I have seen mention several times that the Seven Deadly Sins will play a prominent role in this campaign. While I am fine with this conceptually, I am also cognizent that these are not a universally held list, but are specifically from the Catholic religion (I think). That being the case and I am assuming Catholocism will not exist in this world, will there be a good, in depth, description on where these come from?
I guess I am worried that a backdrop the size of Diamond Lake, while great for a very indepth look at a small city, is going to leave MANY things missing from an overall campaign setting view.
For example... chances are there will be a cleric or Paladin in the party and they will want to know about their gods. That means there will be space taken up for general descriptions as well as mechanics (favored weapons, domains, etc., etc.).
Anyway... just curious... I could easily see an entire 96 page Pathfinder being just a campaign setting...
Sean Mahoney
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I have seen mention several times that the Seven Deadly Sins will play a prominent role in this campaign. While I am fine with this conceptually, I am also cognizent that these are not a universally held list, but are specifically from the Catholic religion (I think). That being the case and I am assuming Catholocism will not exist in this world, will there be a good, in depth, description on where these come from?
Sean Mahoney
While the list does come from Christianity, the basic seven are generally considered 'bad' by most major religions of the world, and thus not too hard to shoehorn into place.
For those not familiar, they are in no particular order:
Wrath, Gluttony, Envy, Avarice (Greed), Lust, Sloth and Pride.
The only one I could see being kinda 'iffy' for some gods is Pride. Heck, for some 'good' gods, Pride could be a major tenet. It's the sin that makes us want to smack some of the biggest of the 'goody goody' types.
They could be some sort of thematic truths, or simply an undercurrent that's slowly revealed as a past history. There's nothing that says this list has to be handed down by the current gods.
1. Strength is better than weakness
2. Courage is better than cowardice
3. Joy is better than guilt
4. Honour is better than dishonour
5. Freedom is better than slavery
6. Kinship is better than alienation
7. Realism is better than dogmatism
8. Vigor is better than lifelessness
9. Ancestry is better than universalism
or simpler, the older 6-fold command: Right, Wisdom, Might, Harvest, Frith and Love.
For us of the North, still faithful to the elder gods.
Sin Magic: divine or arcane?
Sounds pretty neutral to me, but then again Karzoug is a wizard.
Sin magic is arcane, since it's basically a variant on wizard specialists.
Thanks a lot Mr. Jacobs, but this will disappoint my player aiming for cleric turned dark side. :(
In the beginning it sounded not that intriguing to me neither, but now I can't hardly wait for it.
Creative Director
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Sin magic is arcane, since it's basically a variant on wizard specialists.Thanks a lot Mr. Jacobs, but this will disappoint my player aiming for cleric turned dark side. :(
In the beginning it sounded not that intriguing to me neither, but now I can't hardly wait for it.
There will be PLENTY of options for clerics turning to the dark side in our world, never fear!
Hmmm. I'm thinking those of you who find the idea of the seven deadly sins to be intriguing might want to check out GameMastery Module D2: Seven Swords of Sin. Looks like it, possibly, ties in... somehow.
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Hmmm. I'm thinking those of you who find the idea of the seven deadly sins to be intriguing might want to check out GameMastery Module D2: Seven Swords of Sin. Looks like it, possibly, ties in... somehow.
I already plan on picking up most of these modules. Extra settings, more adventures, and more stuff to inflict on my players is a joy.
I admit, I need to get back on the 'ol DMing bike, it's been a few years. Which is why I love published material I can twist and pervert and torment people with - less prep time, more time spent at the table messing with my players.
Hopefully I can give them all nightmares again. Heeheehee...
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I'm a big fan of Green Ronin's "Book of the Righteous" and it inspired me to pick up the "Unholy Warrior's Handbook." The latter includes some good stuff for creating characters focused on one or more of the Deadly Sins.
Has anyone at Paizo Central, or others eagerly awaiting the chance to jump into the new world being crafted there, given thought to incorporating the material of this book into their "Runelords" adventures/campaigns? James, since it seems (from reading the blog) that this Path grew significantly out of your past/current campaigns, have you used the "Unholy Warrior's Handbook"?
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Creative Director
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James, since it seems (from reading the blog) that this Path grew significantly out of your past/current campaigns, have you used the "Unholy Warrior's Handbook"?
I bought a copy of it (and one of "Book of the Righteous") when they came out, but I never really had a chance to incorporate much from them. "Unholy Warrior's Handbook" seems pretty nifty though. "Book of the Righteous" was neat, but it was TOO much, especially for me, since I already had about that much information about my world's deities written up (although not all in one neat place).
Hmmm. I'm thinking those of you who find the idea of the seven deadly sins to be intriguing might want to check out GameMastery Module D2: Seven Swords of Sin. Looks like it, possibly, ties in... somehow.
Of all the GameMastery Modules on the schedule at the moment, D2 is certainly the one with the closest ties to Rise of the Runelords, and inside will be plenty of info that helps expand our world, including tidbits about Thassilon. You won't, however, get an overview of the system for sin magic - there's simply not enough room in a 32-page module to do it justice. For that, you'll have to wait for volume five of Pathfinder. It is my sincere hope, however, that you'll find more than enough weirdness in Seven Swords to keep you interested. :)
-James (author of D2: Seven Swords of Sin)
RE Seven Swords of Sin. If you REALLY want to get a feel for that module, you need to go to GenCon. Paizo's delve event will take place in the same rooms that your PCs will be exploring in the module.
Yes, you can hack your way through Tirana's lair and then pick up your copy of the module on the other side!
RE Seven Swords of Sin. If you REALLY want to get a feel for that module, you need to go to GenCon. Paizo's delve event will take place in the same rooms that your PCs will be exploring in the module.
Yes, you can hack your way through Tirana's lair and then pick up your copy of the module on the other side!
Yup! I want to point out, though, that the module will not just be the delve repackaged. Many of the same traps, hazards, and monsters will show up, but the rooms themselves have been scrambled and rewritten to include more story and thematic tying (not to mention keeping people who buy it at the con from using it as a roadmap for the delve!). Plus, the module is about twice the size of the delve, so you can expect to see numerous new rooms, plus some of the anarchic outlaw city above, new monsters, new magic items... you get the idea.
Ok, just read the blog with the symbols of each sin... but there are eight symbols. Which one is Wrath, and what is the remaining one?
Yass, yass, I was wondering the same thing. Certainly, all the runes are correctly matched to their corresponding sin, but interpreting either of the upper left runes as wrath works! Hmmmmm....
The way I see it, the top left one is the one I don't understand.
Wrath looks like a furious person with their hands off to each side.
Pride looks like a person claiming thiumph.
Envey looks like someone trying to embrace.
Greed is a hand taking something.
Gluttony is a large body with a tiny head.
Lust looks like a woman's head an hair (took a bit for me to figure that out).
Sloth is someone laying down.
The only thing I can think of for the upper left is the "Universal" that was mentioned before. But I can't picture what it is.
I agree with tdewitt274's guesses, except I see:
Envy as an eye (looking at other peoples stuff),
Lust as half a heart or a man with an erect phallus or both,
and I would add that gluttony is a fat man patting his belly.
Good call, the Envy one didn't make much sense to me.
The Lust is kinda like the Def Leppard "Retro-Active", instead of the lady in the mirror/skull.
The Wrath rune (I'm using the top left one) looks like a helmet to me, viking-beserker type. Envy looks like two half-lidded eyes, looking out in envy. Lust. that's a little harder, the sinuousness (is that even a word?) of the rune's shape can be suggestive. Actually though, I count eight runes..the one top center - is that another symbol for Wrath or Pride? Gluttony, Greed and Sloth are easy ones.
Envy as an eye (looking at other peoples stuff),
I don't know, it looks like a greedy figure bringing back all the gold coins on a table to his breast to me ("embracing the gold").
If the top of the Lust rune is the head of the half erect human, it seems to be quite hypnotised by his own appendix/triangle just midway of his body.
The fat-man rubbing his belly of Gluttony is not a bad call. Maybe the arms/hands are also stuffing stuff in his mouth at the same time?
And the left wrath rune looks like a bull's head to me.
But why is there two wrath runes??
Bocklin
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And the left wrath rune looks like a bull's head to me.
But why is there two wrath runes??
Bocklin
Maybe Wrath is tied to the sexes?
Or my idea, wrath can be righteous and insidious, the left wrath symbol is the righteous and very direct version of Wrath, it's all edgy and pointy. The left version of Wrath is more insideous, it's a more planned approach to getting even.
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The top-left symbol looks like the legs of a body being dragged through a doorway. The one to its right, which I think is supposed to be wrath, is a person dual-weilding some weapons that glint. Pride is a humanoid standing with its arms raised. Envy is a humanoid bent down and grabbing a pile of loot. Greed is a hand grasping a gem. Gluttony looks like an enormous open mouth and a nose above it. Lust looks like one humanoid standing whie only the head of another kneals before it. (Though another poster had a good call in that it could be a lock of hair plus an ear with earring.) Sloth is a reclining humanoid next to a tray.
I'm revising my Wrath statement. Face (eyes, eyebrows, nose) with that pulsing vein in the forehead.
There's two wrath runes, I believe, because Jeff gave us a choice as to which rune we wanted to go with. We've chosen which one we like, but I can't remember off the top of my head which one it is.
Ah! At first I was like, there are 8 symbols here guys. I like the second one better than the first for wrath, because it is more dynamic. Wrath should be out-of-control.
Wrath: Meh. Hard to say. The second rune is, in my opinion, better than the first, though.
Pride:A person 'punching' the sky.
Envy: An eye.
Greed: A hand stealing something.
Gluttony: An immense mouth, under a small nose.
Lust: A busty woman, with long hair.
Sloth: A sleeping, or at least reclining, person.
Im trying to figure out some of the Sins
I have a player who is very racist towards Gnomes and im trying to figure out what Sin it is please help
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Im trying to figure out some of the Sins
I have a player who is very racist towards Gnomes and im trying to figure out what Sin it is please help
Several could be applicable:
Wrath: Fairly obvious. Wrath and irrational hatred go hand in hand.
Envy: Depending on why he hates gnomes. If he hates them because he's jealous of their magical abilities, envy works.
Avarice :On the other hand, if he hates them because they're taking up resources that should be his, then Avarice is the way to go.
Finally we end up with Pride: My race is so much better that you should worship us and if tyou don't you get kicked.
Any could work. You know your player and his motivations best.
Don't think Gluttony, Lust or Sloth really work as racism surrogates.
Don't think Gluttony, Lust or Sloth really work as racism surrogates.Im trying to figure out some of the Sins
I have a player who is very racist towards Gnomes and im trying to figure out what Sin it is please help
Given some of the reactions to Lini, and the gnome in the races line-up, that might not be as out of the question as one would think.
Im trying to figure out some of the Sins
I have a player who is very racist towards Gnomes and im trying to figure out what Sin it is please help
Several could be applicable:
Wrath: Fairly obvious. Wrath and irrational hatred go hand in hand.
Envy: Depending on why he hates gnomes. If he hates them because he's jealous of their magical abilities, envy works.
Avarice :On the other hand, if he hates them because they're taking up resources that should be his, then Avarice is the way to go.
Finally we end up with Pride: My race is so much better that you should worship us and if tyou don't you get kicked.
Any could work. You know your player and his motivations best.
Don't think Gluttony, Lust or Sloth really work as racism surrogates.
He Hates Gnomes because a gnome was responsible for his sister being kidnapped and after being rescued ran away from home
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He Hates Gnomes because a gnome was responsible for his sister being kidnapped and after being rescued ran away from homeIm trying to figure out some of the Sins
I have a player who is very racist towards Gnomes and im trying to figure out what Sin it is please help
Several could be applicable:
Wrath: Fairly obvious. Wrath and irrational hatred go hand in hand.
Envy: Depending on why he hates gnomes. If he hates them because he's jealous of their magical abilities, envy works.
Avarice :On the other hand, if he hates them because they're taking up resources that should be his, then Avarice is the way to go.
Finally we end up with Pride: My race is so much better that you should worship us and if tyou don't you get kicked.
Any could work. You know your player and his motivations best.
Don't think Gluttony, Lust or Sloth really work as racism surrogates.
That's probably Wrath then. Applying a justified hatred of one gnome to whole race is pretty much textbook letting your anger get the better of you.