My problems with 4e


4th Edition

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Initially I had planned on picking up the 4th Edition core books as they came out. As time goes on....eh, I can't say I'm still feeling like picking up the books.

It just seems....to not D&Dish for me.

Anyone else read the part where they talk about the cleric landing a critical hit in melee on an opponent and it heals her wizard companion?

Thats a huge wtf!?!?

Seemed overly video game like to me.


psyrus wrote:
I don't buy the old excuses. spellcasting should have a price tag attached. if you have to spend time mastering it, then a non magoical character should have more skills for the real world...

Ever hear of 'point buy' system? (evil grin)

Liberty's Edge

Not to be the person to drag everyone back to the topic, but if you reread the original post, this thread isn't about this possibly bad mechanic or that lost investment.

I really wanted to bring up issues with confidence in WotC as a publisher, especially as a software publisher. The ripple effect this announcement has on the industry. And other consumer level concerns.

The Lizards of the Coast have 6 months or so until they have to submit the core books for printing, arguing mechanics issues with what they have shown us in their magic lantern show is pretty silly.

Do try and keep to the level of WotC has done X badly in the past, what confidence do we have that they can do X correctly now, and find somewhere else to bicker of the number of skill points per level or the anime feel.


Very well.

I suggest that WotC are very good at transforming paper into gold. How else do you explain the cost of Magic cards? What does this mean for 4e? WotC will find every increasingly clever ways of lifting your hard earned coin from your purse.

Oh, and personally, I think they produce a substandard role playing game.

Liberty's Edge

CourtFool wrote:

Very well.

I suggest that WotC are very good at transforming paper into gold. How else do you explain the cost of Magic cards?

Guys like my cousin. (obsessive collectors)

CourtFool wrote:
What does this mean for 4e?

More minis, shorter and simpler books, myriad D&D-related products (like in the 80s, except cheesier and more exploitative of the fanbase).

CourtFool wrote:

WotC will find every increasingly clever ways of lifting your hard earned coin from your purse.

Oh, and personally, I think they produce a substandard role playing game.

Hell yes.


The Eldritch Mr. Shiny wrote:
... shorter and simpler books, ...

I'm not convinced of this.

I think the books will be just as long, both to continue that false since of quality and to continue to justify the cost, but filled with less truly useful information - and more "bloat." (To use a software term.)

Liberty's Edge

Disenchanter wrote:
The Eldritch Mr. Shiny wrote:
... shorter and simpler books, ...

I'm not convinced of this.

I think the books will be just as long, both to continue that false since of quality and to continue to justify the cost, but filled with less truly useful information - and more "bloat." (To use a software term.)

Sort of like The Complete Mage, Races of the Dragon, The Magic Item Compendium, et. al?


Disenchanter wrote:
I think the books will be just as long, both to continue that false since of quality and to continue to justify the cost, but filled with less truly useful information...

That begs the question, "What is useful information?"

For me, I do not use the system, so I am really only interested in 'fluff'; which, coincidentally is immune to becoming obsolete.

As I have said before, now is all you disgruntled gamers' chance to find a better system. Keep what you have, convert the fluff and game on.

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