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This Adventure Path is different than any other AP. It is filled with demons. I know that in my homebrew, Demogorgon is based in the realm of nightmare. I don't want him to be called Demogorgon, however, and I don't want the players to recognize him. I want the players to be mystified by the strange creatures of the realm of nightmare. My players are fairly experienced. Any advice about changing the Prince of demons?
This Adventure Path is different than any other AP. It is filled with demons. I know that in my homebrew, Demogorgon is based in the realm of nightmare. I don't want him to be called Demogorgon, however, and I don't want the players to recognize him. I want the players to be mystified by the strange creatures of the realm of nightmare. My players are fairly experienced. Any advice about changing the Prince of demons?
Presuming you are describing foreshadowing earlier on, there are many ways to address not revealing whom thier ultimate nemesis is.
One way to take it is that the NPC cultists in questions have some of the details wrong but the principles correct, in the same vein as the not-readily-apparent sameness of the Elder Elemental Gawd and Tharizdun in Greyhawk. Cultists, especially ones affiliated with 'creatures of the realm of nightmare' could also lead your PC's further astray by running into homebrewed villainous types that are alienists with a fetish for squid-faced apes for example...
One can simultaneously hide and reveal the basic gist of the Big D without flat out clobbering them with it until the latter stages, depending upon how you wish to present it.
Using the example of pseudonatural apes (dire apes, ad nauseam), the immediately obvious 'threat' behind the scenes is " oh noes, squidbat critter wranglers! " while the more perceptive who pick up on the foes' recurrant summonings of critters wholly affiliated in theme with the Big D will ponder and wonder about the bad guys' choice of beasties...
you could change the baboon faces to hyenas j/k
Not quite what I meant.
What I meant to express was the idea that the players (not the characters) know about Demogorgon. If I describe the Nefaliam, Prince of Nightmares, as a two headed baboon with four tentacles and two tails, they'll know who it really is. If I describe him as a six legged man with the head of a shark and a wombat, they won't know what it is.
Essentially what I am going to do with Demogorgon is alter his appearance, like the Kyber demons in Eberron. Make him look different.
Essentially what I am going to do with Demogorgon is alter his appearance, like the Kyber demons in Eberron. Make him look different.
Simple option: You could have him look like two separate entities, who act and speak with unsettling coordination, and who are treated (mechanically) as one entity. This lets you keep the split personality thing going.
That's very interesting. Perhaps they could even have different abilities, one side casts the spells and one goes into rages and slaughters everything. They could even look quite different.
Perhaps the agressive one looks like a great chitnious shark covered in whipping tentacles without a head, just a gaping maw like the saarlac, And the other looks like a giant serpent.
Whatever you do, keep the duality aspect of the original Demo
To facciliate this, how about a "janus" approach - one roughly humanoid being, but with two faces/front aspects, both believeing themself to be the dominant half ? Make them contrast as much as you like, say, have one half be a self-mutilating flayed freakshow ?
Or something akin to a half-golem (MM-II ) or a metamorphosis interrupted- left side some insectily nightmare, right side some being of deadly, unforgiving beauty... and then have indiviual parts switch sides. Do this perhaps in random patterns like the insectile arm/limbs jutting from the humanoid shoulder or a perfectly shaped eye staring out at you from a praying mantis' head ... and everything placed differently on the next encounter/foreshadowing ?
Of course, there will always be the trusty "voluminous robe" standby... from out of which and underneath the brim too many tentacles poke out and swish about menacingly.... and let the shadows of the cowl be filled by whatever a player/character imagines and fears most (take a look at Heroes of Horror Phantasmal Slayer and its phantasmal facade ability for inspiration). Add some non-optical trademarks like a vile stench or buzzing sensation on the onlookers skin, or ven underneath the skin, lile insect-larvae burying through the flesh and you will have soemthing that will hopefully creep out the players even if they only dream of it. Nothing more unsettling than waking up with a taste or smell from your dream still lingering in the room....
Oh, and for descriptive text.... channeling Lovecraft never hurts. "Blasphemous" etc are wonderful adjectives
That's very interesting. Perhaps they could even have different abilities, one side casts the spells and one goes into rages and slaughters everything. They could even look quite different.
Perhaps the agressive one looks like a great chitnious shark covered in whipping tentacles without a head, just a gaping maw like the saarlac, And the other looks like a giant serpent.
Make one side male and the other side female. That should confuse the issue for your players. Otherwise your well on your way here to having a unique Demon Lord. Stat it up appropreatly and work a bit on cults and rituals and you should be good to go. Try and throw a little something about your unique Demon Lord into every adventure and you'll not only forshadow the whole AP but these little additions will act as a kind of feedback loop fleshing out your Demon Lord so that it is a much more fully fledged creature by the time the later parts of the campaign approach and you really need to know how this creature thinks and behaves.
Not quite what I meant.
What I meant to express was the idea that the players (not the characters) know about Demogorgon. If I describe the Nefaliam, Prince of Nightmares, as a two headed baboon with four tentacles and two tails, they'll know who it really is. If I describe him as a six legged man with the head of a shark and a wombat, they won't know what it is.
Essentially what I am going to do with Demogorgon is alter his appearance, like the Kyber demons in Eberron. Make him look different.
You could also take a page from H.P. Lovecraft and others of his time, and simply use Demo's statblock whathaveyou, but alter the 'special effects' and 'critter themes'. This is most noteworthy with Nyarlathotep's many many incarnations. They all have thier own cultists what have you, but all the different incarnations are still the same entity.
The King in Yellow especially comes to mind ...
aehh, the King in Yellow is not Nyaralatothep but Hastur. Are we thinking of the Dark Pharao perchance ? And Nyaralatothep's 'thousand masks' do significantly vary in power, methods, vulnerability and dreadfulness. Say the Hunter in the Dark is significantly more vulnerable than the Bloated Woman...
Nice idea in the OP btw (although a bit late for my camapign ), since the one thing that really irked me about Demogorgon ever since I saw his "mugshot" in the the old AD&D MM back in the eighties are his utterly ridiculuous looks. Twin baboon heads and whippy tentacles ?
Crickey !
The cover of Dungeon #150 would be the rare exception....
Erm, damn, surprised I borked up my CoC Lore check. The principle still stands though - and for D&D, I sure wouldn't want to work up 1,000 stat blocks all by my lonesome.
Great call though. One could take inspiration from Nyarly's penchant for sowing mayhem in the puny human(oid) minds of the world(s) mayhap?
Well, a bit of thread necromancy, but I've decided on what Demogorgon will look like. In my campaign world, Hezrou are the equivalent of giant, half lizard, half frogs. They use their greater teleport power almost constantly, and warp the very dreamscape they walk upon. Demogorgon will be Akatun, the one who walks with skulls, the lord of the Blisks. Akatun is a pair of disemboweled blisks coming out of a giant crystal skull. The blisks constantly fight, but certainly work together against singular foes. Each of the blisks has it's own separate goal, but the underlying goal is the same. They both want to bring the savage tide to the material plane. Akatun claims he was born of the nightmare of the first god, and has the sole rights to the Dreamrealms.
How the pearls now work is that they bring a portion of the realm of Nightmare into Creation, warping and twisting creatures into Nightmare beasts... you know. The ones that you can never outrun, that seem to be unkillable, and there's always SO many of them.
Theoretically, if enough shadow pearls are made, the dreamworld will coincide with Creation and supercede it, making Akatun the most powerful deity in the planes.
Latrodectus, lady of the black, is Akatun's archnemesis. She is the Nightmare queen of death. Each time someone's dreamself dies, Latrodectus is there to take it. She believes that she has far more right to the Dreamrealms than Akatun, and hopes to battle him in time for it. She will be replacing Orcus.
Akatun's archnemesis is the Black Knight. The Black Knight has faithfully served Kyrinian, God of all dreams since his death. He has built fortresses in Nightmare, sailed the sea of Chaos, and is a judge on Peace. He occassionally even travels to the Material Plane as a messenger of Kyrinian, and he has a small cult that practices his fighting style. He will be replacing Gwyferferf or whatever her name is, the whirling fury.
Malcancathet will be remaining largely the same, although there is a good counterpart to her (succubi are Chaotic evil or chaotic good in this world.)
I had actually been thinking this since the last post. Particularly what creatures might make good 'duality' persons: lycanthropes, but silver and full moons not quite right for ST; centaur, minotaur, yuan ti would not see themselves as being 'dual' but humans as 1/2. My best bet was a Octoputaur afflicted with were-sharkedness.
Yep, yours sounds good-nice job.
Well, a bit of thread necromancy, but I've decided on what Demogorgon will look like. In my campaign world, Hezrou are the equivalent of giant, half lizard, half frogs. They use their greater teleport power almost constantly, and warp the very dreamscape they walk upon. Demogorgon will be Akatun, the one who walks with skulls, the lord of the Blisks. Akatun is a pair of disemboweled blisks coming out of a giant crystal skull. The blisks constantly fight, but certainly work together against singular foes. Each of the blisks has it's own separate goal, but the underlying goal is the same. They both want to bring the savage tide to the material plane. Akatun claims he was born of the nightmare of the first god, and has the sole rights to the Dreamrealms.
How the pearls now work is that they bring a portion of the realm of Nightmare into Creation, warping and twisting creatures into Nightmare beasts... you know. The ones that you can never outrun, that seem to be unkillable, and there's always SO many of them.
Theoretically, if enough shadow pearls are made, the dreamworld will coincide with Creation and supercede it, making Akatun the most powerful deity in the planes.
Latrodectus, lady of the black, is Akatun's archnemesis. She is the Nightmare queen of death. Each time someone's dreamself dies, Latrodectus is there to take it. She believes that she has far more right to the Dreamrealms than Akatun, and hopes to battle him in time for it. She will be replacing Orcus.
Akatun's archnemesis is the Black Knight. The Black Knight has faithfully served Kyrinian, God of all dreams since his death. He has built fortresses in Nightmare, sailed the sea of Chaos, and is a judge on Peace. He occassionally even travels to the Material Plane as a messenger of Kyrinian, and he has a small cult that practices his fighting style. He will be replacing Gwyferferf or whatever her name is, the whirling fury.
Malcancathet will be remaining largely the same, although there is a good counterpart to her (succubi are Chaotic...
A good take on things. Sounds like you don't need the help now after all. The idea of CG succubi is intriguing. What do they do, reward the virtuous? That would be serious incentive to go smite evil;-)
I suppose so. But the main purpose of succubi is to defend the dreamrealms. They may use different methods, but both get the job done.
I suppose so. But the main purpose of succubi is to defend the dreamrealms. They may use different methods, but both get the job done.
How do they defend the dreamrealms? I admit, I'm curious. And why is there a split in alignment?
Because that's what they where created to do. They where designed to guide people through the dreamrealms, before the existence of the Fey, the eladrins, or the equivalent of the tan'ari (there where still major and minor nightmares which haunted the dreams of mortals since the beginning.)
The split is representative of the geography of the dreamrealms. On one side is the beautiful eladrin, and on the other is the monstrous nightmares. Between is the ocean of thought.
