RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I know that the true seeing spell pierces illusions of all kinds, but will it reveal the true nature of a creature that has been polymorphed? What about natural shapeshifters like barghests or lycanthropes? Is there any spell, ability, etc. that would PREVENT true seeing from seeing their true forms if this is the case? Thanks!
According to the PH, True seeing "sees through illusions, and sees the true form of polymorphed, changed, or transmuted things."
I'm still looking on how to avoid being detected with that spell as it puts a nasty crimp in my superior invisibility.
Can you just go back to basics? It can't see through "mundane disguises" The fake mustache and all. Of course, if you're trying to disguise a twenty foot tall demon that won't work.
Dangit! Where's the spell check on this thing!
You can always try the "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" routine.
Is there any spell, ability, etc. that would PREVENT true seeing from seeing their true forms if this is the case?
Some people think nondetection can foil true seeing because it says: "If a divination is attempted against the warded creature or item, the caster of the divination must succeed on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against a DC of 11 + the caster level of the spellcaster who cast nondetection."
I don't completely agree with them, but a case can be made.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Of course, if you're trying to disguise a twenty foot tall demon that won't work.
Well, see, that *IS* the problem...
And Veg, good idea, but I don't want to have to resort to 'questionable DM tactics' for this. I'd prefer a handwavium artifact to changing the way certain spells function.
Okay, hmmm...How about put your shapechanged demon behind a wall and have him cast project image, that way, true seeing will only detect that the projected image is an illusion. It's a long way to go around I know, haven't been in the DM chair yet.
Okay, hmmm...How about put your shapechanged demon behind a wall and have him cast project image, that way, true seeing will only detect that the projected image is an illusion. It's a long way to go around I know, haven't been in the DM chair yet.
Actually, mundane subterfuge is an excellent idea. Most players stop searching once they've found the first rouse. If that is intended as a trap, then they will probably fall for it hook, line, and sinker. Not completely sure what your situation is, but try some bait-and-switch type things like this and see how that works.
Just on a tangent: I had a nasty trap idea once involving the illusion of a rock-throwing ogre and some alcoves along the wall with nasty effects. The idea is the players duck for cover in the alcoves and get blasted.
Now, back to nondetection- does a scryer using a crystal ball get to check against the spell, too, or does it simply not work at all? By placing their clause about crystal balls before the rules on the caster level checks, it confuses the issue somewhat.
If you're looking for an intermediate step between the handwavium artifact (which I have used once, sparingly) and presenting the party with a 22 foot tall demon in nose glasses and a brown trenchcoat, you could utilize a wish spell -- I've told portions of my gaming group that if I was a Pit Fiend my first yearly wish would be for my natural physical form to look like something other than a Pit Fiend. Something like an Elf, so that my suspicious habits of never sleeping, seeing in the dark, and not getting any older would seem sensible.
I've used that approach once too, and Thanis doesn't get to know when or with whom. *Cue Evil Laugh*
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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If you're looking for an intermediate step between the handwavium artifact (which I have used once, sparingly) and presenting the party with a 22 foot tall demon in nose glasses and a brown trenchcoat, you could utilize a wish spell
This seems like a viable option (since the creature in question does have access to the wish spell). The spell would alter his 'natural' form to be something else and thus, when true seeing detects his 'true' form, what the caster will see is what the creature wished to be true. This would remove the need for illusions entirely and would allow the creature to present himself to the PCs bodily (which is really what I was trying to do). Excellent!
Anyone see any potential issues with this approach? Anyone think this is inherently "unfair?"
FWIW, the creature in question is actually a great wyrm dragon, not a demon.
(Now I'm wondering, though, if the spell caused his 'natural' form to be that of a humanoid... how would he resume his draconic form if he wanted to? Hmmmm....)
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Now, back to nondetection- does a scryer using a crystal ball get to check against the spell, too, or does it simply not work at all? By placing their clause about crystal balls before the rules on the caster level checks, it confuses the issue somewhat.
I'd say that you would make the check as normal, using the caster level of the crystal ball's creator instead.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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THREAD NECROMANCY!!!!!!
I had another question along this line of thought:
Will true seeing reveal that a creature is possessed (via magic jar or similar means)? Back to the gigantic dragon example, if, say, this elder dragon possessed the body of a normal human, would true seeing perceive the human as having the shadow of a gigantic dragon around his form or would he appear normal since it is technically his true 'form' but not his true spirit?
No, I wouldn't think so. It doesn't see the "soul" of the creature. I'd just rule "no," and avoid any further attempts at abuse that might crop up if you rule "yes."
Magic jar is so fun! :)
Well you have hit upon the right idea there. One sure fire way of preventing true seeing from seeing your enemy would be to have him possessing someone. Perhaps someone close to the PCs.
Of course Fatespinner, from what you said on another thread you might have difficulty keeping the deception secret. ;-)
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Well you have hit upon the right idea there. One sure fire way of preventing true seeing from seeing your enemy would be to have him possessing someone. Perhaps someone close to the PCs.
Of course Fatespinner, from what you said on another thread you might have difficulty keeping the deception secret. ;-)
Hehe, I've discovered these boards as an outlet for my 'Evil Genius Syndrome.' I can tell all YOU people about my dastardly plans and my players will never know (because they don't visit the boards)! Mwahahahaha!
True Seeing is a great utility spell, but it's not all that. At 250 gp worth of material components with each casting it can get rather pricey, so most PCs are going to want to cast it in special situation, not just as a matter of SOP (standard operating procedure).
Foiling true seeing is not too hard.
It doesn't give you the ability to see through concealing garments or armor. It doesn't allow you to automatically spot hiding enemies. And a good Disguise trumps it most times (unless the PC has a better Spot check than the enemy's Disguise check). It has a range of 120 feet, so beyond that it's simply useless.
If I know that I'm going to have a player using this spell a lot, I'm not going to try to make it useless for them by keeping everything just out of its range or dressing them all in up in full plate armor, concealing robes, or uber disguises. On the contrary, I'll conceal a door once in a while with illusory wall for the PC to find, maybe try to run a con with a polymorphed baddy that the player can shine by calling the bad guy out. There are many ways to make it fun for the PC and rewarding. But that player's going to run into some times where the spell may fail him, too. A high level casting of non-detection on a villain; something as simple as a secret door concealed by mundane means but with great cunning (high DC on the Search); perhaps a group of assassins that have the Hide in Plain Sight ability that the PCs fail to spot.
Anyhoo, my two cents on the matter.
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You could try to swing things to where the p.c. actually sees what the fiendish bastard really is, but scads of n.p.c.'s involved don't. He appears to be Melvin the Mop Boy and plays it to the hilt. Everybody's known Melvin for years. They all love his simple ways.
What they don't know is that Chakdar the Pit Fiend has slain him and taken his image.
Chakdar knows the p.c.'s know what he is. Chakdar knows the p.c.'s know he knows they know. Chakdar's going to have fun with this.