So what's the big deal?
Lawsuits
Four letters:
ACLU
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I'm confused. Are you talking about the actual Sunday upon which Easter falls or some arbitrary period of time that the kids have off schoool which borders the weekend upon which Easter falls? Because if you're talking about the later, it's not as if that particular week is known as "the Easter holiday". Typically, in the context of school, I've always referred to it as Spring Break, which does not necessarily border the weekend of Easter.
I personally can't see college kids caring much about Easter one way or the other. It's not the type of holiday that lends itself to the collegiate celebration style.
If I may though, I'd like to b!*&@ about how much I hate this stupid holiday. It's like Halloween's evil twin from the negaverse. Observe elements they share:
Dressing Up
H: Dress up as something cool/creative, possibly even sexy
E: Dress up in church-wear
Candy
H: Given out at night, after dinner, when properly enjoyed
E: Given out in the morning, before breakfast, when you will get sick
Timing
H: After dark!
E: The damn morning (and a Sunday at that)
Season
H: Autumn (the best season)
E: Spring (not the best season)
Pagan Flavor
H: Embraced with gusto
E: Denied with shame
Predictability
H: Last day of October, every year
E: Determined by arcane Christian rituals (seriously, is it based on the length of the Pope's shadow, or what?)
Eggs
H: You throw them at the homes of your enemies
E: You find them or suffer the consequences (eggs + passage of time = god awful stench)
Mascot
H: Devils, demons, monsters
E: Bunnies, lambs, ducks
I hate Easter. Hate hate hate Easter. HATE EASTER!!!
Thank you.
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I googled and got this:
"Easter is always celebrated on the Sunday immediately following the first full moon after the vernal (spring) equinox. The vernal equinox is one of only two times in the year when the sun crosses the celestial equator making the length of day and night approximately equal."
Man that's pagan sounding.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I googled and got this:
"Easter is always celebrated on the Sunday immediately following the first full moon after the vernal (spring) equinox. The vernal equinox is one of only two times in the year when the sun crosses the celestial equator making the length of day and night approximately equal."
Man that's pagan sounding.
Wow. I didn't realize it was tied to lunar cycles. Damn, that is pagan sounding.
You know what else I hate about Easter. No time off. I guarantee you that if it was celebrated in the evening with drinking and tom-foolery, Monday would be a holiday.
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Actually, the Hebrew calendar is lunar based also, so that's why a lot of Jewish holidays seem to occur at different dates every year.
I also read that the celts had a lunar calendar as well, so the modern habit of neo-pagans "emulating" the celts by celebrating the equinoxes, and the Solstices is fallacious; the celts hallowed no days of special solar length.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Actually, the Hebrew calendar is lunar based also, so that's why a lot of Jewish holidays seem to occur at different dates every year.
I also read that the celts had a lunar calendar as well, so the modern habit of neo-pagans "emulating" the celts by celebrating the equinoxes, and the Solstices is fallacious; the celts hallowed no days of special solar length.
How about the Chinese calendar? Is that lunar too? Are we the only ones with a non-lunar calendar?
Hey, I can't complain about these spring holidays--I get tommorow off school because of Good Friday and then Spring/Easter break. WOOT!
We happen to have Good Friday and Easter Monday as official holiday, so its a whole long weekend (unless you have to work on saturday).
And, nooo, is has absolutely no pagan roots - hares and eggs are time-honored christian symbols, and have nothing to do with fertility and the time of the year ;-)).
The name alone has several explanations - it may be the name of an old indogermanic goddess of the dawn, or the dawn itself, or the act of baptizing at dawn, or even an old wordroot for pouring water - the main action during a baptism.
In earlier times, the exact method of determining the date for easter was more or less secret - in truth, it was (and is) rather complicated and depends directly on the jewish pessach holiday.
IIRC, the classical "pagan" holidays are about 40 days after the equinoxes and solstices - hence we have halloween and beltane. But they are calculated after the moon phases if done "right".
And I don´t support the point of view that the easter holiday should be renamed spring holiday just to soothe anyone possibly offended by the usage of the christian name for it - the last time I looked, christianity was the main formative element in western culture, for good or for bad. If I would live somewhere where other formative elements are predominant, I would not expect that they would stop using the traditional names for holidays or what have you because somebody _might_ be offended. That is in my eyes overdone
But that is another topic entirely.
Stefan
... It's like Halloween's evil twin from the negaverse. ...
There is also the whole idea about having your sins forgiven, etc.
According to wikipedia’s ‘History of Halloween’, that holiday starts at night with the sunset. So, Halloween seems to be associated with the sun and the ‘end of summer’ and Easter seems to have connection to the moon and the beginning of summer.
You may be on to something with your negaverse idea!
Look, Western Civilization is evil and must be destroyed. That is what students are supposed to learn at univerisities, isn't it?
No, everything that is NOT Western is evil and should be destroyed.
Let's keep up with the times here..On a serious note, what do you teach?
I actually teach Financial Statement Analysis and Tax Accounting.. Fear me!! >:-)
Chinese calendar is a lunar calendar, which is why the Chinese new year begins on the first full moon of the year, if I recall.
The word "Easter" come from "Ostara", a Germanic fertility goddess. One opinion I have read is that a lot of the religious holidays we celebrate are tied to the same Pagan holidays that were celebrated in order to more easily convert the masses.
...
And I don´t support the point of view that the easter holiday should be renamed spring holiday just to soothe anyone possibly offended by the usage of the christian name for it - the last time I looked, christianity was the main formative element in western culture, for good or for bad. If I would live somewhere where other formative elements are predominant, I would not expect that they would stop using the traditional names for holidays or what have you because somebody _might_ be offended. That is in my eyes overdone
But that is another topic entirely.Stefan
I completely understand your point of view. But, I have to side with the Constitution of the United States.
In 30 years my city may be predominantly Muslim, and I don't want to have to start observing their holidays just because they are the majority and control the City Council, etc. So, I don't expect them (or anyone) to have to conform to my(our) elements of worship.
"Lilith"] the religious holidays we celebrate are tied to the same Pagan holidays that were celebrated in order to more easily convert the masses.
Precisely true. Just look at Christmas.
1) The tree is basically a symbol of Baal but also has roots in old Germanic fertility rights. What do you think the song Tanenbaum refers to?
2) The holly and mistletoe are old Druidic symbols.
Heck, even the idea of the lights on the house comes from very early Christian times when they were still being heavily persecuted by the Romans. A lighted lamp or candle in the window advertized a "safe house" where aid could be found.
It's all a scam, and the political correctness wonks won't stop til they have everybody else believing in and celebrating nothing.
What do you think the song Tanenbaum refers to?
I have no idea, what?? :-)
It's all a scam, and the political correctness wonks won't stop til they have everybody else believing in and celebrating nothing.
I think all this secular ideology applies to "Public Places", does it not?
And, "Public Place" has a precise definition, (again) does it not?I am actually asking two questions here -- Is there a lawyer in the house?
I would like to know!!
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I actually teach Financial Statement Analysis and Tax Accounting.. Fear me!! >:-)
Clearly you have not clicked on my profile. ;-)
You never answered the question I posed though - is this the actual Sunday on which Easter falls?
People whine about political correctness running amock, but this is generally what happens when you try and take a simple concept (be polite and respectful of those with different beliefs) and boil it down to precise elements that can be employed by a drooling imbecile. Teaching someone to be polite and respectful is a lot harder than teaching them "don't talk about religion" and thus, you get things like this.
Any large organization generates bizzarre policies like this because they are objective and easy to monitor. It's not a conspiracy, it's an example of the difficulty of crafting rules that are general enough to address the problem but specific enough to be easily implemented.
You never answered the question I posed though - is this the actual Sunday on which Easter falls?
hmm.. Don't know. I'll ask an Astronomer I sometimes run into, he may be dexterous at manipulating the calendar. (if I remember... :o )
Wasn't there an eclipse when Jesus was crucified? This may pinpoint it exactly!
Any large organization generates bizzarre policies like this because they are objective and easy to monitor. It's not a conspiracy, it's an example of the difficulty of crafting rules that are general enough to address the problem but specific enough to be easily implemented.
I guess you just answered the main question of this thread's original poster. :-)
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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It's all a scam, and the political correctness wonks won't stop til they have everybody else believing in and celebrating nothing.I think all this secular ideology applies to "Public Places", does it not?
And, "Public Place" has a precise definition, (again) does it not?I am actually asking two questions here: Is there a lawyer in the house?
I would like to know!!
*cough* I can probably make something up, but hell, Pulpcrucifiction is actually in law school so he's closer to First Amendment jurisprudence than I am. First Amendment law is fairly complex depending on who's doing the speaking, how they are speaking, and where they are speaking. There are multiple flavors of public place, but I think the issue with the university is more one of who the actor is.
The case law about religious displays is generally that public entities cannot do them. I'm not sure how stating that the first Sunday after the full moon after the solar eclipse on jupiter is called Easter is a religious display (that's like saying you can't say Jesus Christ is an important figure in Christianity - that's a fact, not a promotion of religion).
I'm really curious as to whether this holiday extends to other days though. I wouldn't generally refer to an Easter Holiday because its an ambiguous term. I think of the Easter Holiday as the Sunday on which Easter occurs, a day when I would expect most college administrative functions to be closed anyway. If the sign is intended to communicate that the office will be closed on another day, I think Spring Holiday communicates that fact more efficiently.
Also, I don't understand how you could close the office because of a religious holiday and yet not say that it is closed because of a religious holiday. The former is a much greater display of religion than the later.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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You never answered the question I posed though - is this the actual Sunday on which Easter falls?hmm.. Don't know. I'll ask an Astronomer I sometimes run into, he may be dexterous at manipulating the calendar. (if I remember... :o )
Wasn't there an eclipse when Jesus was crucified? This may pinpoint it exactly!
Sorry - I thought you were the OP. I am curious as to whether the building is closed only on April 8 (i.e., Easter) or on some larger set of days. Whether or not Easter is actually the anniversary of some biblical event is well beyond the scope of my ability to give a damn.
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Contributor
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Candy
H: Given out at night, after dinner, when properly enjoyed
E: Given out in the morning, before breakfast, when you will get sick...
I hate Easter. Hate hate hate Easter. HATE EASTER!!!
But Easter is when Cadbury puts forth its delectable Creme Eggs. So I like this time of year because it brings us my favorite candy.
Yum yum yum! :D
Candy
H: Given out at night, after dinner, when properly enjoyed
E: Given out in the morning, before breakfast, when you will get sick...
I hate Easter. Hate hate hate Easter. HATE EASTER!!!
But Easter is when Cadbury puts forth its delectable Creme Eggs. So I like this time of year because it brings us my favorite candy.
Yum yum yum! :D
You have just made Sebastian's day.
Who can resist biting the head off of a chocolate easter bunny? Look at it as your chance to "swallow whole" an entire chocolate creature! :)
1) The tree is basically a symbol of Baal but also has roots in old Germanic fertility rights. What do you think the song Tanenbaum refers to?
The Tannenbaum (christmas tree) as we know it today is a tradition not older than 500 years, and spread in the 19th century. So, is has no direct pagan roots. Evergreen trees and plants surely are some kind of fertility symbol, and humans use them since milennia to bring health and the hope for spring into their houses, but the christmas tree is at best a vague echo of these traditions, not a direct translation.
Stefan
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FORMAL PROOF:
Statement: EASTER SUCKS.
Reason: Sunday is game day, on which there is a cumulative 1% chance of hitting an old church-lady with one's car. It being Easter Sunday, that chance increases to 20% for old ladies, 8% for old men, and 4% for little kids. Though I have dubious morals, the incident of a non-Christian (60% of my gaming group) mowing down innocent civilians would ruin my gamer cred, as well as creating an unnecessary amount of paperwork. Therefore, it is not pratical to have a game on Easter F%*+ing Sunday.
Simplified: Easter Sunday = No Game Day, because Easter Sunday = Hitting Old Ladies With Car, which causes Unnecessary Paperwork, which equals No Game Day.
Quod Erat Demonstratum
Who can resist biting the head off of a chocolate easter bunny? Look at it as your chance to "swallow whole" an entire chocolate creature! :)
Hmmmm. This poses an interesting cunundrum. I love chocolate, yet I do not eat creatures. Will cholcolate prevail? Meh, probably.
Quod Erat Demonstratum
Was that neccessary? Should we rename you to "The Eldritch Mr. McClintock?"
'sokay. Rabbits are a vegetabule.
Had rabbit for dinner tonight. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
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Who can resist biting the head off of a chocolate easter bunny? Look at it as your chance to "swallow whole" an entire chocolate creature! :)Hmmmm. This poses an interesting cunundrum. I love chocolate, yet I do not eat creatures. Will cholcolate prevail? Meh, probably.
Quod Erat DemonstratumWas that neccessary? Should we rename you to "The Eldritch Mr. McClintock?"
For Dirk Gently:
Ow. That was low.
For everyone else:
Don't ask.
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I used to like Easter. When I was a kid, it was because I liked getting candy. Later, It was because the family got together and we had some really good food. Still later, it was because the family got together, we had really good food, and we sat around drinking beer and shooting the shit.
These days, since I don't live near family anymore, I just kind of ignore it. That is the wonderful thing about our society. If someone is doing something I don't like, I have the choice of ignoring them, which is what I prefer to do vice enforcing my own beliefs (or lack thereof) on them.
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A good friend of mine, who sadly lives in Colorado now, had an Easter tradition where he would roast a rabbit for Easter lunch and watch The Life of Brian. Ahh, good times.
That's hilarious. I should start that, but it's hard to find rabbit in the stores -- probably especially at this time of year.
What's wrong with Colorado?
Anybody here see Eddie Izzard?
"The reason we have chocolate on Easter is because the color of chocolate and the color of the wood of the cross..."
If I may though, I'd like to b@!@# about how much I hate this stupid holiday. It's like Halloween's evil twin from the negaverse.
...so over the celebration of rebirth, mercy and victory you prefer memorial day of death, decay and contemplating your mortality? Well, whatever floats your emo kid boat.
If you are an atheist and don't care about dressings of the celebration, I am forced to ask why do you bother with it in first place?
Besides, Easter has good food. Lamb, chocolate, pasha, mämmi (though latter two are pretty hard to get where I am living now)...
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I'm guessing nobody watches South Park... They explained the entire mystery to us this week. It's an ancient conspiracy, you know.
Oh... And don't eat the Cadbury cream eggs! They sound delicious, and they are for one or two bites, but then you try to eat the whole thing, and you feel sick for the rest of the day.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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...so over the celebration of rebirth, mercy and victory you prefer memorial day of death, decay and contemplating your mortality? Well, whatever floats your emo kid boat.If I may though, I'd like to b@!@# about how much I hate this stupid holiday. It's like Halloween's evil twin from the negaverse.
Yeah, that's me, Mr. Emo Kid. Sometimes people come up to me on the street and say, "Cheer up Emo Kid" and I say "Screw you. Life is hard."
But, yeah, I do prefer the celebration that involves fun and levity over downtrodden self-important tales of sacrifice.
If you are an atheist and don't care about dressings of the celebration, I am forced to ask why do you bother with it in first place?
I don't. I also don't bother with pedophelia, yet I find that repulsive as well. Didn't realize participation was required to dislike something.
Besides, Easter has good food. Lamb, chocolate, pasha, mämmi (though latter two are pretty hard to get where I am living now)...
Neh.
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I have to say, I find this post a little disappointing. Several comments were made complaining about what an inconvenience this holiday is for them, whether they have to endure unpalatable beliefs and decorations or creating smug mock-celebrations to set themselves apart from it.
Whatever your beliefs, it should be taken to heart that the Easter holiday was founded on the ideal of the greatest gift and sacrifice for mankind (real or imagined). Life might seem a little better if you took this time off from the regular routine to share with family, donate time or money to the needy, and appreciate the life you have, especially a life of freedom like most of us in the western world can enjoy.
I'm not trying to be preachy but I'm sure I've managed it all the same. What I do intend is to offer a perspective beyond a self-serving one.
But, yeah, I do prefer the celebration that involves fun and levity over downtrodden self-important tales of sacrifice.
Well, different ways of celebrating...since as far as I have it experienced, Halloween is just the most unfun, un-levity "celebration" ever...it's a day of death, and not death in abstract sense but in very real "your dead grandmother" way. Day of those who were before you, and how you will join them tomorrow.
I have gathered that it is celebrated differently in other places though...Easter, however, is celebration of joy, spring and life.
The name "Easter" originated with the names of an ancient Goddess and God. The Venerable Bede, (672-735 CE.) a Christian scholar, first asserted in his book De Ratione Temporum that Easter was named after Eostre (a.k.a. Eastre). She was the Great Mother Goddess of the Saxon people in Northern Europe. Similarly, the "Teutonic dawn goddess of fertility [was] known variously as Ostare, Ostara, Ostern, Eostra, Eostre, Eostur, Eastra, Eastur, Austron and Ausos." 1 Her name was derived from the ancient word for spring: "eastre." Similar Goddesses were known by other names in ancient cultures around the Mediterranean, and were celebrated in the springtime. Some were:
Aphrodite from ancient Cyprus
Ashtoreth from ancient Israel
Astarté from ancient Greece
Demeter from Mycenae
Hathor from ancient Egypt
Ishtar from Assyria
Kali, from India
Ostara a Norse Goddess of fertility.
Google, then Ctrl+C Ctrl+V
'The Golden Bough' by Sir James Frazer is available as an ebook through project Gutenberg. I reccomend it to anyone interested in magic and religion.
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/3623
This book was one of the most influential in history, as it showed that other cultures, once regarded as primitive, has mythologies as intricate as any Judeo-Christian or Hellenic civilisation.
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No way. Easter is great. Photo scavenger hunts for easter baskets. Huge easter egg hunts. Giant egg-laying rabbits. What's not to like? Plus, you can tell the kids that there's an extra special plastic egg hidden out in the yard, in a place they'll never think to look, that has a twenty in it!
They'll look for the rest of the day. Sure they'll cry when they realize that the egg's not really out there, but deep down, you know they get the joke...
They'll look for the rest of the day. Sure they'll cry when they realize that the egg's not really out there, but deep down, you know they get the joke...
That made me laugh, thanks.
I always thought Halloween, and Ground Hogs Day, fell on what is called a cross-quarter day. Which is the day that falls exactly between an Equinox and a Solstice. I can't remember what they all are, and the 'net here in Baghdad is wonky tonight and I don't feel like looking that up to confirm it.