My PCs started the Kopru Ruins last weekend and I was not amused by their behavior. They split up and had one PC (a very fast one) attempting to bring the monsters to the waiting party outside on the beach. They did similarly inside the ruins. I used all the tactics I could; even the traps did not stop the speedy scouter. They basically took out all the hillfolk, rogues and Triel. With nary a PC death. I beefed up Triel's HPs and she did take the party barbarian down to where without raging he'd have been under. Still the player's and character's attitude were simply flippant about the whole thing.
They have not gone to the halfling sorcerer's part or the huecuva's part of the dungeon yet.
So I decided to take the advice from Dungeonscape to heart; I'm optimizing all the monsters just for taking on the party, replacing feats and advancing HD where I want to. After all, the pcs are all powergamers who optimize their characters, so why not the monsters? Most of the PCs are at 6th level anyway (a rogue, paladin, and cleric/wizard with a 4th level barbarian and cleric) so they're overpowered. I'll be leaving the XP rewards the same though. I'm changing the sorcerer and huecuva too, picking feats and spells for maximum effectiveness. I have to figure out a strategy for reinvorcements as well. Triel is gone, so who does what now...
So is this what a good DM does when the party isn't taking the dungeon seriously enough?
P.S. I'm rigging more traps too. The cage for transporting the characters across the cavern? They successfully learned the operating limits of the cage, but there will be a little surprise next time. Namely... that rope/cable will already be half cut when they get in the cage next time. Can you say "Geronimo"?
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I know there are a couple alternative versions of Tarkalar (sp?) on the boards from way back. They were posted by Glassjaw and Chairbourneranger. Glassjaw made a habit of retooling or optimizing monster builds for SCAP. Not sure if he did much past Zenith Trajector though. Chairbourne changed the type of undead but was a bit irked when the party cleric and I (paladin) looked at each other and said the new type at the same time. I dug up the link to the thread that had most of this http://paizo.com/dungeon/messageboards/shackledCity/archives/floodSeasonThe EbonTriadATweakHereAndATweakThere.
Good luck :)
I know there are a couple alternative versions of Tarkalar (sp?) on the boards from way back. They were posted by Glassjaw and Chairbourneranger. Glassjaw made a habit of retooling or optimizing monster builds for SCAP. Not sure if he did much past Zenith Trajector though. Chairbourne changed the type of undead but was a bit irked when the party cleric and I (paladin) looked at each other and said the new type at the same time. I dug up the link to the thread that had most of this http://paizo.com/dungeon/messageboards/shackledCity/archives/floodSeasonThe EbonTriadATweakHereAndATweakThere.
Good luck :)
Thanks, but for some reason I can't seen to access any messageboard archives, link or no. ;(
Sorry, I didn't actually make that a link in my post. Should just be able to copy the url and paste it into the address box on your browser. *scratches head*
Thanks, but for some reason I can't seen to access any messageboard archives, link or no. ;(
It doesn't work for me. It just brings me back to the main Shackled City Adventure Path board.
When you say you're going to keep the XP awards the same, are the monster's CR's going to remain the same, too? If you're adding HD and levels, it seems the party should be getting more experience.
Also, just because a PC runs into a room and yells "Boo!" doesn't mean a whole room full of rogues and experienced adventurers should go running off after him like the end scene of a Benny Hill episode. If the bad guys have set up a kill zone, they wait for the PC's to walk into it. They've been there for years... they can wait a few more hours.
Creative Director
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One thing to keep in mind... if the players are having fun picking on the poor hillfolk and alleybashers, then the hillfolk and alleybashers are doing their jobs. They're actually supposed to be mooks; simple combatants that the PCs can plow through in large numbers, so that they can feel like they're gaining in power and actually are being stronger. If every battle is an edge of the seat/we're all going to die type thing, then every battle makes the players feel like they're always scrambling to catch up. Worse... they might start to wonder what's the point of getting higher level if you never get to FELL high level?
There's plenty of battles in Shackled City that'll push your PCs to the edge of a TPK. It's okay to have them dominate parts of the campaign once in a while.
Now, that said... if the PCs leave to rest or whatever and give the Kopru Ruins surviviors a chance to react, then I'd absolutely suggest having them rebuild new traps and set things up to be anti-PC.
When you say you're going to keep the XP awards the same, are the monster's CR's going to remain the same, too? If you're adding HD and levels, it seems the party should be getting more experience.
Also, just because a PC runs into a room and yells "Boo!" doesn't mean a whole room full of rogues and experienced adventurers should go running off after him like the end scene of a Benny Hill episode. If the bad guys have set up a kill zone, they wait for the PC's to walk into it. They've been there for years... they can wait a few more hours.
Correct! That is not how the baddies reacted. Some followed and some raised the alarm. When the main battle with Triel happened, I had her gather almost all the remaining guards and go out to meet the PCs, "welcoming them" to her stronghold.
As far as XP, for the most part I advanced the baddies up until CR would change, plus optimized feats and such. I don't want the pcs staying ahead of the level curve for each of the chapters.
Now, that said... if the PCs leave to rest or whatever and give the Kopru Ruins surviviors a chance to react, then I'd absolutely suggest having them rebuild new traps and set things up to be anti-PC.
They indeed did just that! What our group usually does is agree that at the end of each session ( we run Saturday from 5:30PM to about 2AM) we have the pcs return "home" if possible. This is partly because we often have some part-time players and it is easy to start and end sessions in a logical manner.
Kopru ruins: I think I'm gonna have the baddies create some choke points, blocking off all but one or two entrances so that they are in control of the battlefield. I'm guessing that Skaven is the boss now that Triel is dead. Maybe I could even animate her as some type of undead now.... [DM scheming]
James: Not to kiss arse, but you are my fav writer working for Dungeon mag right now. "Flood Season" is a great chapter in SCAP, and "There is No Honor" is probably my favorite chapter in STAP. Write more!
-Darren