Sasserine Justice (spoilers)


Savage Tide Adventure Path


In the Sea Wyvern's Wake, when the expedition visits Renkrue, the NPC notes mention Avner causing trouble by attempting to buy an Olman girl. Slavery tends to set my group off, so I'm planning to play this scene up.

Since the Sea Wyvern flies the flag of Sasserine, I assume that her passengers would be subject to Sasserine law. I also assume that, since Sasserine is a NG city, that slavery is illegal. What is an appropriate penalty? What about for "attempted" slavery?

I'm playing Lavinia about as lawful as they come, so it'll be her sense of justice vs. the players' desire to hang Avner from the yardarm.


Although "slavery" is never specifically mentioned, it would make for a unique spin on the event. It seems more likely that it is an effort on the part of Avner to collect his favorite kind of "souvenirs", namely women. Not that this is much better, of course, but it seems somehow lest maligned.

In my own campaign, Avner hasn't even walked through the official front door (This Is An Outrage! event), and he's already one of the most vilified figures in the game! (He has that kind of charm, I guess.) Surely, if given free reign, my players' PCs would never have him along on the trip.

However, one element I did play up to keep his presence a necessary evil was that Lavinia is broke, needs to pursue her departed parents last legacy (Farshore), and Zebula Meravanchi (Avner's daddy) is the only one who will finance it...provided they "take Avner off his hands." His is family, however, and is really trading him to his other relatives in Farshore; he certainly doesn't want Avner dead, or even harmed. This has been represented, in my own game, by Lavinia's prudence in discouraging our PCs from taking direct action against the spoiled noble.

However, one PC made it a point to spend lots of extra gold around Sasserine, drinking and whoring all night, spreading terrible rumors about the man, ruining any potential reputation he might have had, save for a bad one. Smote by slander, and it wasn't even a class feature for the guy!


Yeah, I agree that that is Aver's motivation, and that's certainly the spin he'll put on it. But I know these players. "And the bandits sold the villagers into slavery," is the hook they always bite, no matter how cynical and self-motivated their characters are. They are going to be revolted. Not to mention the reaction of the snoring chief (He Who Sleeps With Sound).

Plus they really want to get rid of Avner. They've tried to get him on the Blue Nixie several times. Lavinia just keeps saying, "That's what I pay YOU for."


I tried to play up Avner buying the woman not like a slave, but well... let's say he was only planning to rent her for some time. I've tried to make Avner as detestable as possible and really highlight his cowardice in the face of any significant threat. Try to make it seem to your players like Avner is treating her like a mail order bride or a prostitute instead of out and out slavery.

Our Whisper Gnome had spent the entire time during Sea Wyvern's Wake taunting Avner while his human friend spent a lot of time in the hold teaching Avner's horse tricks and to obey him using Handle Animal. At Journey's End the Whisper Gnome bit the dust and Avner taunted the party about it. The human Warblade snapped and threw Avner to the ground and informed him "The only thing keeping you alive is dead or gone, so shut your mouth." It was a really intense bit of role-playing from a normally very quiet and reserved player so I like to think Avner has been quite successful in our sessions.

~ Bryon ~


I will say that Avner represents a unique kind of NPC. He's deplorable, and no physical threat. His stake in the voyage is pretty flimsy, and he has nothing to offer. He's offensive, and quick to get the whole expedition into hot water, just for the sake of his whims.

What's really unique is that even though the adventure path suggests that an effort be made to keep him alive throughout, truth is I don't see how his "retirement" from the expedition would--effectively--have a detrimental effect. Sure, he's lots of fun, because he's such a cad, but if the PCs cry for justice, go for it!

I say he's unique, because there will be times when the PCs won't have the opportunity to do this with every NPC who doesn't mesh with their ethos, but here, they get that opportunity. So, string'em up from the yardarm, and tickle his toes before he goes limp!


I was thinking about that. From the description in Crimson Tide, I don't think his uncle would shed too many tears if Avner didn't make it, but I'd like to keep him around. My group doesn't do a whole lot of heavy role-play, but Avner's behavior is starting to shake it loose. Here's my scenario:

1. The Olman think he is trying to "buy" the girl. They want him turned over to the tribe for execution and subsequent reanimation "to serve the tribe forever." Sort of a hard-ball poetic justice thing.

2. Avner insists that he only wanted to "rent" her. Really only a difference of duration if you think about it.

3. Lavinia insists that he be judged according to the laws of Sasserine.

The players will want Avner's head, but I doubt they'll go for allowing him to be turned into undead. The diplomacy check will be to convince the chief that Avner will receive appropriate justice at the hands of the party. Then they'll have to decide if they want to cross their employer or not. The best solution for me would be to have him locked away for the rest of the voyage. That way, when the ship sinks, they'll have to decide if they'll risk their lives to save his butt, or if they'll let him go down with the ship. At lest one character is LG, so it'll be a tough call.

Anyway, does anyone know where I can find a quick and dirty reference for typical DnD law?


Well, you could look at medevial law and see what kind of ideas that gives you. But I would also factor in the alignment of the city and Avner's place in it. Since Sasserine is NG, I'm thinking the worst thing he could get for this particular crime (kidnapping? coersion? prostitution?) would be some hardcore community service, fines, and the like. This isn't a really viable option at sea and definently won't make the Olmans feel better about the situation. I seriously doubt Lavinia would order him to be lashed or anything but maybe with some really good diplomacy checks and some reparations from the Sea Wyvern, the Olmans would be happy to let him go.

Oh! Maybe Lavinia says that he needs to help the crew for the rest of the voyage, a kind of community service and a way to humble him. I'm not really sure though...


just my opinion...

While outright slavery would be illegal in Sasserine, I figured that there would be "virtual" slavery in two forms: indentured servitude (like in colonial America), and predatory employment (1880-1920 industrial America).

Sasserine seems to be an "anything goes as long as it makes a profit" city, that clamps down just enough to avoid being evil. Not that they think evil is wrong, but there is no long-term profit in it.

Scarab Sages

Ben Brenneman 22 wrote:


Anyway, does anyone know where I can find a quick and dirty reference for typical DnD law?

Old AD&D "fluff" products had some products that were pretty cool. For instance THIS page has a product, "City of Raven's Bluff" which IIRC has some notes on Law and Order. Another product, the cardboard cut-out city mock-up thingy did as well as the Greyhawk City Boxed set, both had some "guidelines".

Basically in a medieval setting there are two sets of laws: High Justice and Low Justice. High Justice applies to Nobles from their superior (the king) and low justice applies to commoners from their superiors (the nobles). Essentially a double-standard. I try not to make it complicated, but "nobility" can pretty much do what they want to the commoners. There are consequences to be sure. A noble that harms a commoner that is under the protection of another noble faces the wrath of that noble. They either duke it out or appeal to a higher power (a king), but usually its noble-noble fighting.

If the PCs intervene, they, being commoners, would be outside their rights to attack or harm Avner, and could "legally" be punished by Avner. But the reality is that Avner has no "forces" to impose punishment on the PCs. The PCs have ABSOLUTELY no rights to punish Avner for slavery, however immoral. Lavinia, as a Noble, has no restriction. Without a superior (a king, ruling council, etc) to appeal to, Nobles usually Settle disputes either by diplomacy or by a contest of Arms. Avner knows he is outgunned by Lavinia's "forces" (ie the PCs), so he would likely use Diplomacy to sway Lavinia to stay out of his business. She needs the Merivanchi(sp?) support for the "Farshore Project" and Avner knows this as well. I wouldn't be suprised if Avner were to somehow bribe villagers to "steal" trade goods from the Blue Nixie and/or the Sea Wyvern prior to his actually taking the Olman girl. Then he can justify the taking of a Hostage as a bargaining chip until the Olmans give up the goods, especially if the goods stolen were largely Merivanchi goods...of course Avner expects the goods to be destroyed by his accomplices and as such will hanfg on to the girl indefinately.

So I wouldn't allow a simple "String-him up" mentality. I like for Nobility to have meaning greater than character levels. You can even have the various NPCs, sailors, etc pretty much "go along with" this worldview to give the players the hint that hanging Avner would be bad. The "sailors", for eample, are very much aware that their food, their pay, their very lives are at the mercy of the nobility. They might gently admonish the PCs for "...riling up his lordship. Pelor knows what a terror he is without you folk goading him" and that sort of thing.

Lavinia wouldn't go for killing Avner in my mind either. She may agree to putting him under arrest and locking him in his cabin for the remainder of the voyage and then sent back to Sasserine for justice.

I would play up the "hostage" angle for a real (but contrived by Avner) Olman transgression as his justification, but the PCs being firmly aware of his immoral abuse of power. A Diplomacy rolling, evidence gathering, crime solving kinda of plot.


Bryon_Kershaw wrote:

I tried to play up Avner buying the woman not like a slave, but well... let's say he was only planning to rent her for some time. I've tried to make Avner as detestable as possible and really highlight his cowardice in the face of any significant threat. Try to make it seem to your players like Avner is treating her like a mail order bride or a prostitute instead of out and out slavery.

I assumed something similar. I played it as him trying to buy a wife, which in a tribe culture isn't a bad thing. But in Avner's case his poor tact and the fact that he is an outsider is what made it a problem for the Olmans. My groups minotuar put him in his place on this one.

Scarab Sages

Funny thing is I expect my players to want "wives" of their own...they are a sordid lot.


Avner was provoked into a duel hereabouts, challenging the group's warblade who made some choice remarks about his honour, manhood and uprightness when he went after the group's female cohorts.

he struck the warblade (incidentally the ship's captain ), who asked him out for "grass before breakfast"

Avner declined to back-down, or to take the option of bening dropped off in the dinghi for mutiny and "disrespectful conduct".

The duel ensued, and Avner (prompted by the nefarious - female - beguiler's suggestion "Just tell him what a pxxxy he is and that you are not afraid of him" ) called out to hit him "as hard as he could".... Unfortunately that was far harder than Avner's low 11 HP could sustain...

Resolved the "Avner-question" - with Lavinia being miffed, but since she is rather adamant on honourable behaviour.....


Thank's for the input. We're playing tomorrow, so I'll let y'all know how it goes.

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