (she can grant flanking, but not benefit from it herself, right?) So the make-up cleave will be at +6 and the regular attack at +8.
I have...Cleave?
::checks character sheet::
I'll be damned! I have Cleave! Let's hear it for second chances! Woo! :-)
Of course, I'll also be sickened. So it'll be +4 on the make-up cleave and +6 on the regular attack. :-(
If Salome uses Close Wounds on Mal to get him out of negatives, I'll allow him a bluff check to get a sneak attack on the wrathspawn that his carrying him.
How does close wounds work? Nevermind. Found it in the Spell Compendium. Kind of an odd-sounding spell description. Will it just stabilize Mal, leaving him unconscious at 0 hp? Or will it prevent him from taking damage last round and restore him to 2 hp? It's worded really strange...
As for Slidell, I think someone's going to have to fish him out.
Presumably, Salome is the only one positioned to do that. And she's got two wrathspawn to deal with before she can really think of aiding him...and that's after she spends this round casting close wounds to save Mal. So, I'm not sure we'll get Slidell out until we've got a perfectly pickled prestidigitator. How's that for alliteration? ;-)
--Neil
Positively perfect and precisely posited, o paragon of pugilism and pointy pain!
Positively perfect and precisely posited, o paragon of pugilism and pointy pain!
I proffer profound praise for your penultimate panache and pronunciation, pal. ;-)
...take the cleave at +6 (you weren't sickened then) and the regular attack at +6 instead of +8.
Check. I'll wait until Slidell and Salome take their actions and we start back at the top of the round before daring to roll the dice.
My reading of close wounds is... *snip*
Interesting. Okay, now I see the value of the spell. Until you explained it that way, I was trying to mentally justify why it qualified as a 2nd level spell. But ranged healing and undoing a potentially lethal blow in the round it's executed is definitely a cut above CLW.
Thanks,
--Neil