I’m looking for some advice on distilling the first six adventures down to their essential parts, for characters starting at 7th level.
I’ve recently had the good fortune to relocate near a group of players for whom I DM’ed a long Greyhawk campaign back in the 90’s. We’ve tried a one-off with new characters, but it was apparent that we preferred to pick up the old campaign.
The band’s exploits thus far include the defeat of the Temple of Elemental Evil, some forgettable times in the City of Greyhawk involving the “Falcon” adventures, and finally a trip into the Bright Desert where they ran through the I4-6 series “Pharaoh” to “The Tomb of Martek.” When we join our intrepid explorers, they’ve just marched wearily out of the Bright Desert and - with a bit of geographical fudging - into the Cairn Hills on their way back to Greyhawk.
My initial adventure outline is as follows:
7th level: “Encounter at Blackwall Keep”
9th level: “Three Faces of Evil” (probably adjusted and revised significantly)
11th level: “The Champion’s Belt” (with Ilthane making her appearance in the climax)
13th and beyond: Standard AOW starting with “The Spire of Long Shadows”
Can anyone help me by identifying any elements essential to the AOW campaign that will be missed by skipping “Whispering Cairn,” “Hall of Harsh Reflections,” and “A Gathering Winds,” so I can make the necessary adjustments to the remaining adventures?
Thanks a bunch for any help you can provide.
My plotting progresses:
1) I'm not quite sure how to transition from Blackwall to Diamond Lake. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
2) The transition from Three Faces of Evil to The Champion's Belt seems easy enough. Place a clue in the Ebon Triad's lair that "Apostolic Scrolls" have been given to Louis Raknian, the director of Free City Arena. Go to Greyhawk, where Eligos or other research reveals the purpose of the Apostolic Scrolls. Cue "The Champion's Belt."
3) From The Champion's Belt to Spire of Long Shadows
During the climactic battle, the dragon Ilthane reveals herself and mentions the name of her patron—Dragotha. (Not quite sure how to arrange her entrance. Polymorphed/disguised dragons are a dime a dozen, but otherwise it's hard to get a dragon into a city.)
Before the climax of the Champion’s Games, the PCs visited Eligos, and found that he has been murdered, his library destroyed. Clues suggested Eligos has ties with Tenser. Or maybe Celeste has left them a message. The ritual now thwarted (we hope!), they go to Tenser seeking council.
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One approach could be for Allustan (SP?) to contact your party. Perhaps a group had started uncovering the path, and failed. Your party is contacted to pick up the pieces. Then they have the low level contact, and perhaps some of the key items that they should have from the beginning of the path. Give them a summary of what the other party found... and go from there!
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My plotting progresses:
1) I'm not quite sure how to transition from Blackwall to Diamond Lake. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
2) The transition from Three Faces of Evil to The Champion's Belt seems easy enough. Place a clue in the Ebon Triad's lair that "Apostolic Scrolls" have been given to Louis Raknian, the director of Free City Arena. Go to Greyhawk, where Eligos or other research reveals the purpose of the Apostolic Scrolls. Cue "The Champion's Belt."
3) From The Champion's Belt to Spire of Long Shadows
During the climactic battle, the dragon Ilthane reveals herself and mentions the name of her patron—Dragotha. (Not quite sure how to arrange her entrance. Polymorphed/disguised dragons are a dime a dozen, but otherwise it's hard to get a dragon into a city.)Before the climax of the Champion’s Games, the PCs visited Eligos, and found that he has been murdered, his library destroyed. Clues suggested Eligos has ties with Tenser. Or maybe Celeste has left them a message. The ritual now thwarted (we hope!), they go to Tenser seeking council.
Hrm seems I wasn't fast enough with my last post. But here are some more thoughts:
1)Allustan could again fit here. He lives in Diamond Lake. The beginning of the adventure has him ask the party to check out the keep.
2) Sounds like a solid plan to me.
3) Its a dragon. Maybe its seeking some sort of prophecy, revenge, ect. Perhaps put something in an earlier adventure? Maybe they fight the dragon at the keep? Maybe the dragon is behind things at the keep? (Its been a while since I read blackwall keep)
Now your last bit concerns me. Is Eligos = Allustan? If thats so I guess you can't use much of what I'm saying...
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Ilthane doesn't have to be defeated when she appears at the games; you could introduce her as an antagonist by having her play a part in the plot and then have the showdown in Prince of Redhand (advance her to suit CR).
If you could figure out a way to merge TWC, TFoE and AGoW into one adventure, you'd be golden. If the Whispering Cairn didn't have the side trek and you bumped it up a notch, followed by a trek into Icosiel's tomb with the Ebon Triad in the underdark area, that might work. This could create an interesting 3 level dungeon, but you'll need to trim down the number of encounters and map areas you use.
TWC only really needs the false tomb, the true tomb and one of the lairs to be interesting. Icosiel's tomb could be left untouched, and the Ebon triad could have their dark cathedral (just the big room and the BBEGS + a bumped up Ebon Aspect?) at the bottom of the waterfall shaft. After that, you could progress normally through the AP.
Hope this helps...Enjoy!
1)Allustan could again fit here. He lives in Diamond Lake. The beginning of the adventure has him ask the party to check out the keep.
3) Its a dragon. Maybe its seeking some sort of prophecy, revenge, ect. Perhaps put something in an earlier adventure? Maybe they fight the dragon at the keep? Maybe the dragon is behind things at the keep? (Its been a while since I read blackwall keep)
Now your last bit concerns me. Is Eligos = Allustan? If thats so I guess you can't use much of what I'm saying...
Thanks for the ideas. Keep 'em coming!
Eligos is the name listed in the Overload for the sage in Greyhawk.
As for Allustan, I'm trying to demote him to a minor NPC. These characters rightly consider themselves minor heroes, and are not inclined to take direction from a village mage. (Tenser, though, would be antoher matter.) So I need to give them the clues they need, and let them choose their own path.
To get them to Blackwall Castle, I thought I'd start by having them come across a decimated hamlet. At first I wanted it to have fallen to Kyuss Spawn, and therefore it would be eerily free of any bodies. However, having the village fall to Lizard folk would allow the party to follow the lizardfolk to Blackwall Keep.
At Blackwall Keep, the party learns about the Kyuss Worms, and that a black dragon is helping spread them.
I like the idea of moving the encounter with Ilthane to somewhere other than Greyhawk. Anyone have any thoughts how to make the trail of Ilthane lead to Diamond Lake and the Ebon Triad?
If you could figure out a way to merge TWC, TFoE and AGoW into one adventure, you'd be golden. If the Whispering Cairn didn't have the side trek and you bumped it up a notch, followed by a trek into Icosiel's tomb with the Ebon Triad in the underdark area, that might work. This could create an interesting 3 level dungeon, but you'll need to trim down the number of encounters and map areas you use.
TWC only really needs the false tomb, the true tomb and one of the lairs to be interesting. Icosiel's tomb could be left untouched, and the Ebon triad could have their dark cathedral (just the big room and the BBEGS + a bumped up Ebon Aspect?) at the bottom of the waterfall shaft. After that, you could progress normally through the AP.
Hope this helps...Enjoy!
Yeah, making the Diamond Lake adventures work is the really hard part.
Getting back to first principles, what purpose does each of these adventures serve in the overall AOW?
The Whispering Cairn: It's a favorite of mine, but is any of it really needed for the AOW overall? I could simply lead the party to town, have them get interested in the red herring of the necromancer in the tower, and have them then uncover the Ebon Triad with his clues.
A Gathering of Winds: Apart from the Ilthane encounter, this doesn't seem to advance the plot much, or provide anything important. Am I missing something?
So it seems to really come down to Three Faces of Evil. I get that the Ebon Triad is up to no good, and is trying to help usher in the Age of Worms. Does anyone remember why exactly they're doing this in Diamond Lake?
(oops.)
A Gathering of Winds: Apart from the Ilthane encounter, this doesn't seem to advance the plot much, or provide anything important. Am I missing something?
The plot doesn't move much in AGoW; it is really a vehicle to put some really cool magic items in the hands of the PCs. If I were trying to slim down the adventures, I would end up merging Icosiol and Zosiel's tombs so that the PCs get all of the "stuff" from both of them. My PCs are really enjoying the items they gained.
Also, I had a great time with the Flycatcher encounters from AGoW. I played the spider with multiple personalities that always referred to his other names as if they were different "people". In a short time, my PCs had no idea if there was one spider or a dozen. Very memorable for all involved.
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Is there anything from your previous campaign that you can use to tie into the new AoW one? Recurring villians from over a decade ago can be fun and gives a nod to the PC's past exploits. It would be cool for your players to say "Ooooh! I remember that guy!"
As for story progression, why not do EaBK, CB then SoLS in that order? The whole "savage humanoids are starting problems" tack is a classic RPG story plot, introduces the spawn of Kyuss and provides a link to Loris Raknian (Shukak is an ex-gladiator) in CB. The Rod of 7 parts could be gleaned at the end of CB in the posession of the bad guys (maybe it's providing energy for part of the ritual).
Personally, I would highly recommend you skip all of Diamond Lake completely, and start off in the Free City, with The Hall of Harsh Reflections, and progress from there.
Why? HoHR is designed for 7th level, so it's a perfect fit. Your group has already been to the Free City, so you can re-visit the setting in a new way, players generally enjoy that. You don't have to come up with some reason to visit a dirty, tin-pot town, which at 7th level might seem like something that's beneath them (or they might decide to spend forever cleaning the whole place up, which could be fun, but distracting from the core AoW plot). I mean diamond Lake is cool, but by 7th level chances are the PC's have outgrown such a place (in my campaign, they have actually set up a mansion there, but they are hardly ever at home and very little play time occurs there, it's just where they intend to retire to once the adventuring is over - the Free City or some other home town can easily fulfil that need for your group, or even Alhaster).
This way, the modifications required should be minimal. You need a reason for Loris Raknain to want the PC's dead, but that should be easy for you to come up with based on their prior adventures. You need a reason to lead them to the Free City; again, should not be hard to manufacture (the reasons suggested in AoW are pretty weak anyway - if you're lucky, your game will be like mine and your PC's will want to return there by themselves without you even having to suggest it!) From there, you simply need the PC's to "take the bait" as far as the over-arching plot of preventing the Age of Worms goes - by the end of the Champions Games, they will have seen enough hidden evils to be motivated.
It's not until the Free City adventures that the PC's actually start to realise there is such a thing as the Age of Worms anyway, so by stripping the prior adventures, you really don't lose any critical plot (some cool adventures, yes, but these are designed for low level play, I wouldn't recommend putting higher level PCs though any of them as you'll have to bump the challenges up to levels that are hard to justify given the settings, and it's a lot of work for you).
The only big question is: do you want the PC's to ever go to Diamond Lake? I'd say no, not really necessary, you could easily have Illthane encountered anywhere in the wilderness and decide to attack the PC's. Alternatively, and probably better, you could come up with a hook that leads the PC's to investigate a Cairn in the wilderness, which just happens to be guarded by Illthane. Drop Allustan completely, he's not required. Eligos can lead the PC's to Tenser / Manzorian.
Is there anything from your previous campaign that you can use to tie into the new AoW one? Recurring villians from over a decade ago can be fun and gives a nod to the PC's past exploits. It would be cool for your players to say "Ooooh! I remember that guy!"
I'm looking to incorporate a few old characters in Greyhawk. An old PC will serve well in the role of the sage in Greyhawk. They also have some familiarity with the Green Dragon Inn and its manager - who shares a bond with them as he is a veteran of the battle at Emridy Meadows against the TOEE.
As for old villains - they've killed all the great ones I can remember, and in the TOEE they adopted a salt-the-earth policy, incinerating the bodies to prevent resurrection. I do have a power-for-power's-sake former PC in mind as a surprise villain, though. (Good thing they don't hang around Paizo.com, huh?)
Personally, I would highly recommend you skip all of Diamond Lake completely, and start off in the Free City, with The Hall of Harsh Reflections, and progress from there.
D'oh! I just lost a long response/further thoughts regarding this. (Must not compose in the "Reply" window. Must not compose in the "Reply" window. Must not...) I'll have to try again later.
Personally, I would highly recommend you skip all of Diamond Lake completely, and start off in the Free City, with The Hall of Harsh Reflections, and progress from there.
Agreed; Blackwall Keep is fun, but is sort of a misfit in terms of the rest of the AP, and TFoE is really only fun if you're into interminable dungeon crawls.
For more ideas, you might check out the various posted logs about TPKs in this AP. My group was wiped out in Spire, for example, with only one character escaping by means of plane shift; his eventual return to the Free City with his tale of woe was the starting point for the next party.
Seeing how you've played through al ot of adventures already and have only advanced to level 7, you should prepare yourself for fast leveling. My players and I still find the fast paced leveling strange (what, we level up again? It's only been four sessions.).
Seeing how you've played through al ot of adventures already and have only advanced to level 7, you should prepare yourself for fast leveling. My players and I still find the fast paced leveling strange (what, we level up again? It's only been four sessions.).
Or, "why are we levelling up every few hours?" in some cases!
Seeing how you've played through al ot of adventures already and have only advanced to level 7, you should prepare yourself for fast leveling. My players and I still find the fast paced leveling strange (what, we level up again? It's only been four sessions.).
I hate fast leveling. I played a lot of 3e and a bit of 3.5e before starting residency 3 years ago, and it drove me crazy that characters never have a chance to figure out how to effectively use one set of abilities and spells before moving on to the next set. It makes for sloppy play, and rushed/implausible character development. My preference for 3e is generally to cut the rate of advancement in half.
But for AOW, I'm willing to go with standard 3e character advancement. These characters have payed their dues, and their personalities, backgrounds, and relationships are solid. I think they're ready to drink from the firehose for a few months. Plus, the latter half of AOW really rocks, and I don't want to mess with it much.
I figure this will be our one 3.5e campaign, and then it'll be on to 4e. In 4e, it sounds like Wizards'll spread out the power advancement over 30 levels instead of 20, so maybe the genre-changing abilities (fly, teleport, speak with dead, commune and the like) will appear a little more gradually. We'll see.
Hey everyone, thanks for the suggestions and advice! Now to rebuild that lost post...
Personally, I would highly recommend you skip all of Diamond Lake completely, and start off in the Free City, with The Hall of Harsh Reflections, and progress from there.
Short version:
I can see why Diamond Lake is worth skipping in this case.I'd like to start with Blackwall Keep because it establishes some key elements of the overall AOW plot: Kyuss Worms are being spread, and powerful interests, including a black dragon, are spreading them.
I'm avoiding HOHR because intrigue, double crosses, doppelgangers, and crime bosses are just not my players' cup of tea. We've tried that, and it wasn't pretty. Or fun. Plus, it doesn't advance the AOW plot.
The question is, what to do in between EaBK and TCB?
An outline could go like this:
7th-8th: Encounter at Blackwall Keep
9th-10th: ?????
11th-12th: The Champion's Belt
13th+: Spire of Long Shadows, etc., as written
For that 9th-10th adventure, the following things would seem important:
1) The backstory of the sorcerer who became a Kyuss Spawn 2 years ago could be used to lead the adventurers to this adventure.
2) Ilthane could be incorporated. She has to appear somewhere, after all, and could be a great recurring villain.
3) Ilthane needs more lackeys/co-conspirators working on bringing about the Age of Worms. The Ebon Triad might work for this.
4) The party needs to learn that the head of the Arena has the Apocalypse Scrolls (or whatever they are called).
I have a couple thoughts:
1) This adventure could take place in Greyhawk, or in the hills or swamps.
2) The more I can incorporate things from TWC, TFoE, AGoW, or even HoHR rather than creating them from whole cloth, the better.
Hmmm. Back to plotting.
No, back to work. You must work. You like work. No more plotting now.
Note that making Blackwall Keep a challenge for 7th level PC's is probably going to be hard - it's been said my many that, as written, a lot of parties have found it easy going when at 5th level. So even if you add 2 levels to most or all of the lizardfolk etc, expect your PC's to find it pretty easy. Not that this is a bad thing, they should be able to flex their power against such "standard" opponents (once they hit the cults of Kyuss, such luxuries will be gone!)
For 9th level, I'd offer the following suggestions:
1) The Styes (EL 9, Dungeon 121) - never run it, but you could run it without much in the way of modifications, and tie it into the AoW plot easily enough, just make the Styes part of the Free City on the river. There's plenty of old posts here about such an endeavour (search the archives).
2) Caverns of the Ooze Lord (EL 8, Dungeon 132) - again, never run it, but did have it up my sleeve for a side-trek one day, thinking the cult of Jubilex could be worked in or replaced with a Kyuss type cult. I'm sure you could plant Illthane in this somewhere, and beef it up for level 9 PC's.
3) And Madness Follows (EL 9, Dungeon 134) - I ran this one myself between Harsh Reflections and Champion's Belt, and loved it. There's no tie-in to the cult of Kyuss / Ebon Triad, but you could manufacture such a thing. It features Call of Cthulhu -style madness, a good change of pace. Won't give you more than a single level-up though.
4) Istivin: City of Shadows Trilogy (Dungeon 117-119) - I used this as a side-quest to find out about Bucknard and find his missing diary etc, rather than have Tenser and it over. You'd need to de-power it a little, but you could for example swap out the Blue Dragon there for Illthane, and work on the plot tie-ins to explicitly link in Kyuss (or just keep it a pure side-trek). It's long, but not overly so, and we liked it especially as it tied in to the old Against the Giants campaign I ran years ago.
After this, if she hasn't featured yet, I'd say run Illthane at the PC's in some way that makes sense for you, say she tracks them down en route to Tenser (Manzorian) looking to avenge their work to date against the Ebon Triad (e.g. in the Champion's Games).
Keep in mind, though, that the PC's will now be missing a piece of the Rod of Seven Parts as well as some other cool magic items stashed in the cairn that Illthane was guarding. In particular, my group has found the Ring of the Wind Dukes to be a very useful item (helps the fighter move about the battlefield etc), as well as the sword that lets you fly when drawn (again, for the movement options). If you can contrive for Tenser to still gift the PC's an item worth up to 40K each, that's not so bad, but from the Spire things get pretty hard, so don't be afraid of running them at it a level ahead (14th).
Note that making Blackwall Keep a challenge for 7th level PC's is probably going to be hard - it's been said my many that, as written, a lot of parties have found it easy going when at 5th level. So even if you add 2 levels to most or all of the lizardfolk etc, expect your PC's to find it pretty easy. Not that this is a bad thing, they should be able to flex their power against such "standard" opponents (once they hit the cults of Kyuss, such luxuries will be gone!)
I was thinking this should be a fairly easy "teaser" adventure. It would allow them to try out the 3e rules in the kiddie pool. It would also give them a chance to say goodbye to their killing-lots-of-humanoid-minions days, and move into playing against more big-league baddies.
Which would also suggest that the next adventure should be a cool and different challenge. Maybe a mind flayer after all, or maybe...
For 9th level, I'd offer the following suggestions:
1) The Styes (EL 9, Dungeon 121)
2) Caverns of the Ooze Lord (EL 8, Dungeon 132)
3) And Madness Follows (EL 9, Dungeon 134)
4) Istivin: City of Shadows Trilogy (Dungeon 117-119)
... I have some reading to do. Thanks!
4) Istivin: City of Shadows Trilogy (Dungeon 117-119) - I used this as a side-quest to find out about Bucknard and find his missing diary etc, rather than have Tenser and it over. You'd need to de-power it a little, but you could for example swap out the Blue Dragon there for Illthane, and work on the plot tie-ins to explicitly link in Kyuss (or just keep it a pure side-trek). It's long, but not overly so, and we liked it especially as it tied in to the old Against the Giants campaign I ran years ago.
Did Bucknard figure in this? I only skimmed it, but I missed that.
Hmmm. If that worked as a chase-Bucknard-and-his-notes adventure, it could be run after Champion's Belt. Then we could run Blackwall Keep (7-8) -> Champion's Belt (8-9-10ish)-> Istivin (11-12-13ish?)-> Spire of Long Shadows (13/14+). That could be good.
Thanks again!
As written, Bucknard does not figure in the Istivin series, that was my addition, the "hook" if you will...
The way I did things was to make it that Tenser sent the PC's to Istivin, to consult Algorthas, the "greatest sage in the Flanaess". You see, I didn't like the fact that Tenser and Bucknard were so "buddy buddy" in the Age of Worms, that's not really Greyhawk Cannon as I understand it, more a convenient way to expedite the plot (i.e. as written, Tenser conveniently knows almost everything about Bucknard, has a painting of the Spire, and so on). So I changed it, and had Tenser know very little about Bucknard, merely that he was interested in the Ebon Triad and Kyuss, and in the Circle of Eight before Tenser joined (effectively, Tenser was his "replacement", so they never really met, Tenser only knows what others like Mordenkainen might have mentioned about Bucknard - that's much more like GH Cannon). The PC's, and Tenser's "henchman" Cymria, did some research in the library that Agath looks after, and found out that Bucknard often visited Algorthas to do research, and that a lot of his old diaries and other notes were actually deposited there for safe keeping. It may well have been one of the last known places he was seen before he disappeared.
Now, Algorthas does indeed live just outside of Istivin, and is indeed the greatest sage in the (known) lands - that's all as per the Istivin adventures. I just gave the PC's a need to go there, i.e. to get the info that, in the plot as written, Tenser gives the PC's. Once the group gets to Istivin, it's easy enough to have them take some time in the city itself looking for Algorthas and actually getting an audience with him. For example, Tenser had never met Algorthas personally, but had been to the city once, so he used Teleport Circle to get them to just outside the main gates, a place he remembers well enough (it's pretty distinctive!) While the PC's were gone, Tenser spent some time finding and customising the PC's new 40,000 gp toys (they traded the Rod fragment). After a couple of days in Istivin, the PC's were getting pretty motivated to pick up on the various hints that things were not right in the place, and once they got started it all fell into place quite easily. Algorthas took a week or two to collect all of Bucknard's materials, and do some other research for the PC's, so they didn't get all that info about Bucknard until after they had finished and defeated the Malgoth. By the time they had finished, they actually had all the info they needed to have a choice between going to the Spire, or going to Alhaster first (I didn't drip-feed the info about Alhaster like it is written in Age of Worms - I like to give the players some choice here and there, or at least the illusion of choices as much as possible).
Keep in mind this is a reasonably long side-trek with no real relation to the Age of Worms - probably not a biggie though, as for example the whole Hall of Harsh Reflections adventure doesn't have any Age of Worms plot either, it's simply a way of moving the PC's on to the next adventure (Champion's Games), which does have Age of Worms plot.
In my game, the main reason I used it (Istivin) was because we had a couple of months where one player was going to be away most of the time, so we actually split the party and did this side-trek with the main PC's (less that player). When that player was around, we actually did the other half of the split, which was actually an initial delve into the jungles to find out where the Spire was - the group consisted of that player's PC, an old PC of another player, and one player actually ran Celeste (under the cover of being a Fighter/Bard). It worked out really well, because the group discovered the Spire's location, sent in guns a blazing, and were promptly smoked by the twin sword archons (specifically, Celeste was killed by two full-round attacks). So the others used word of recall to get out, and joined the others for a second, full-party assault on the Spire, which they cleaned out surprisingly easily (to them and me). Celeste was then the fallen eladrin (one of those moments when the DM's dreams come true, with no fudging or other heavy-handedness required).
Anyway, for your game, I'm not sure how you could put Istivin between Blackwall Keep and the Champions Games - no doubt Eligos could be your link to visiting Algorthas, but exactly why the players might go so far so early escapes me. What I've found in the past, is that players easily forget why they are doing what they are doing unless the motivation is very clear - if you've used a tenuous hook to get them on the next adventure, they often get half way through and say, "so, like, why are we here again?" So if you do want to send them off to Istivin for some adventures, then lead them back to GH City once they are done, have a think about how you can set this up at the end of Blackwall Keep, and how the end of Istivin can lead them back to entering the Free City's games (they will be missing the extended assassination attempts sponsored by Raknian, which I found to be a good motivator). Maybe Eligos knows of Bucknard and his efforts into researching the same kinds of things the PC's uncovered in the marshes south of Blackwall Keep? He could lead them to Istivin, then they go back to the Free City to share this with Eligos, and somehow enter the Games. After the Champions Games are done, the PC's find the dead Eligos and his notes to his old mentor, Tenser, so then have a link to go visit Magepoint...
If you want to slow down advancement by cutting XP and wealth by half, you will have to add extra adventures in between each installment of the AoWAP. My suggestion would be:
7th-8th: EaBK (increase CRs by 2)
8th-9th: TFoH (increase CRs by 5 and move underneath the Free City)
9th-10th: CB (do not kill Eligos at the end)
10th-11th: And Madness Follows (relatively easy to increase CRs by 1)
11th-12th: AGoW (replace Allustan with Eligos)
After A Gathering of Winds, you could run side-treks to gather the rest of the Rod of Seven Parts fragments in between each of the AP installments.