RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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In my weekly Forgotten Realms game last night, our party came across a substantial cache of enchanted goods. When I say 'substantial' however, I want to make the degree of substantiality abundantly clear. The highest level member of our party is level 6. SIX. S-I-X. Okay? Here's what we found (and, mind you, our DM let us get away scot-free with):
- Gem of True Seeing
- +2 wild leather armor
- +2 light fortification full plate armor
- +1 spined shield
- Robe of Eyes
- Robes of the Evil Archmagi
- Staff of Transmutation
- Staff of Earth
- Wands of dimension door, comprehend languages, shield, mage armor, magic missile, & detect magic
- +1 longsword
- +1 throwing axe
- Staff of Evocation
There are 5 party members. Level 6 Wizard, Level 6 Druid, Level 5 Bard, Level 3 Fighter, and Level 3 Rogue.
This. Is. Insane. Our party is entirely good-aligned, but the DM is going to let my wizard redeem the robes of the evil archmagi per the guidelines in the Book of Exalted Deeds.
Notably, this is the same DM who I complained about several weeks ago because he was putting us up against encounters with ELs 5-7 levels above us with below average gear at our disposal. Now he seems to have made up for it.... with devastating overkill. I can't win.
I know what this means, too. Now, since we're armed with hideously powerful equipment, he's going to start ramping up the encounters again. It's a miracle no one has died yet, but we're all very shrewd and tactical players (and the druid and I coordinate our efforts to maximize DM frustration).
I know what you mean.
A few months ago, we had a DM who constantly threw high level wizards at us. That was it. Just wizards. I guess he thought that he was balanced in that he kept boosting our levels by 5 at the end of each game and making up insane weapons and armor for the party, even going as far as a Great Wurm Gold Dragon summon several times per day.
Then he was pissy that we tore apart everything he tried. Finally, when we reached his BBEG, a lv 150 wizard (don't ask me, I have no idea), the casters in our party pelted him with greater dispells, M's disjunction, and silence. Once all of his pycho-buffs and enchantments were gone, he was too physically (sp?) weak to wear/carry his own armor/gear, and thus, sat there helpless for a cou de'gra (sp?).
So yeah... I've seen bad DMs before... I'd confront him about it Fatespinner. Seriously, we let said crappy DM run rampant and it spoiled several would/should-have-been good gaming nights go down the drain.
-Kurocyn
If I had gotten all that at 6th level I would be assuming that something or someone was coming for me. You have items well above your power level and more powerfu people will want them and take them. I would assume certain doom is on the horizon. But hey that's just me ;)
Wow. We used to do that in our group when we just learned to play and din't wuite grasp the Wealth by level tables. I was the most reasonable, only giving out Staffs of Fire to 1st level players. One of the other people in the group gave my 1st level Soulkinfe a Ring of Three Wishes. It only stopped when I sat down and had a talk with the other DMs. Still, occasionally one of my players will bring out an old character to play when we start anew campaign and they'll try to keep the overpowered stuff. Which doesn't happen.
If this person is reasonable you should take some time and have a discussion with him, explaining the WbL tables and the ECL system.
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Wow. It's definitely a delicate dance to hit the party with balanced enemies that are challenging but not too hard, and to reward them with enough treasure to make their tribulations worthwhile, without overpowering them.
But .... yeah.....this is really going too far. Is the DM new? Maybe someone needs to show him tee ropes for a bit before he takes the helm. He can act as a player for a while (in a balanced game), then as a Co-DM until he gets his feet firmly beneath him.
But, someone needs to do something and fast - unless you like uber munchkin gaming.
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... Barring that... um... er...
Use that loot to hire some protection.
All together, the staffs, robes and Gem of Seeing are worth about 480,000 gp. According to the Arms and Equipment Guide, a heavily armored, mounted Warrior 12 costs 24 sp/day. That much scratch will hire 200 of them for the next 1,000 days. Or hire some Ogre Mage's, at 16 gp/day.Or, buy four shield guardians (120,000 each).
Or sell the lot, each of you buy a mansion (100,000 gp) and retire.
You might need to gently break it to your DM that just because he's given you some really great gear it doesn't necessarily follow that you'll be able to handle those ELs that are 5-7 above you indefinitely. After all, none of that stuff will increase HP all that much.
In the meantime, go cultivate some friends. Keep a little of that mound and then sell off or give away to friendly powerful NPCs the rest. You know, people who can handle having gems of true seeing and such.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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But .... yeah.....this is really going too far. Is the DM new? Maybe someone needs to show him tee ropes for a bit before he takes the helm. He can act as a player for a while (in a balanced game), then as a Co-DM until he gets his feet firmly beneath him.
No, he's not new at all. That's what makes this so bad. He's been playing D&D for about 10 years and has been DMing for about 6 of those years. I've been in several of his games before and never has there been such a grievous disregard for anything resembling game balance like this before. Occassionally we'll get our hands on one minor artifact around level 8 or 9, but it's usually something vital to the plot and something that needs to be given to some powerful ally in order to prevent Unspeakable Death(tm). This is just ancient Netherese swag. We found an old tomb, used a scroll of teleport to bypass the cave-in that had sealed it off, and used the Staff of Earth to tunnel our way back out. There wasn't even a fight. We managed to avoid what few items in there that happened to be trapped (the rogue was able to spot the traps) and made off with everything else.
I get the sinking feeling that the DM is going to realize his mistake all too soon and come after us with CR 20 dragons or something.
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Ok....well, in that case - give him 2 more sessions. He just may (*may*)be working on some plot whereby the Netherese come to reclaim their stuff. I don't know.
He's given out artifacts before that were plot devices.
He very well may throw you guys against very hard opponents to make up for the swag. Just wait and see what happens.
If a TPK occurs, use that as the time to have a sit down discussion with him about what was going on.
But, give him some time before you voice your concerns. This isn't the way I'd run a game, but hey - maybe he's working on something here. It does seem odd though.
Uhh...if I were a player, I would be expecting the proverbial excrement to be hitting the oscillating machine at some point. Soon-like.
As a DM/GM...what in Graz'zt's pleasure palace is going on here? I know it's FR and all that, but sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...sh. Monty Haul would be going "Uh, dude, seriously...chill with the loot, m'kay?"
Just to play devil's advocate...
I know a guy who hates the idea of Walmart magic items. He says a magic item should be special and doesn't want the players constantly trading in items. His solution was to give the characters a pile of gear which, for their level, was way over the top, but in so doing he wouldn't have to worry about giving them treasure for a very long time.
Is there a chance that your DM is doing this? You said you complained about the lack of treasure before, and this may well be his solution. Now he doesn't have to listen to any more complaints and he doesn't have to balance out treasure and encounters for a while.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Is there a chance that your DM is doing this? You said you complained about the lack of treasure before, and this may well be his solution. Now he doesn't have to listen to any more complaints and he doesn't have to balance out treasure and encounters for a while.
While this is a possibility, the amount of wealth he bestowed upon us is outlandish, even if that is his intent. We have wealth levels easily 10 levels higher than we are currently and, if he doesn't intend to give us any more treasure for 10 levels, then he's doing something even worse: railroading the gear. Staves and wands are limited use items. There were no rings, no amulets, and only a few minor weapons. There wasn't even magical ammunition and no potions or scrolls to speak of. Sure our gear is insanely expensive but, is it balanced? Not really. The druid can use one of the staves, the wizard can use the other ones, and the bard and wizard can share the wands. The rogue got one sword. The fighter got the plate mail and shield. The wizard got the robes. The druid got the leather armor. The gem of seeing can be used by anyone. If this is all the gear we're getting for the next 10 levels, we're screwed.
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"After laughter comes tears," something my German great grandmother would say when the children were laughing at the dinner table.
Yeah, the old germans are a happy bunch, you can tell by their childrens fables. Usually a kid got ate up, lost, beaten, etc....
After laughter comes tears indeed!Just joking, btw, I have nothing against old wienersnitzels.
FH
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Is there a chance that your DM is doing this? You said you complained about the lack of treasure before, and this may well be his solution. Now he doesn't have to listen to any more complaints and he doesn't have to balance out treasure and encounters for a while.While this is a possibility, the amount of wealth he bestowed upon us is outlandish, even if that is his intent. We have wealth levels easily 10 levels higher than we are currently and, if he doesn't intend to give us any more treasure for 10 levels, then he's doing something even worse: railroading the gear. Staves and wands are limited use items. There were no rings, no amulets, and only a few minor weapons. There wasn't even magical ammunition and no potions or scrolls to speak of. Sure our gear is insanely expensive but, is it balanced? Not really. The druid can use one of the staves, the wizard can use the other ones, and the bard and wizard can share the wands. The rogue got one sword. The fighter got the plate mail and shield. The wizard got the robes. The druid got the leather armor. The gem of seeing can be used by anyone. If this is all the gear we're getting for the next 10 levels, we're screwed.
Just as a precaution you should have an Adventure prepared that you can run at any time. I have a feeling this is gonna blow up and it is best to scrap together the survivors and start a whole new game without a break or you may lose players to other games, discontent or whatever.
Be ready, young Jedi, for I sense a disturbance in the force.FH
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Just as a precaution you should have an Adventure prepared that you can run at any time. I have a feeling this is gonna blow up and it is best to scrap together the survivors and start a whole new game without a break or you may lose players to other games, discontent or whatever.
Be ready, young Jedi, for I sense a disturbance in the force.
Heh. Normally, I would agree with you but this is a group of my personal friends (not random folks we picked up) and we've had much, much worse games than this in the past. The storyline for this game isn't so bad, it's just the wealth tables and the somewhat hackneyed alliances (entire village of orcs helping elves fight off the Red Wizards of Thay?) that makes me twitch. I have faith that, even if this game ends up screaming into the Abyss, we'll find something else and move on as if nothing had happened.
While this is a possibility, the amount of wealth he bestowed upon us is outlandish, even if that is his intent. We have wealth levels easily 10 levels higher than we are currently and, if he doesn't intend to give us any more treasure for 10 levels, then he's doing something even worse: railroading the gear. Staves and wands are limited use items. There were no rings, no amulets, and only a few minor weapons. There wasn't even magical ammunition and no potions or scrolls to speak of. Sure our gear is insanely expensive but, is it balanced? Not really. The druid can use one of the staves, the wizard can use the other ones, and the bard and wizard can share the wands. The rogue got one sword. The fighter got the plate mail and shield. The wizard got the robes. The druid got the leather armor. The gem of seeing can be used by anyone. If this is all the gear we're getting for the next 10 levels, we're screwed.
Was this planned? I mean, did your DM have some notes jotted down listing this haul or did he just give it out at random?
If it was planned, expect too be screwed. If not, I can't come up with any in game reasons for his actions. You may want to talk to him in an entirely nonconfrontational manner, just to make sure his alright and see what he's thinking. Maybe it would be better if you sat behind the screen for a while.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Was this planned? I mean, did your DM have some notes jotted down listing this haul or did he just give it out at random?
It wasn't planned in the slightest. When we got into the chamber and started running detect magic, he opened up the DMG and browsed it for a little while before announcing what we had found. It took him about 20 minutes to determine all the crap that was in there. He even told me after the game "I wasn't actually expecting you to find the vault..."
Heh. Normally, I would agree with you but this is a group of my personal friends (not random folks we picked up) and we've had much, much worse games than this in the past. The storyline for this game isn't so bad, it's just the wealth tables and the somewhat hackneyed alliances (entire village of orcs helping elves fight off the Red Wizards of Thay?) that makes me twitch. I have faith that, even if this game ends up screaming into the Abyss, we'll find something else and move on as if nothing had happened.Just as a precaution you should have an Adventure prepared that you can run at any time. I have a feeling this is gonna blow up and it is best to scrap together the survivors and start a whole new game without a break or you may lose players to other games, discontent or whatever.
Be ready, young Jedi, for I sense a disturbance in the force.
Just out of curiosity, could you tell us about the really bad campaigns? In fact my sister was a DM much like your DM, in one campaign my first level fighter walked out of a dungeon with 8 immovable rods under his belt. Crazyness!!
Just out of curiosity, could you tell us about the really bad campaigns? In fact my sister was a DM much like your DM, in one campaign my first level fighter walked out of a dungeon with 8 immovable rods under his belt. Crazyness!!
That just begs for a snarky comment. But I'll refrain. ;)
Scary c.c
Was this planned? I mean, did your DM have some notes jotted down listing this haul or did he just give it out at random?It wasn't planned in the slightest. When we got into the chamber and started running detect magic, he opened up the DMG and browsed it for a little while before announcing what we had found. It took him about 20 minutes to determine all the crap that was in there. He even told me after the game "I wasn't actually expecting you to find the vault..."
Sounds like he just kind of blew his sanity check under pressure of trying to cough up the goods. Basically he has to make a Nethereese Tomb seem plausible so an old +1 Dagger just was not going to cut it. However in an attempt to stay within the story line he totally messed up the wealth by level guidelines.
The moral of the story is never place treasure some where and assume that the players can't get it. At best you don't really gain much but some frustrated players - at worst the players get their grimy little paws on it anyway and your screwed six ways to Sunday. Just don't place the treasure.
Hm . . . the ironic thing is he could have said that there used to by a functioning Mythallar that powered all of the items that no longer functions, which essentially would have let you guys find a ton of masterwork items that can't be used as magic items unless you were in the vicinity of a Mythallar, thus making them useless unless you visited Thultanthar (Shade).
It really sounds like he tries to make up for the players complaints, without calculating the problems that this will cause him. Talk to him, and perhaps try to get the game down a notch or two. Hell, I have trouble throwing my PCs an encounter two or more levels beyond theirs, as it might be too difficult... But then, I heed the old wisdom: Magic is easily given, but hard to take away.
Stefan
"After laughter comes tears," something my German great grandmother would say when the children were laughing at the dinner table.Yeah, the old germans are a happy bunch, you can tell by their childrens fables. Usually a kid got ate up, lost, beaten, etc....
After laughter comes tears indeed!
Just joking, btw, I have nothing against old wienersnitzels.FH
Hey, do you imply that we germans are a overly invidious and cruel people, even in our tales??? Well, you may even be right... ;-)
True, old "childrens" tales are cruel and mean, with the intent to hit the young ones with the moral lesson of the story as subtly as a steamroller at full speed.
Stefan