Swallow Whole and Spellcasting

[MeanDM]

The thread on this board on disintigrate and swallow whole got me thinking about a problem I have run into before. If a character is swallowed by a monster with this ability, and is in the stomach, are they "grappled" per the rules. This is important for several reasons...do they need to make a grapple check to draw a light weapon? I mean, if they don't have one in hand, considering the grapple checks on many of these creatures the character may have no chance to cut their way out. Second, can spellcasters cast spells with somatic componants, do they need to make grapple checks to get ahold of material componants per the grapple rules? Thoughts?

[Joshua Randall]

I think if they were considered grappled the rules would say so.

So no grapple checks necessary to draw a weapon or get somatic components.

I do think that a spellcaster should have to make a Concentration check to get any spells off, given that he is taking continous damage (and possibly also facing "vigorous motion" while the monster moves around or the stomach contracts).

[Vegepygmy]

Joshua Randall wrote:

I think if they were considered grappled the rules would say so.

They do.

Monster Manual, page 315: "Being swallowed has various consequences, depending on the creature doing the swallowing. A swallowed creature is considered to be grappled, while the creature that did the swallowing is not."

[MeanDM]

Well, veg, it doesn't get much clearer than that. I just deleted a post saying that maybe the other poster was right. Thanks for being on top of the rule situation.

SO, next question is this a good rule. My experience is that if the character in question had a chance of beating grapple checks, they wouldn't be in the situation to begin with. I ran a game last saturday with a creature that had a 35 grapple and was CR13 against 10-11th level characters. Fighter with a 20 strength (high for that level) and +10 BAB is looking at a +15 grapple. No light weapon in hand = dead fighter. Let alone a cleric, rogue or wizard. And for abberations or things with swallow whole, their grapples are usually high for their challenge rating.

[Vegepygmy]

MeanDM wrote:

SO, next question is this a good rule.

I think it's a good rule. Or at least, it's not a bad rule. Getting swallowed whole is supposed to be A Very Unpleasant Thing.

MeanDM wrote:

My experience is that if the character in question had a chance of beating grapple checks, they wouldn't be in the situation to begin with. I ran a game last saturday with a creature that had a 35 grapple and was CR13 against 10-11th level characters. Fighter with a 20 strength (high for that level) and +10 BAB is looking at a +15 grapple.

This is why freedom of movement is virtually a must for any front-line fighter planning to take on Huge, Gargantuan, or Colossal monsters.

MeanDM wrote:

No light weapon in hand = dead fighter.

Two words: armor spikes.

MeanDM wrote:

Let alone a cleric, rogue or wizard.

Sometimes it is incumbent upon the players to not allow their characters to be placed in situations where they can be gobbled whole. I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for a wizard who puts himself in position to be grappled. (Of course, even the most cautious player will sometimes have unexpected things happen to them...but then, that's part of the game, too.)

[behemoth]

MeanDM wrote:

Well, veg, it doesn't get much clearer than that. I just deleted a post saying that maybe the other poster was right. Thanks for being on top of the rule situation.

SO, next question is this a good rule. My experience is that if the character in question had a chance of beating grapple checks, they wouldn't be in the situation to begin with. I ran a game last saturday with a creature that had a 35 grapple and was CR13 against 10-11th level characters. Fighter with a 20 strength (high for that level) and +10 BAB is looking at a +15 grapple. No light weapon in hand = dead fighter. Let alone a cleric, rogue or wizard. And for abberations or things with swallow whole, their grapples are usually high for their challenge rating.

Here are some rules we use in my campaign:

1. If the creature is more than 2 size categories larger, I ruled that the person swallowed can use medium weapons. This was under the assumption that the need for light weapons was due to the confines of the creatures stomach. (Think Jonah and the Whale...I wouldn't think he would have been limited to a light weapon there :) ).

2. I would allow magic users to cast spells/use wands, etc. but with a Concentration check (as mentioned earlier) for the movement and confinement.

3. I would also rule that fighters outside the creature can attempt a rescue by cutting there way into the creature. Allow them to make their attack (-4 for targeting a specific spot) with a slashing weapon and giving up actual damage. If their damage exceeds whatever the amount was needed for the person swallowed to escape, they managed to cut the creature open long enough for the person to escape and then it seals itself up again. (as if the person had escaped themselves.

The third rule allows for the saving of the Clerics and Wizards (and even Rogues and by making them give up their damage, your creature gets to live a bit longer and cause more trouble for them.

[Joshua Randall]

Vegepygmy wrote:

A swallowed creature is considered to be grappled, while the creature that did the swallowing is not."

D'oh!

*shoots self in head*