paizo.com Recent Posts by Tristan Windseekerpaizo.com Recent Posts by Tristan Windseeker2013-06-20T03:00:07Z2013-06-20T03:00:07ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: Please congratulate Sean Goodman on his fifth star!Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sqb0?Please-congratulate-Sean-Goodman-on-his-fifth#122015-08-05T01:32:32Z2015-08-05T01:32:32Z<p>Sean Goodman! The most illustrious of GMs. Congratulations! This is long and well deserved.</p>
<p>Them Vileblade boys are in a heap o' trouble.</p>Sean Goodman! The most illustrious of GMs. Congratulations! This is long and well deserved.
Them Vileblade boys are in a heap o' trouble.Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2015-08-05T01:32:32ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: PFS @ GenCon Bloggery - Painlord Edition 2015Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sppl?PFS-GenCon-Bloggery-Painlord-Edition-2015#482015-08-01T21:24:36Z2015-08-01T05:58:01Z<p>FYI I'm not the GM in question. I just heard the story. Most players abide by the muster process, and don't use their special message boards status to get around it. A formal apology to your GM and abiding by the same rules everyone else does in the future would probably be appropriate.</p>
<p>Fighting cronyism in all its forms,
<br />
The Shadow Lodge</p>FYI I'm not the GM in question. I just heard the story. Most players abide by the muster process, and don't use their special message boards status to get around it. A formal apology to your GM and abiding by the same rules everyone else does in the future would probably be appropriate.
Fighting cronyism in all its forms,
The Shadow LodgeTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2015-08-01T05:58:01ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: PFS @ GenCon Bloggery - Painlord Edition 2015Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sppl?PFS-GenCon-Bloggery-Painlord-Edition-2015#452015-08-01T08:19:52Z2015-08-01T05:14:10Z<p>Hey, shouldn't you mention how you bailed on your first GM for 7-00, and how she almost didn't get to run the special at all because of it?</p>Hey, shouldn't you mention how you bailed on your first GM for 7-00, and how she almost didn't get to run the special at all because of it?Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2015-08-01T05:14:10ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: The Waking Rune on Hard Mode - Wish Us Luck!Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qzp4&page=2?The-Waking-Rune-on-Hard-Mode-Wish-Us-Luck#892014-12-22T20:22:25Z2014-12-22T20:22:25Z<p>There is a precedent in the Samsaran alternate racial ability of being able to add arcane spells (such as the Summoner's Haste) to a Wizard's spell book and obtain the spell at a lower level, even though the spell is available at higher Wizard level. That said, I see the argument, but short of a dev clarification we must simply agree to disagree. My understanding is that Simulacrum is both a sorcerer/wizard spell of 7th level AND a non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 5th level, making it a legal cast from Limited Wish. The two spells are different spells (Summoner 5 Simulacrum vs Wizard 7 Simulacrum) with different properties (for example the Wizard version requires a Greater Metamagic Rod, while the Summoner version does not).</p>
<p>Simulacrum has the rubies and the ice sculpture specifically listed as a material component (see the spell's M listing). Not an extra cost like Gate or Planar Ally. Thus it can be ignored by being an SLA.</p>
<p>It wasn't Monks in an antimagic field. It was a creature with natural invisibility that had pounce, grab, constrict, and quite a few more in an extremely large area that was entirely within an antimagic field. The difficulty level here was challenging but similar to other PFS scenarios.</p>
<p>Actually the GM took the time to painfully de-level the creature so its simulacrum was much weaker than the original. From what I heard, some bad luck with PC dice contributed to the struggle. The tactics in this mod allow a 30 INT immortal herald of a deity to use Limited Wish to the best of its abilities in a scenario marked specifically as being extra-difficult and having a "Hard Mode."</p>There is a precedent in the Samsaran alternate racial ability of being able to add arcane spells (such as the Summoner's Haste) to a Wizard's spell book and obtain the spell at a lower level, even though the spell is available at higher Wizard level. That said, I see the argument, but short of a dev clarification we must simply agree to disagree. My understanding is that Simulacrum is both a sorcerer/wizard spell of 7th level AND a non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 5th level, making it a legal...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2014-12-22T20:22:25ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: The Waking Rune on Hard Mode - Wish Us Luck!Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qzp4&page=2?The-Waking-Rune-on-Hard-Mode-Wish-Us-Luck#852014-12-22T19:53:10Z2014-12-22T19:53:10Z<p>The particular tactic that was used was actually originally thought up by one of the players at the table (a Venture Officer).</p>
<p>Simulacrum would normally require material components, except that in this case the Limited Wish was a spell-like ability, meaning that no material components were required. Otherwise, how does a Glabrezu grant a mortal a Wish?</p>
<p>Simulacrum is on the summoner list as a 5th level spell. Therefore, it meets the criteria for Limited Wish (a non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 5th level). The caster just needs to duplicate the Summoner version of it; i.e. "I wish to cast Simulacrum as a summoner."</p>
<p>This setup, while extremely challenging, does not seem as difficult as a Season Zero PFS scenario, where one has to deal with three greater invisible creatures that are grapple-pin-tie up specialists in a potentially in-escapable anti-magic field. This particular tactic was therefore not outside the difficulty realm of PFS, and also resulted in one monster being completely nerfed, as it had to stay in the anti-magic field and could not use any of its spells against the PCs effectively.</p>The particular tactic that was used was actually originally thought up by one of the players at the table (a Venture Officer).
Simulacrum would normally require material components, except that in this case the Limited Wish was a spell-like ability, meaning that no material components were required. Otherwise, how does a Glabrezu grant a mortal a Wish?
Simulacrum is on the summoner list as a 5th level spell. Therefore, it meets the criteria for Limited Wish (a non-sorcerer/wizard spell of...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2014-12-22T19:53:10ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Greensting Slayer Sneak AttackTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qr84?Greensting-Slayer-Sneak-Attack#32014-03-11T23:48:54Z2014-03-11T23:48:54Z<p>Thanks for the information from that post!</p>Thanks for the information from that post!Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2014-03-11T23:48:54ZForums: Rules Questions: Greensting Slayer Sneak AttackTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qr84?Greensting-Slayer-Sneak-Attack#12014-03-04T05:49:38Z2014-03-04T05:49:09Z<p>Can the <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/archetypes/paizo—-magus-archetypes/greensting-slayer" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Greensting Slayer</a> Magus from Bastards of Golarion take feats/abilities that modify Sneak Attack?</p>
<p>For example, could a Greensting Slayer Magus take the Sap Adept feat (which requires 1d6 Sneak Attack) at level 1 and the Sap Master feat (which requires 3d6 Sneak Attack) at level 9?</p>
<p>I do not see a problem with allowing this in my home games, but wanted to know the developer's intent (and potentially get a PFS clarification).</p>Can the Greensting Slayer Magus from Bastards of Golarion take feats/abilities that modify Sneak Attack?
For example, could a Greensting Slayer Magus take the Sap Adept feat (which requires 1d6 Sneak Attack) at level 1 and the Sap Master feat (which requires 3d6 Sneak Attack) at level 9?
I do not see a problem with allowing this in my home games, but wanted to know the developer's intent (and potentially get a PFS clarification).Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2014-03-04T05:49:09ZForums: GM Discussion: 5-15 Destiny of the Sands P2 *SPOILERS*Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qqot?515-Destiny-of-the-Sands-P2-SPOILERS#12014-02-27T21:39:22Z2014-02-27T21:39:22Z<p>I like this scenario; some cool backstory and interesting exploration elements. The PCs get to be Pathfinders rather than run errands (like in the not-so-great previous one).</p>
<p>I had a few questions:</p>
<p>1) It appears that the only advantage/disadvantage for how long it takes the PCs to reach Seeker's Folly is the following:
<br />
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>If the PCs arrive ahead of schedule, the extra time they have to explore grants them a +2 bonus on Knowledge, Linguistics, and Perceptions checks while exploring area B. If they arrive late, they are forced to rush and instead take a –1 penalty on these checks.</blockquote><p>This seems a little contrived to me and I dislike it from a mechanical sense; the PCs do not know how long it will take Yjalk to reach the ruins, and would not necessarily know to "go faster" or that they could "take their time." Also, after Yjalk arrives and is negotiated with or defeated and the Sage of Plagues is put down, wouldn't the PCs have as much time as they needed to explore the ruins before contacting Amenopheus? I fully expect PCs who have not solved certain riddles to continue trying (perhaps even waiting a day, unless Amenopheus wants to leave for the Pillars right away) before leaving the place.
<p>2) What kind of information can the PCs get from the sarcophagus? Do any of the corpses from B12 work? What about the corpses of Torch's old team? What information would these corpses provide? Is there some recommended background reading on what could be provided by knowing the history of Osirion up to the Song Pharaoh? I can wing it if necessary, but would like to provide actual answers.</p>
<p>3) Is there a book containing some additional background information on the Jeweled Sages? One of the new Mummy's Mask-associated products perhaps? Some background on the order would really help with the framing of this scenario.</p>I like this scenario; some cool backstory and interesting exploration elements. The PCs get to be Pathfinders rather than run errands (like in the not-so-great previous one).
I had a few questions:
1) It appears that the only advantage/disadvantage for how long it takes the PCs to reach Seeker's Folly is the following:
Quote:If the PCs arrive ahead of schedule, the extra time they have to explore grants them a +2 bonus on Knowledge, Linguistics, and Perceptions checks while exploring area...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2014-02-27T21:39:22ZForums: Rules Questions: Storm of Blades spell questionTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ql1s?Storm-of-Blades-spell-question#12014-02-04T06:29:11Z2014-01-17T18:59:45Z<p>I had a few questions about the new Storm of Blades spell from People of the Sands.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
Storm of Blades
<br />
School conjuration (creation); Level cleric 3, magus 2, sorcerer/wizard 2
<br />
Casting Time 1 standard action components V, S, M (a sword) range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
<br />
Target one creature
<br />
Duration instantaneous
<br />
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
<br />
You create floating swords of the type used as the material component for this spell (such as a rapier or scimitar) and magically propel them at your target. You can create one sword for every 2 caster levels that you possess, up to a maximum of five swords at 10th level. You must have line of effect between you and the target, and the target must be within the spell’s range. You make a ranged attack roll for each sword (with no penalties for range increments or using melee weapons as ranged weapons); each attack has the same threat range and critical modifier and deals the same damage as a standard sword of the type expended. Swords created by this spell disappear after striking (or missing) their targets.
<br />
</blockquote><p>Do the blades simply do the base damage for each sword, or do they add Strength to damage as well?
<p>Also, would "lead blades" work on the blades from this spell? I would assume no, as the spell says there are no penalties for using melee weapons as ranged weapons, but lead blades requires melee attacks.</p>
<p>Also, if a large creature cast this spell at an opponent, would the base damage for each blade be higher?</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>I had a few questions about the new Storm of Blades spell from People of the Sands.
Quote:Storm of Blades
School conjuration (creation); Level cleric 3, magus 2, sorcerer/wizard 2
Casting Time 1 standard action components V, S, M (a sword) range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one creature
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
You create floating swords of the type used as the material component for this spell (such as a rapier or scimitar) and magically propel...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2014-01-17T18:59:45ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: 5-11 Library of the Lion GM DiscussionTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qk2i?511-Library-of-the-Lion-GM-Discussion#242014-01-13T06:28:49Z2014-01-13T06:28:49Z<p>I see, understood. My mistake.</p>
<p>Sorry for the confusion.</p>I see, understood. My mistake.
Sorry for the confusion.Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2014-01-13T06:28:49ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: 5-11 Library of the Lion GM DiscussionTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qk2i?511-Library-of-the-Lion-GM-Discussion#222014-03-24T13:16:06Z2014-01-13T05:06:32Z<p>The cipher appears to be incorrect in the scenario.</p>
<p>It says: consonants three places after, vowels two places before</p>
<p>It should say: consonants three places before, vowels two places after</p>
<p>This led to a lot of confusion at the table I played at. In the future, please double check things like this before publishing.</p>The cipher appears to be incorrect in the scenario.
It says: consonants three places after, vowels two places before
It should say: consonants three places before, vowels two places after
This led to a lot of confusion at the table I played at. In the future, please double check things like this before publishing.Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2014-01-13T05:06:32ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: Season 5 Faction "missions"Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qi2z&page=3?Season-5-Faction-missions#1332014-01-04T03:52:21Z2014-01-04T03:36:23Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Michael Brock wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">BigNorseWolf wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee"> Michal Brock wrote:</div><blockquote>If the success conditions are clearly defined, and we leave it to the GMs to creatively provide this info to players and allow players to complete their missions creatively, and it isn't happening, how are we ever supposed to allow GMs to be more creative in altering other things written in the scenario, such as difficulty of combats and the like?</blockquote><p>Do DMs know they're supposed to be providing that information creatively? If you look upthread there's the opinion that its now the players' responsibility to have that information when they sit down at the table.
<p></blockquote>I would think a quality GM would provide information creatively without having to be told. I can't remember if we included this in the guide under GM creativity, and if we didn't, we will remedy that in the next version of the guide. </blockquote><p>Mike, keeping this in mind, would it be acceptable for us as GMs to write up 3-5 sentence player handouts that provide hints that direct players towards their faction missions and faction goals? Perhaps, these notes could even be written from the perspective of the faction leader and use language specific to that leader's background; these notes could even include a portrait and signature. This would allow for players to feel more immersed in the world of Golarion and have a stronger personal connection to their faction leaders.
<p>The above paragraph is tongue-in-cheek, but illustrates the major problems with not having faction missions in Season 5. When running games for new players, it is almost impossible to explain the faction system and give the players an idea of who they are working for and why.</p>Michael Brock wrote:BigNorseWolf wrote: Michal Brock wrote:If the success conditions are clearly defined, and we leave it to the GMs to creatively provide this info to players and allow players to complete their missions creatively, and it isn't happening, how are we ever supposed to allow GMs to be more creative in altering other things written in the scenario, such as difficulty of combats and the like?
Do DMs know they're supposed to be providing that information creatively? If you look...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2014-01-04T03:36:23ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: #05-07 Port Godless [Spoilers, I'm sure]Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qb8u&page=2?0507-Port-Godless-Spoilers-Im-sure#742013-12-20T22:53:22Z2013-12-20T22:53:22Z<p>Thanks for all of the notes. I'm running this one tomorrow, and had a few minor questions and one major question.</p>
<p>1) At low tier, shouldn't Sophini have Black Tentacles in her spellbook? She seems to have made the Black Tentacles trap, so it was a little odd to see that she only knows the spell at high tier.</p>
<p>2) At high tier, shouldn't Sophini have Lesser Planar Binding in her spellbook? She seems to have used this spell (and the +2 HD bonus from being a Blackfire Adept) to call the Ceustodaemons. It appears a scroll would not suffice, as she needs the bonus from her Blackfire Pact to call the creature.</p>
<p>3) At low tier, how did Sophini call the Ceustodaemons? If she used scrolls, shouldn't the creatures not have the Blackfire Pact bonus?</p>
<p>4) I had a major question about the flow of the scenario. If the PCs have to fight the Pure Legion in the bathhouse, I am unsure of how they get one day to scout out the Blackfire Adept compound. It seems that the PCs will be observed fighting the Pure Legion by various bystanders in the bathhouse. This would then lead to the PCs being wanted criminals in town; wouldn't various bystanders and Pure Legion members now receive Perception checks to spot the PCs and call for backup? It seems that the PCs would be unable to wander the streets of Azir gathering information for a day if they attacked the Pure Legion.</p>
<p>The only thing that made sense to me was requiring the PCs to assault the compound without being able to gather information if they attacked the Pure Legion in the bathhouse. I figured Eando could sneak them outside through the undercity; they would then have to go to the compound and assault it immediately without any preparation, or risk arrest.</p>
<p>Does this make sense?</p>Thanks for all of the notes. I'm running this one tomorrow, and had a few minor questions and one major question.
1) At low tier, shouldn't Sophini have Black Tentacles in her spellbook? She seems to have made the Black Tentacles trap, so it was a little odd to see that she only knows the spell at high tier.
2) At high tier, shouldn't Sophini have Lesser Planar Binding in her spellbook? She seems to have used this spell (and the +2 HD bonus from being a Blackfire Adept) to call the...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-12-20T22:53:22ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: Please reconsider "Rebuilds" for after the Advanced Class Guide PlaytestTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qdug?Please-reconsider-Rebuilds-for-after-the#152013-11-22T17:13:42Z2013-11-22T17:13:42Z<p>Mike,</p>
<p>If this is the case, I would ask you to please reconsider and allow full rebuilds for play testers after the final book is released.</p>
<p>Many of the classes are being heavily modified; certain character concepts may not fit the revised versions of these classes. For example, to use the class you brought up, it was announced that the Arcanist is going to be almost completely redesigned after feedback; the arcanist is now going to represent an "eater of magic" or "magic absorber" rather than someone who was "born gifted and researched their talents." This redesign might not fit a character that someone wants to play; I do not think it is fair to punish them for using their time to provide Paizo with feedback and input, especially when that feedback led to a major change in the class.</p>
<p>Because (barring the use of GM stars) credit can only be gained for a given scenario once as a player, every play opportunity is precious. Forcing someone to change their character concept as the classes are developed and released will thus greatly discourage them from participating in the playtests, which will harm Paizo and the Adcanced Class Guide as a whole.</p>
<p>Allowing a rebuild after the playtest is over, even just a partial rebuild of only the playtest classes, would greatly increase the helpful feedback that Paizo receives and help them provide a higher quality product. Pathfinder Society scenarios are a perfect way to ensure that these new classes receive a balanced playtest, and paricipants should be encouraged rather than punished.</p>Mike,
If this is the case, I would ask you to please reconsider and allow full rebuilds for play testers after the final book is released.
Many of the classes are being heavily modified; certain character concepts may not fit the revised versions of these classes. For example, to use the class you brought up, it was announced that the Arcanist is going to be almost completely redesigned after feedback; the arcanist is now going to represent an "eater of magic" or "magic absorber" rather...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-11-22T17:13:42ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: Please reconsider "Rebuilds" for after the Advanced Class Guide PlaytestTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qdug?Please-reconsider-Rebuilds-for-after-the#42013-11-21T22:38:43Z2013-11-21T22:38:43Z<p>I was simply confused because the Additional Resources states that:
<br />
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote> You will be forced to update your character—adjusting only the features that have changed, not rebuilding entirely—once the Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide is released. </blockquote><p>Additionally, Mike Brock stated in a thread that:
</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Michael Brock wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Finlanderboy wrote:</div><blockquote> Will we have the option to change out of the play test classes when it is finished? </blockquote>Only through the retraining rules as they are currently laid out. </blockquote><p>The PFS Guide, as you mentioned Dragnmoon, does allow changes and even full rebuilds in certain cases. If the PFS Guide rules apply here, then I am happy with the playtest as it stands.
<p>However, the Additional Resources page and Mike Brock's quote above do not match what is stated in the guide. (Finlanderboy's question about changing out of the playtest classes would be covered by point 2 in the guide, allowing a full rebuild to current XP. However, Mike suggested that the Ultimate Campaign retraining rules would be necessary to change out of the Playtest classes.)</p>I was simply confused because the Additional Resources states that:
Quote:You will be forced to update your character—adjusting only the features that have changed, not rebuilding entirely—once the Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide is released.
Additionally, Mike Brock stated in a thread that:
Michael Brock wrote:Finlanderboy wrote: Will we have the option to change out of the play test classes when it is finished?
Only through the retraining rules as they are currently laid out. The PFS...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-11-21T22:38:43ZRe: Forums: Class Discussion: Brawler DiscussionTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qdj7&page=6?Brawler-Discussion#2972013-11-21T22:17:11Z2013-11-21T22:17:11Z<p>I had perhaps an obvious question, but I did not see it in the thread so far.</p>
<p>As written, the Monk (when using Flurry of Blows) can flurry a weapon such as a Temple Sword or Sansetsukon, taking a -2 penalty on all attack rolls to gain a few extra attacks.</p>
<p>However, the Brawler seems a little different. Unlike a Monk, the Brawler seems to actually be using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat when flurrying, with the exception that the same weapon can be used for all of the attacks.</p>
<p>On the surface, this seems to be a very similar ability. However, as written, this seems to imply that a Brawler can only flurry effectively with light weapons, due to the specific use of the TWF feat rather than overriding it and calling out the exact attack penalty:
<br />
1) Both a Monk and a Brawler can flurry with unarmed strikes (a light weapon). They seem to have a similar attack bonus when doing so (Monk level -2 vs. Brawler BAB -2).
<br />
2) Both a Monk and a Brawler can flurry with a Temple Sword. However, the Brawler seems to have a reduced attack bonus for this weapon (Monk level -2 vs. Brawler BAB -4). This is because in this case, the "off-hand weapon" for TWF (the Temple Sword) is not a light weapon.
<br />
3) A Monk can flurry with a Sansetsukon (with attack bonus = Monk level -2). However, a Brawler cannot flurry with a Sansetsukon, as it is a two-handed weapon and cannot be used with TWF.</p>
<p>Are these differences intentional?</p>I had perhaps an obvious question, but I did not see it in the thread so far.
As written, the Monk (when using Flurry of Blows) can flurry a weapon such as a Temple Sword or Sansetsukon, taking a -2 penalty on all attack rolls to gain a few extra attacks.
However, the Brawler seems a little different. Unlike a Monk, the Brawler seems to actually be using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat when flurrying, with the exception that the same weapon can be used for all of the attacks.
On the surface,...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-11-21T22:17:11ZForums: Pathfinder Society: Please reconsider "Rebuilds" for after the Advanced Class Guide PlaytestTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qdug?Please-reconsider-Rebuilds-for-after-the#12013-11-21T21:55:07Z2013-11-21T21:54:57Z<p>This post is intended for campaign staff (Mike Brock and John Compton).</p>
<p>As it stands, according to Additional Resources, once the playtest is over:
<br />
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>You will be forced to update your character—adjusting only the features that have changed, not rebuilding entirely—once the Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide is released.</blockquote><p>Please reconsider this decision. This decision will make it much less likely that people will be willing to try out the new classes, and at the moment, the playtest would greatly benefit from observations of how the new classes function in Pathfinder Society.
<p>Currently, there are discussions going around the playtest boards (some of which have even been noted as being flagged for dev team review by Jason Buhlman and Sean K. Reynolds) about making relatively major changes (at least in a PFS context) to some of the classes, including but not limited to:
<br />
1) What weapons certain classes can use with their class abilities (Swashbuckler).
<br />
2) Which ability scores are used for certain class features (Slayer).
<br />
3) Whether or not certain abilities should be scrapped altogether and replaced with a new mechanic (Bloodrager, Investigator).
<br />
4) Whether the Hybrid Classes qualify for feats that require levels in the base classes (Brawler, Swashbuckler, Warpriest).</p>
<p>These changes might cause a character build in Society to become very different and even potentially unplayable; for example, a weapon that has had a great deal of money invested into it might become unusable, certain saving throw DCs might become very low, or certain characters might lose access to certain feat chains that are integral to their build.</p>
<p>I do not think there is any harm in allowing a free rebuild for those who are willing to try out these new classes and provide feedback for Paizo to improve its products. I think it would greatly increase the number of people willing to provide feedback if a rebuild option were provided. Allowing this one-time rebuild should not lead to any exploitation of the rules; rebuilds have already been allowed in the past for those who have had their character class changed (for example, the Hellknight prestige class). Perhaps it would work to require that the people who receive a full rebuild must have filled out the ACG survey and were thus providing feedback for the playtest?</p>
<p>The people who are willing to work with Paizo to test these new rules should not be punished due to potential changes being made to the character classes.</p>This post is intended for campaign staff (Mike Brock and John Compton).
As it stands, according to Additional Resources, once the playtest is over:
Quote:You will be forced to update your character—adjusting only the features that have changed, not rebuilding entirely—once the Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide is released.
Please reconsider this decision. This decision will make it much less likely that people will be willing to try out the new classes, and at the moment, the playtest...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-11-21T21:54:57ZForums: Advice: Summoned Creature casts an Antimagic FieldTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pw5p?Summoned-Creature-casts-an-Antimagic-Field#12013-06-25T20:39:30Z2013-06-25T20:16:57Z<p>The <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/angel/angel-movanic-deva" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Movanic Deva</a> can be summoned using Summon Monster VI if a caster has the Summon Good Monster feat from Champions of Purity. This creature can create an Antimagic Field 1/day.</p>
<p>Normally, AMF interacts with summoned creatures as follows:
<br />
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>Summoned creatures of any type wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. Time spent winked out counts normally against the duration of the conjuration that is maintaining the creature. If you cast antimagic field in an area occupied by a summoned creature that has spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the creature's spell resistance to make it wink out. (The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.)</blockquote><p>However, if the summoned creature itself (such as the mentioned Movanic Deva) casts the antimagic field, things get a bit weird. The field first appears as a 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on the Deva. The Deva then automatically beats its own Spell Resistance (as far as I can tell, you cannot choose to not automatically beat your own SR), and one of the following things happens...
<p>1) An infinite loop. The Deva winks out, which winks out the Antimagic Field, causing the Deva to wink back in, causing the Antimagic Field to wink back in, which causes the Deva to wink back out...etc.
<br />
2) The Deva winks out and cannot return, but the Antimagic Field remains in place where the Deva cast it.</p>
<p>What is the correct answer?</p>The Movanic Deva can be summoned using Summon Monster VI if a caster has the Summon Good Monster feat from Champions of Purity. This creature can create an Antimagic Field 1/day.
Normally, AMF interacts with summoned creatures as follows:
Quote:Summoned creatures of any type wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. Time spent winked out counts normally against the duration of the conjuration that is maintaining the creature. If you...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-06-25T20:16:57ZRe: Forums: Advice: Are there any evil nature deities/gods?Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pujv?Are-there-any-evil-nature-deitiesgods#62013-06-11T04:33:14Z2013-06-11T04:33:14Z<p>The Green Mother would fit quite well, if you want to take a Fey/First World bent.</p>The Green Mother would fit quite well, if you want to take a Fey/First World bent.Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-06-11T04:33:14ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: Spell Mastery for Witches, Magi, and Alchemists in PFSTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pt3i?Spell-Mastery-for-Witches-Magi-and-Alchemists#32013-05-29T20:05:29Z2013-05-29T20:05:29Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Jiggy wrote:</div><blockquote> I like the idea, but I shudder to imagine years of "Well PFS houseruled Spell Mastery to include classes that aren't written, so I see no reason they couldn't houserule X to do Y instead of what it actually does" showing up on the boards twice a week. </blockquote><p>In this case, it would be SKR giving the greenlight. :)
<p>And it's not like there aren't hundreds of posts asking for rules changes on the boards every week anyway...</p>Jiggy wrote:I like the idea, but I shudder to imagine years of "Well PFS houseruled Spell Mastery to include classes that aren't written, so I see no reason they couldn't houserule X to do Y instead of what it actually does" showing up on the boards twice a week.
In this case, it would be SKR giving the greenlight. :) And it's not like there aren't hundreds of posts asking for rules changes on the boards every week anyway...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-05-29T20:05:29ZForums: Pathfinder Society: Spell Mastery for Witches, Magi, and Alchemists in PFSTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pt3i?Spell-Mastery-for-Witches-Magi-and-Alchemists#12016-07-18T12:51:50Z2013-05-29T19:48:44Z<p>Recently, the design team clarified that the Spell Mastery feat in the Core Rulebook by RAW applies only to wizards, but could easily be expanded to apply to witches, magi, and alchemists.
<br />
<a href="http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2prhm?Spell-Mastery-needs-an-update-from-the-CRB#23" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Link</a></p>
<p>Sean K. Reynolds then went on to say that the only reason this feat could not be officially changed was because it would then have to reference classes that were not in the core rulebook:
<br />
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Sean K Reynolds wrote:</div><blockquote><p>We can't errata Spell Mastery in the Core Rulebook to mention three classes that aren't in the Core Rulebook, that'll just confuse people who only have the Core Rulebook.</p>
<p>We can give the green light for anyone to houserule it to affect those classes, and that sets a precedent for the PFS team to make that an official ruling for PFS play.</blockquote><p>In light of this, would it be possible to get a "PFS Houserule" allowing witches, magi, and alchemists to take the Spell Mastery feat (and therefore prepare a small number of spells without their familiar/spellbook/formula book)?Recently, the design team clarified that the Spell Mastery feat in the Core Rulebook by RAW applies only to wizards, but could easily be expanded to apply to witches, magi, and alchemists.
Link
Sean K. Reynolds then went on to say that the only reason this feat could not be officially changed was because it would then have to reference classes that were not in the core rulebook:
Sean K Reynolds wrote:We can't errata Spell Mastery in the Core Rulebook to mention three classes that aren't in...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-05-29T19:48:44ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Sneak attack with Acid Arrow spellTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ppy0?Sneak-attack-with-Acid-Arrow-spell#32013-04-30T19:23:26Z2013-04-30T19:23:26Z<p>The Fox is correct; sneak attack would happen on the initial hit but not on subsequent damage.</p>
<p>An off-topic heads up: you actually can't sneak attack with Alchemist's Fire due to the Throw Splash Weapon rules:
<br />
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>Splash weapons cannot deal precision-based damage (such as the damage from the rogue's sneak attack class feature).</blockquote><p><a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Throw-Splash-Weapon" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Link</a>The Fox is correct; sneak attack would happen on the initial hit but not on subsequent damage.
An off-topic heads up: you actually can't sneak attack with Alchemist's Fire due to the Throw Splash Weapon rules:
Quote:Splash weapons cannot deal precision-based damage (such as the damage from the rogue's sneak attack class feature).
LinkTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-30T19:23:26ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: Ask *James Jacobs* ALL your Questions Here!Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=625?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Questions-Here#312362013-04-29T06:59:19Z2013-04-29T06:59:19Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">mark kay wrote:</div><blockquote><p> James,</p>
<p>In Champions of Purity there's a magic item, the Devil's Key, which is basically a sword that.. I'll just quote the thing to avoid confusion</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote><p>The devil’s key is designed
</p>
to permanently slay evil outsiders by
<br />
bringing the fight to their plane of
<br />
origin so they can be killed outright.
<br />
Once per day as a swift action after a successful attack against
<br />
an evil outsider, the wielder can activate the sword to plane
<br />
shift the wielder and the target of the attack to the creature’s
<br />
home plane. The targeted outsider can resist this effect with
<br />
a successful DC 20 Will save. Once the target of this ability is
<br />
slain by the wielder, the sword activates another plane shift
<br />
as an immediate action that brings the wielder back to the
<br />
exact spot it previously left.</blockquote>I had thought though in Pathfinder there wasn't any more of that whole "you don't actually kill an evil outsider if you kill it anywhere besides its home plane" stuff? The sword seems to imply otherwise. </blockquote><p>I thought this item was neat, but I read it as designed to be a way to kill a "summoned" evil outsider. Basically, rather than beating a summoned creature simply sending the creature back to its home plane, you follow it there and kill it for real...mark kay wrote:James,
In Champions of Purity there's a magic item, the Devil's Key, which is basically a sword that.. I'll just quote the thing to avoid confusion
Quote:The devil’s key is designed
to permanently slay evil outsiders by
bringing the fight to their plane of
origin so they can be killed outright.
Once per day as a swift action after a successful attack against
an evil outsider, the wielder can activate the sword to plane
shift the wielder and the target of the attack to the...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-29T06:59:19ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Attack of Opportunity at Diagonal with ReachTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ppf2?Attack-of-Opportunity-at-Diagonal-with-Reach#162013-04-26T13:57:24Z2013-04-26T13:57:24Z<p>Highly recommend using the 3.5 exception. Otherwise, your polearm-using fighter is going to be unhappy when confronted with a 5-foot wide hallway at 45 degrees with respect to the grid...</p>
<p>While the "charging a large creature" part of SKR's statements make sense, the rules seem to break down when talking about reach weapons, as strictly, it seems the fighter can't reach into the adjacent diagonal OR the second diagonal. Have I missed anything correcting this issue?</p>Highly recommend using the 3.5 exception. Otherwise, your polearm-using fighter is going to be unhappy when confronted with a 5-foot wide hallway at 45 degrees with respect to the grid...
While the "charging a large creature" part of SKR's statements make sense, the rules seem to break down when talking about reach weapons, as strictly, it seems the fighter can't reach into the adjacent diagonal OR the second diagonal. Have I missed anything correcting this issue?Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-26T13:57:24ZForums: GM Discussion: 4-20 Words of the Ancients *Spoilers*Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ppe3?420-Words-of-the-Ancients-Spoilers#12013-04-25T23:08:52Z2013-04-25T23:08:52Z<p>Figured I would get this thread started.</p>
<p>I had a question about the "Conjuration among the Thousand Columns" section. Would these restrictions also apply to either:
<br />
1) Spell-like abilities such as a summoner's Summon Monster spell-like ability?
<br />
2) Supernatural abilities like a summoner's "Maker's Call" or eidolon itself?
<br />
I was thinking it would apply to the first, and not to the second, but I just wanted to get a clarification.</p>
<p>Second, I had a question about the briefing itself. Shiela seems to imply that the goal is to get the words to access Krune's domain; is her goal (or at least the goal she'll share with the PCs) to get inside his domain and kill him before he wakes?</p>
<p>Just FYI, here in San Diego we've been suspicious of Sheila since the beginning of the year...this scenario does not do anything to soothe our fears.</p>Figured I would get this thread started.
I had a question about the "Conjuration among the Thousand Columns" section. Would these restrictions also apply to either:
1) Spell-like abilities such as a summoner's Summon Monster spell-like ability?
2) Supernatural abilities like a summoner's "Maker's Call" or eidolon itself?
I was thinking it would apply to the first, and not to the second, but I just wanted to get a clarification.
Second, I had a question about the briefing itself. Shiela...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-25T23:08:52ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: In Defense of Faction MissionsTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pon5?In-Defense-of-Faction-Missions#232016-03-24T03:00:38Z2013-04-20T03:57:01Z<p>John, to be perfectly frank, I think this is a mistake. People LIKE being able to do something for their faction every time they play. Many character concepts don't work without it.</p>
<p>It sounds like we'll be working primarily for the Decemvirate, and only occasionally for various factions. How is a new player to get to know their faction without the constant interaction that "every scenario faction missions" provide?</p>
<p>This seems akin to simply removing the faction system from PFS, as in most missions, there will be little difference between an Andoran Pathfinder and a Chelaxian Pathfinder, especially among new players who haven't gotten to know their faction's goals.</p>
<p>If we are only interacting with our factions three to five times a year, they are soon going to be forgotten, and PFS is going to lose one of its unique benefits.</p>
<p>If the goal is to reduce PP earned, that is still very easily doable even if everyone receives a faction mission handout in every scenario. You could also even make the faction handouts in every scenario much less clear if you want to add some mystery. But I think that loss of the communication with a PC's faction leader is going to hurt the campaign.</p>John, to be perfectly frank, I think this is a mistake. People LIKE being able to do something for their faction every time they play. Many character concepts don't work without it.
It sounds like we'll be working primarily for the Decemvirate, and only occasionally for various factions. How is a new player to get to know their faction without the constant interaction that "every scenario faction missions" provide?
This seems akin to simply removing the faction system from PFS, as in most...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-20T03:57:01ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: Wealth in Season 5--Brainstorming ThreadTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pofh&page=15?Wealth-in-Season-5Brainstorming-Thread#7282013-04-19T22:39:36Z2013-04-19T22:39:36Z<p>I have to get off the forums at this point, but I just want to make a point.</p>
<p>1) The "Delayed Chronicle" system uses rules that already exist for playing pregenerated characters, does not mess with the XP per scenario or fame per scenario ruleset, and allows playing up for low-tier characters when necessary. It accomplishes MJM's goal of holding wealth by level to a certain value AND their goal of encouraging players to play within their own tier. However, it can be more complicated due to held chronicles and requires a consumable exception as stated by Jiggy.</p>
<p>2) The "2-vs-1/2" system is a simple method to adjudicate playing up that allows doubling of XP and gold if one plays up and halving of XP and gold if one plays down. It allows both playing up and playing down to make a table without penalty. However, it does not accomplish
<br />
MJM's goal of encouraging players to play within their own tier, as the tier of the game does not matter for character advancement. In order to encourage staying in tier, an adjustment to earned fame would be required.</p>
<p>In the end, I'd be ok with either of these systems over the podcast ruleset (though I prefer the delayed chronicle approach, perhaps because I come from a region with plenty of tables), but would still prefer the current ruleset over all three.</p>
<p>I think that the Delayed Chronicle approach has the most chance of being accepted by campaign staff.</p>
<p>I'm glad that we could have a civilized discussion about all of this.</p>I have to get off the forums at this point, but I just want to make a point.
1) The "Delayed Chronicle" system uses rules that already exist for playing pregenerated characters, does not mess with the XP per scenario or fame per scenario ruleset, and allows playing up for low-tier characters when necessary. It accomplishes MJM's goal of holding wealth by level to a certain value AND their goal of encouraging players to play within their own tier. However, it can be more complicated due to...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-19T22:39:36ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: Wealth in Season 5--Brainstorming ThreadTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pofh&page=15?Wealth-in-Season-5Brainstorming-Thread#7242013-04-19T22:30:36Z2013-04-19T22:30:36Z<p>Hayato Ken, that's a fair point. However, MJM obviously feel that some sort of enforcement mechanism on playing up or down needs to be codified into the rules; otherwise, we would not have had the Podcast ruleset. If you had to choose between the 2-vs-1/2 system you proposed with the "GM discretion/table composition" clause, and simply the current ruleset for tiers with not change, which would you prefer? What is to stop certain GMs and players from breaking either system? At this point, it is clear that MJM feel that some sort of hard rules change is necessary.</p>
<p>SCPRedMage, do you have an answer to how to fix the imbalances in the 2-vs-1/2 system (such as incentive to always play down) without greatly complicating the fame system?</p>Hayato Ken, that's a fair point. However, MJM obviously feel that some sort of enforcement mechanism on playing up or down needs to be codified into the rules; otherwise, we would not have had the Podcast ruleset. If you had to choose between the 2-vs-1/2 system you proposed with the "GM discretion/table composition" clause, and simply the current ruleset for tiers with not change, which would you prefer? What is to stop certain GMs and players from breaking either system? At this point, it...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-19T22:30:36ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: Wealth in Season 5--Brainstorming ThreadTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pofh&page=15?Wealth-in-Season-5Brainstorming-Thread#7162013-04-19T22:16:34Z2013-04-19T22:16:34Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Merkatz wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Tristan, I am comparing the proposal to the podcast change. </p>
<p>You say "extra reward," but that's an illusion. If I have to pay for a res, I am still out that cost. Delayed Credit just means I lose that money at 7th lvl instead of 4th... All because I took extra risk for the team, and I got no advantage for my troubles. </blockquote><p>Merkatz, the podcast alternative is that your character would be permanently dead at level 4 instead.
<p>I agree with you to be honest; I think the current system is fine. But since the campaign staff has stated that the rules ARE going to change to meet their goals, we should be trying to find a compromise.</p>Merkatz wrote:Tristan, I am comparing the proposal to the podcast change.
You say "extra reward," but that's an illusion. If I have to pay for a res, I am still out that cost. Delayed Credit just means I lose that money at 7th lvl instead of 4th... All because I took extra risk for the team, and I got no advantage for my troubles.
Merkatz, the podcast alternative is that your character would be permanently dead at level 4 instead. I agree with you to be honest; I think the current system is...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-19T22:16:34ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: Wealth in Season 5--Brainstorming ThreadTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pofh&page=15?Wealth-in-Season-5Brainstorming-Thread#7142013-04-19T22:14:20Z2013-04-19T22:14:20Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Hayato Ken wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Tristan Windseeker wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Hayato and SCPRedMage, what is your alternate solution to the issue?</p>
<p>If we cannot come up with another solution, we are going to be stuck with the podcast rules. The developers (earlier in this thread) did not like changing the amount of XP that each scenario gave a player.</p>
<p>SCPRedMage, you are correct that delayed chronicles keeps wealth the same as the podcast system. In fact, that's the point; MJM want to limit wealth to this level. However, there is one key difference; because the chronicle sheet for the 4-5 game played at 1-2 does not apply yet (including consumable expenditure, condition removal, etc), a player who dies or contracts a condition that is not curable with 1-2 wealth in a 4-5 game is not dead. They would be able to use the 4-5 gp to recover from conditions. </blockquote>My solution is the 2xp/1/2xp solution that i described several times, which takes clearly care of what i critized. You can read upthread what i said. </blockquote><p>Hayato Ken, do you have a response to my post about the 1/2 system incentivizing playing down?
<p>The issue is that MJM want to create a system where playing in-tier is the most encouraged option. The 2-or-1/2 system does not seem to accomplish this goal.</p>
<p>Rogue Eidolon suggested a change to the fame rules; this is one possible solution to make 2-vs-1/2 work, but some quick math would be required to balance the system.</p>Hayato Ken wrote:Tristan Windseeker wrote:Hayato and SCPRedMage, what is your alternate solution to the issue?
If we cannot come up with another solution, we are going to be stuck with the podcast rules. The developers (earlier in this thread) did not like changing the amount of XP that each scenario gave a player.
SCPRedMage, you are correct that delayed chronicles keeps wealth the same as the podcast system. In fact, that's the point; MJM want to limit wealth to this level. However, there...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-19T22:14:20ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: Wealth in Season 5--Brainstorming ThreadTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pofh&page=15?Wealth-in-Season-5Brainstorming-Thread#7132013-04-19T22:12:22Z2013-04-19T22:12:22Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Merkatz wrote:</div><blockquote>Then the only way I would play up is if I am "bullied" into doing so. And we a wanted to avoid that, remember? </blockquote><p>The issue is that with the podcast system, you get nothing if you play up. The podcast system does nothing to stop bullying aside from remove the potential "carrot" of high-tier gold and leave the "stick" of the other players.
<p>With delayed credit, at least you are getting higher tier gold later down the line, and with the consumable exception, the direct risk to you is mitigated somewhat.</p>
<p>Like I have said before in this thread, I do not think that the current tiering system needs to change at all. However, because campaign staff wants to make a change, I have attempted to come up with a good compromise.</p>Merkatz wrote:Then the only way I would play up is if I am "bullied" into doing so. And we a wanted to avoid that, remember?
The issue is that with the podcast system, you get nothing if you play up. The podcast system does nothing to stop bullying aside from remove the potential "carrot" of high-tier gold and leave the "stick" of the other players. With delayed credit, at least you are getting higher tier gold later down the line, and with the consumable exception, the direct risk to you is...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-19T22:12:22ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: In Defense of Faction MissionsTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pon5?In-Defense-of-Faction-Missions#112013-04-19T22:07:58Z2013-04-19T22:07:58Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">CRobledo wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Tristan Windseeker wrote:</div><blockquote> CRobledo, the issue is that while you are now experienced and bored with faction missions, we want to have something like faction missions to help grow the community. You even admitted that they were cool for you when you were a newbie; why not give incoming newbies something cool too to get them into the community and help them learn about the world? </blockquote>MJM have said we will still have faction missions and handouts, just once in a while instead of every scenario. I think this fact alone will make those times when you DO get a faction mission even more special. </blockquote><p>Do you have a link? From what I recall, they mentioned in the podcasts that faction briefings would be email-based and simply deal with the campaign as a whole, that missions would be secret, and that old faction missions would not need to be handed out any more in Seasons 0-4 (as they would not be important).
<p>I think that having a faction mission is a handy tool for new players, as it gives them the ability to roleplay their incentive without having to read the entire Inner Sea World Guide first...</p>CRobledo wrote:Tristan Windseeker wrote: CRobledo, the issue is that while you are now experienced and bored with faction missions, we want to have something like faction missions to help grow the community. You even admitted that they were cool for you when you were a newbie; why not give incoming newbies something cool too to get them into the community and help them learn about the world?
MJM have said we will still have faction missions and handouts, just once in a while instead of every...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-19T22:07:58ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: Wealth in Season 5--Brainstorming ThreadTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pofh&page=15?Wealth-in-Season-5Brainstorming-Thread#7082013-04-19T22:05:11Z2013-04-19T22:05:11Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Merkatz wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I'm still seeing 0 incentive in wanting to play up, even with the Delayed Credit option in play. I'm still taking an increased risk and I'm stil probably spending more money to play up, but still get no extra gold to compensate. Delayed Credit does nothing to change that (it just means pushing off losses to another date. </p>
<p>Your two playing up "options" just look like this to me: Play up and risk your PC to take a wealth hit (A) now or (B) later. </blockquote><p>Merkatz, the difference is that with the podcast system, you would take high risk and not get any extra reward at all. A character death or a high consumable expenditure would have to come out of the 1-2 gold pieces.
<p>With delayed credit (please see Jiggy's post for a summary), you at least can use high-tier gold to clear your conditions and get your consumables replenished. Your WBL ends up being the same as the value the developers would like, but you are not punished if you die when playing up to make a table.</p>
<p>Remember that when comparing proposed solutions, we need to be comparing them to the Podcast ruleset, not the current ruleset. If we do not propose a better solution, we will be getting the Podcast ruleset.</p>Merkatz wrote:I'm still seeing 0 incentive in wanting to play up, even with the Delayed Credit option in play. I'm still taking an increased risk and I'm stil probably spending more money to play up, but still get no extra gold to compensate. Delayed Credit does nothing to change that (it just means pushing off losses to another date.
Your two playing up "options" just look like this to me: Play up and risk your PC to take a wealth hit (A) now or (B) later.
Merkatz, the difference is that...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-19T22:05:11ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: Wealth in Season 5--Brainstorming ThreadTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pofh&page=15?Wealth-in-Season-5Brainstorming-Thread#7042013-04-19T22:00:20Z2013-04-19T22:00:20Z<p>Hayato and SCPRedMage, what is your alternate solution to the issue?</p>
<p>If we cannot come up with another solution, we are going to be stuck with the podcast rules. The developers (earlier in this thread) did not like changing the amount of XP that each scenario gave a player.</p>
<p>SCPRedMage, you are correct that delayed chronicles keeps wealth the same as the podcast system. In fact, that's the point; MJM want to limit wealth to this level. However, there is one key difference; because the chronicle sheet for the 4-5 game played at 1-2 does not apply yet (including consumable expenditure, condition removal, etc), a player who dies or contracts a condition that is not curable with 1-2 wealth in a 4-5 game is not dead. They would be able to use the 4-5 gp to recover from conditions.</p>Hayato and SCPRedMage, what is your alternate solution to the issue?
If we cannot come up with another solution, we are going to be stuck with the podcast rules. The developers (earlier in this thread) did not like changing the amount of XP that each scenario gave a player.
SCPRedMage, you are correct that delayed chronicles keeps wealth the same as the podcast system. In fact, that's the point; MJM want to limit wealth to this level. However, there is one key difference; because the...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-19T22:00:20ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: In Defense of Faction MissionsTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pon5?In-Defense-of-Faction-Missions#92013-04-19T21:53:32Z2013-04-19T21:53:32Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">MrSin wrote:</div><blockquote><p>To expand upon this, what are the new plans for PP?</p>
<p>So... The mechanical identity of my faction is mostly scrapped to me and I'm now only a member of the society. Great... Why axe factions to begin with if they are going to matter less? Its also a bit of a sting that I'm going to work for other factions more often, when I am not actually interested in all of them. </blockquote><p>The new plan for PP is that you will get one PP for completing the main mission, and an extra PP if you complete a "secret goal" that is not told to you during the mission briefing. There will only be one "secret goal" per mission.
<p>This will create a problem for new players, I think, as they may not be well-versed enough in gaming tropes or the Society in general to find the secret missions. And how will they learn without being able to observe how the Society directly operates (such as through Faction Mission handouts)?</p>
<p>MrSin, I completely agree. Other organized play campaigns in the past have run into issues with "my character wouldn't be doing this mission at all"; the faction missions allowed a way around this issue. And with the proposed system, your faction would only be involved in approximately 3-6 scenarios per year...</p>
<p>I'm in favor of keeping the old faction mission system. Why not simply have fewer faction missions per scenario, and have some factions working together in each? For example, Andoran+Silver Crusade (freeing slaves and bringing justice) or Andoran+Cheliax (slaying some demons) or Taldor+Sczarni (smuggle some goods into Qadira).</p>MrSin wrote:To expand upon this, what are the new plans for PP?
So... The mechanical identity of my faction is mostly scrapped to me and I'm now only a member of the society. Great... Why axe factions to begin with if they are going to matter less? Its also a bit of a sting that I'm going to work for other factions more often, when I am not actually interested in all of them.
The new plan for PP is that you will get one PP for completing the main mission, and an extra PP if you complete a...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-19T21:53:32ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: Wealth in Season 5--Brainstorming ThreadTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pofh&page=14?Wealth-in-Season-5Brainstorming-Thread#6962013-04-19T21:48:10Z2013-04-19T21:48:10Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Hayato Ken wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Tristan Windseeker wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
Whereas a 2x-or-1/2x system would create:
<br />
1) Play up; everyone gets high-tier gold, and level 2s get double XP.
<br />
2) Play down; everyone gets low-tier gold, and the level 4s get 1/2 XP.</p>
<p>What is the incentive to not play down in the 2x-or-1/2x system? </blockquote><p>No No, play down would be the high tier award/2, which means half of everything you would get for your tier normaly.
<p>Of course it´s easier for the higher chars and therefore for the whole group. There is always gonna be a compromise one way or the other. </blockquote><p>So as it is stated currently, playing down would simply be equivalent to going slow-track, and not carry any penalty in the 2x-or-1/2x system?
<p>This seems to allow the potential for abuse, as a character could simply play on "easy mode" throughout their career by always playing down without any penalties...it creates the exact situation MJM want to avoid, which is characters with too much wealth having no problems in scenarios.</p>Hayato Ken wrote:Tristan Windseeker wrote:
Whereas a 2x-or-1/2x system would create:
1) Play up; everyone gets high-tier gold, and level 2s get double XP.
2) Play down; everyone gets low-tier gold, and the level 4s get 1/2 XP.What is the incentive to not play down in the 2x-or-1/2x system?
No No, play down would be the high tier award/2, which means half of everything you would get for your tier normaly. Of course it´s easier for the higher chars and therefore for the whole group. There is...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-19T21:48:10ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: Wealth in Season 5--Brainstorming ThreadTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pofh&page=14?Wealth-in-Season-5Brainstorming-Thread#6942013-04-19T21:45:24Z2013-04-19T21:45:24Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Jiggy wrote:</div><blockquote><p> There seems to be a lot of confusion over the finer details of the Delayed Credit model (and some back and forth on what those details should even be), so here's a (hopefully) clear and thorough synopsis of the Delayed Credit idea as I see it.</p>
<p>•• spoiler omitted ••... </blockquote><p>Well stated, Jiggy. While this system is not perfect, I think it is the best out of the proposed systems so far because it does not break the 1 xp per scenario expectation, making it more palatable to campaign staff. It also does not encourage playing down and tries to allow playing up without creating WBL issues.Jiggy wrote:There seems to be a lot of confusion over the finer details of the Delayed Credit model (and some back and forth on what those details should even be), so here's a (hopefully) clear and thorough synopsis of the Delayed Credit idea as I see it.
** spoiler omitted **...
Well stated, Jiggy. While this system is not perfect, I think it is the best out of the proposed systems so far because it does not break the 1 xp per scenario expectation, making it more palatable to campaign...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-19T21:45:24ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: In Defense of Faction MissionsTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pon5?In-Defense-of-Faction-Missions#72013-04-19T21:41:58Z2013-04-19T21:41:58Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">CRobledo wrote:</div><blockquote> If it is any of the first ones, I am all for the axing of faction missions as we know them now. They were cool as a newbie, yes, but I grew very tired of them after a while.</blockquote><p>CRobledo, the issue is that while you are now experienced and bored with faction missions, we want to have something like faction missions to help grow the community. You even admitted that they were cool for you when you were a newbie; why not give incoming newbies something cool too to get them into the community and help them learn about the world?CRobledo wrote:If it is any of the first ones, I am all for the axing of faction missions as we know them now. They were cool as a newbie, yes, but I grew very tired of them after a while.
CRobledo, the issue is that while you are now experienced and bored with faction missions, we want to have something like faction missions to help grow the community. You even admitted that they were cool for you when you were a newbie; why not give incoming newbies something cool too to get them into the...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-19T21:41:58ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: Wealth in Season 5--Brainstorming ThreadTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pofh&page=14?Wealth-in-Season-5Brainstorming-Thread#6902013-04-19T21:37:53Z2013-04-19T21:37:53Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Joe M. wrote:</div><blockquote> I just want a system that doesn't penalize being a team player, playing up or playing down as an in-the-middle table thinks best. I think 2x-or-1/2X manages that. I'm not yet persuaded that delayed-credit handles the 2-2-3-4-4 well.</blockquote><p>The goal of this rules change is to encourage playing in tier. A split table has to make a choice one way or the other; with a 1/2x system in place, it seems that the table would have a high incentive to play down (rather than the choice being balanced).
<p>I don't have an issue with 2x (though I prefer a system that keeps 1 XP per scenario), but how do you suggest dealing with the issues that 1/2x introduces in terms of incentive to play down?</p>
<p>The new rules system proposed by the blog creates the system:
<br />
1) Play up; the level 2s get low-tier gold, everyone else gets high-tier gold.
<br />
2) Play down; everyone gets low tier gold.</p>
<p>In the end, while delayed credit is not perfect, it would give the table two options:
<br />
1) Play up; the level 2s can either take low-tier gold or take high-tier gold with a delay
<br />
2) Play down; everyone gets low tier gold.</p>
<p>Whereas a 2x-or-1/2x system would create:
<br />
1) Play up; everyone gets high-tier gold, and level 2s get double XP.
<br />
2) Play down; everyone gets low-tier gold, and the level 4s get 1/2 XP.</p>
<p>What is the incentive to not play down in the 2x-or-1/2x system?</p>Joe M. wrote:I just want a system that doesn't penalize being a team player, playing up or playing down as an in-the-middle table thinks best. I think 2x-or-1/2X manages that. I'm not yet persuaded that delayed-credit handles the 2-2-3-4-4 well.
The goal of this rules change is to encourage playing in tier. A split table has to make a choice one way or the other; with a 1/2x system in place, it seems that the table would have a high incentive to play down (rather than the choice being...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-19T21:37:53ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: In Defense of Faction MissionsTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pon5?In-Defense-of-Faction-Missions#32013-04-21T08:17:36Z2013-04-19T21:30:07Z<p>Hear hear! Save the faction missions!</p>
<p>I think having only one "second PP" condition in each scenario, and on top of that keeping it a secret, will have a detrimental effect on the campaign. Each faction should make an appearance in each scenario, even if only through a short letter handed to the players. This will definitely help new players get accustomed to Pathfinder Society, and help to keep them more invested in why their character is a member of the Society.</p>
<p>John Compton, during the podcast, talked about how he dislikes players asking if they saw "one of these" and holding up their faction sheet, and how he dislikes that faction missions often have obvious goals. I actually don't have a problem with this. I think that it helps create a good bridge for new players into the campaign by giving them clearly defined goals and setting their expectations for how their faction operates. In my opinion, it actually adds to the role-play opportunity.</p>
<p>Perhaps a better solution than throwing out the faction mission system completely would be to have fewer and more complicated faction missions per scenario in general, but to have more inter-faction alliances happening?</p>Hear hear! Save the faction missions!
I think having only one "second PP" condition in each scenario, and on top of that keeping it a secret, will have a detrimental effect on the campaign. Each faction should make an appearance in each scenario, even if only through a short letter handed to the players. This will definitely help new players get accustomed to Pathfinder Society, and help to keep them more invested in why their character is a member of the Society.
John Compton, during the...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-19T21:30:07ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: 4-18 Veteran's Vault (Spoilers)Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pmct?418-Veterans-Vault#292013-04-19T21:22:30Z2013-04-19T21:22:30Z<p>Any comment on the Globster's stat block being incorrect? This appears to be an error in Bestiary 3, but I am not sure if the error is the Strength score or the rest of the stat block...</p>Any comment on the Globster's stat block being incorrect? This appears to be an error in Bestiary 3, but I am not sure if the error is the Strength score or the rest of the stat block...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-19T21:22:30ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: Wealth in Season 5--Brainstorming ThreadTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pofh&page=14?Wealth-in-Season-5Brainstorming-Thread#6842013-04-19T21:19:51Z2013-04-19T21:19:51Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Joe M. wrote:</div><blockquote><p>But under the current system, the wealth loss will probably be balanced out by playing up a few times here and there. Same problem as the podcast proposal.</p>
<p>So in the 2-2-3-4-4 case, the 4s will have a very strong reason (permanent mechanical loss for their character) not to play down.</p>
<p>Whatever the delayed-credit does for playing up, does it address playing down? No. So the 2X-or-1/2X proposal is a bit more flexible in this situation.</p>
<p>Or does the delayed-credit do better with playing down than I've thought? </blockquote><p>You are right; delayed credit doesn't handle playing down very well. This issue is the same in both the current system, the podcast proposal, and the 2X system; for high level players, playing down incurs penalties.
<p>However, the 1/2X proposal would lead to no mechanical disadvantage at all for playing down; it would effectively mean that a high-tier player could play down every scenario, and have no challenge while still leveling and getting the same WBL as if they were playing slow track. It seems to create a problem in the other direction.</p>Joe M. wrote:But under the current system, the wealth loss will probably be balanced out by playing up a few times here and there. Same problem as the podcast proposal.
So in the 2-2-3-4-4 case, the 4s will have a very strong reason (permanent mechanical loss for their character) not to play down.
Whatever the delayed-credit does for playing up, does it address playing down? No. So the 2X-or-1/2X proposal is a bit more flexible in this situation.
Or does the delayed-credit do better with...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-19T21:19:51ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: Wealth in Season 5--Brainstorming ThreadTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pofh&page=14?Wealth-in-Season-5Brainstorming-Thread#6812013-04-19T21:15:51Z2013-04-19T21:15:51Z<p>SCPRedMage, even though I was one of the people who proposed the delayed credit system, to be honest, I think the tiering system is fine as it is. I haven't seen any abuse of playing up at tables I've run or events I've been to. I would be perfectly happy leaving the system as it is.</p>
<p>But, since the rules are being changed to what was proposed in the podcast, I am hoping that the Delayed Credit (or Double XP, or Out-of-Tier rewards) systems will at least allow players to not be heavily punished for playing up.</p>SCPRedMage, even though I was one of the people who proposed the delayed credit system, to be honest, I think the tiering system is fine as it is. I haven't seen any abuse of playing up at tables I've run or events I've been to. I would be perfectly happy leaving the system as it is.
But, since the rules are being changed to what was proposed in the podcast, I am hoping that the Delayed Credit (or Double XP, or Out-of-Tier rewards) systems will at least allow players to not be heavily...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-19T21:15:51ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: Wealth in Season 5--Brainstorming ThreadTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pofh&page=14?Wealth-in-Season-5Brainstorming-Thread#6772013-04-19T21:09:19Z2013-04-19T21:09:19Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Rogue Eidolon wrote:</div><blockquote>Yeah, I think delayed credit, with the consumable clause, is a good option for those who can take it. But foisting the Podcast Proposal on people who for some reason cannot choose this option is not good. I'm thinking we can use the delayed credit idea for sure—I really do like it; we just need a better option 2 than the Podcast Proposal. </blockquote><p>I agree with you, Rogue Eidolon. If we can find a better backup plan for small regions that allows delayed credit to not result in someone being unable to level up at all without taking the Podcast option, I would be in favor of it.
<p>I don't really like the 2XP solution though, both because of the fame issues and because it breaks the "three scenarios or one module per level" rule. While people have discussed this rule, I think that for a compromise to be acceptable to campaign staff, we need to leave the core of the game as close as possible to what it is now.</p>
<p>So far, it sounds like most people would be willing to accept either 2XP or Delayed Credit if the option was the podcast solution, with individual preferences between the two systems being different. Am I correct in this?</p>Rogue Eidolon wrote:Yeah, I think delayed credit, with the consumable clause, is a good option for those who can take it. But foisting the Podcast Proposal on people who for some reason cannot choose this option is not good. I'm thinking we can use the delayed credit idea for sure--I really do like it; we just need a better option 2 than the Podcast Proposal.
I agree with you, Rogue Eidolon. If we can find a better backup plan for small regions that allows delayed credit to not result in...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-19T21:09:19ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: Wealth in Season 5--Brainstorming ThreadTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pofh&page=14?Wealth-in-Season-5Brainstorming-Thread#6742013-04-19T21:05:34Z2013-04-19T21:05:34Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Merkatz wrote:</div><blockquote> I don't understand the support for the "Delayed Reward" proposal... </blockquote><p>Merkatz, I understand your concerns. Unfortunately, campaign staff feels that a change must be made to the rules in order to stop character wealth from getting too high due to repeated playing up. Because of this, they proposed forcing low-tier characters to always take low-tier gold, no matter what tier they played at.
<p>The "Delayed Reward" system is an attempt to find a compromise between the campaign staff solution and a solution that allows players to play their own characters and receive the high-tier rewards. Under this proposal, a player would always be free to take low-tier rewards if they played up (which is what was chosen as the only option by the podcast). Alternatively, a player could hold credit from the adventure until they reached the correct level. The Delayed Reward system allows players to not lose out on any rewards they feel they earned by playing up.</p>
<p>If I understand what we were suggesting correctly, conditions gained/consumables used/etc would be taken care of once the delayed chronicle was applied, and not beforehand. Basically, if you used a Potion of Darkvision in a scenario in which you played up and wanted to replenish it, you would do so on the Delayed Credit chronicle itself. This would make the delayed credit not unbalanced for low-tier players playing up.</p>
<p>The specifics are of course up to campaign staff; I was simply hoping that we could find a compromise that meets campaign staff goals without punishing players or organizers.</p>Merkatz wrote:I don't understand the support for the "Delayed Reward" proposal...
Merkatz, I understand your concerns. Unfortunately, campaign staff feels that a change must be made to the rules in order to stop character wealth from getting too high due to repeated playing up. Because of this, they proposed forcing low-tier characters to always take low-tier gold, no matter what tier they played at. The "Delayed Reward" system is an attempt to find a compromise between the campaign staff...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-19T21:05:34ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: Wealth in Season 5--Brainstorming ThreadTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pofh&page=14?Wealth-in-Season-5Brainstorming-Thread#6642013-04-19T20:54:28Z2013-04-19T20:54:28Z<p>Rogue Eidolon, I see your point about holding credit not working for cases where a brand new player is joining a group of level 4s or 5s. Ideally, the holding credit solution assumes that these events are rare, and that it is not a common occurrence for a level 1 to be playing all the time with a group of level 5s. Then again, the whole issue of playing up and down is less of a problem at tier 1-5, as in this case and this case alone, the higher-tier players always have the option of playing a "brand new" character. Additionally, many times (though this depends on region), there are multiple new players that can be grouped together, further mitigating the issue. The issue to me seems to be most prominent at tiers 3-7, 5-9, and 7-11.</p>
<p>To be honest, it seems like:
<br />
1) For regions with low player and table count, where playing up is common to make tables, double XP is the best solution.
<br />
2) For regions with high player and table count, where playing up is generally rare, delayed credit is the best solution.</p>
<p>Honestly, I'd be ok with either delaying credit (the system I prefer) or double XP, as both are much better than the blog post/podcast suggestion.</p>Rogue Eidolon, I see your point about holding credit not working for cases where a brand new player is joining a group of level 4s or 5s. Ideally, the holding credit solution assumes that these events are rare, and that it is not a common occurrence for a level 1 to be playing all the time with a group of level 5s. Then again, the whole issue of playing up and down is less of a problem at tier 1-5, as in this case and this case alone, the higher-tier players always have the option of playing...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-19T20:54:28ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: Wealth in Season 5--Brainstorming ThreadTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pofh&page=14?Wealth-in-Season-5Brainstorming-Thread#6612013-04-19T20:46:24Z2013-04-19T20:46:24Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Robert Matthews 166 wrote:</div><blockquote>That table is APL 3 which could play either way. If they play up the ones that are level 4 apply their chronicle sheet immediately. The level 3 can choose the tier1-2 reward immediately or hold the chronicle until he reaches tier 4-5. The same is true of the level 2s. If they play down everyone gets the 1-2 reward. </blockquote><p>Actually, the way the rules are now (even with the MJM solution or with the delayed credit solution), the level 3s would get immediate high-tier credit, as would the level 4s. The level 2s would choose to either take immediate low tier credit or to delay credit til level 4.Robert Matthews 166 wrote:That table is APL 3 which could play either way. If they play up the ones that are level 4 apply their chronicle sheet immediately. The level 3 can choose the tier1-2 reward immediately or hold the chronicle until he reaches tier 4-5. The same is true of the level 2s. If they play down everyone gets the 1-2 reward.
Actually, the way the rules are now (even with the MJM solution or with the delayed credit solution), the level 3s would get immediate high-tier credit,...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-19T20:46:24ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: Wealth in Season 5--Brainstorming ThreadTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pofh&page=13?Wealth-in-Season-5Brainstorming-Thread#6432013-04-19T20:00:48Z2013-04-19T19:55:52Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">SCPRedMage wrote:</div><blockquote>On the topic of holding the chronicle, I'm NOT a fan. I absolutely HATE the idea of having to wait to apply the credit for my adventures, which is a major reason why I avoid playing higher level pregens like the plague.</blockquote><p>SCPRedMage, I understand your concerns. However, without an alternate solution, the rules are changing to be that playing up is "all risk, no reward." Delayed credit allows choosing a separate option, which is "all risk, delayed reward." Players still get their extra gold, boons, and item access without going beyond expected WBL.
<p>The other proposed solutions in this thread make organizing an event much more difficult, as now the organizer has to micromanage tables and turn away many walk-ins. Delayed credit is the best solution proposed so far IMO, though I am of course open to other ideas.</p>
<p>While the double experience idea is also acceptable to me, I would much prefer the simplicity of using the system that is already in place and used by GMs and people playing pregens.</p>SCPRedMage wrote:On the topic of holding the chronicle, I'm NOT a fan. I absolutely HATE the idea of having to wait to apply the credit for my adventures, which is a major reason why I avoid playing higher level pregens like the plague.
SCPRedMage, I understand your concerns. However, without an alternate solution, the rules are changing to be that playing up is "all risk, no reward." Delayed credit allows choosing a separate option, which is "all risk, delayed reward." Players still get...Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-19T19:55:52ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: Wealth in Season 5--Brainstorming ThreadTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pofh&page=13?Wealth-in-Season-5Brainstorming-Thread#6372013-04-19T19:18:05Z2013-04-19T19:18:05Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Jiggy wrote:</div><blockquote> For the delayed credit idea, you could probably go either way on the whole "activate the held credits at the in-between level or at the first level of the subtier" issue, and it wouldn't be a <i>huge</i> deal. </blockquote><p>Yeah, I'm also ok with either holding til the first level of the high tier or the level right before. This would be up to campaign staff.Jiggy wrote:For the delayed credit idea, you could probably go either way on the whole "activate the held credits at the in-between level or at the first level of the subtier" issue, and it wouldn't be a huge deal.
Yeah, I'm also ok with either holding til the first level of the high tier or the level right before. This would be up to campaign staff.Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-19T19:18:05ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: Wealth in Season 5--Brainstorming ThreadTristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pofh&page=13?Wealth-in-Season-5Brainstorming-Thread#6332013-04-19T19:07:07Z2013-04-19T19:07:07Z<p>My suggestion to address the concerns with the "delayed credit" method would be:</p>
<p>1) A player can choose to take low-tier gold, allowing them to get their chronicle and apply it right away.</p>
<p>2) A level 3 would be able to take high tier gold (since they are able to both now and under the MJM system proposed in the blog). A 1-2 playing at 4-5 would therefore get their high-tier credit at level 3.</p>My suggestion to address the concerns with the "delayed credit" method would be:
1) A player can choose to take low-tier gold, allowing them to get their chronicle and apply it right away.
2) A level 3 would be able to take high tier gold (since they are able to both now and under the MJM system proposed in the blog). A 1-2 playing at 4-5 would therefore get their high-tier credit at level 3.Tristan Windseeker (alias of Athurva Gore)2013-04-19T19:07:07Z