Summoning
A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower. It is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can’t be summoned again.
When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have, and it refuses to cast any spells that would cost it XP, or to use any spell-like abilities that would cost XP if they were spells.
As written, Leomund's secret chest makes no sense. Sure, the chest can be summoned to Ethereal Plane, but as per the rules for summoning effects, nothing that happens to any creatures in the chest there should effect that creature in a permanent manner. Meaning especially that this statement:
Living things in the chest eat, sleep, and age normally, and they die if they run out of food, air, water, or whatever they need to survive.
is a load of bunk (unless the 'living things' entered the chest after it was summoned to the Ether). Sure, they might die on the Ethereal, but being as they were summoned, they will suddenly be alive again and back home 24 hours after they 'perish' or are 'destroyed', or immediately if the chest is recalled before then, with no ill effects from the trip.
Also, what would happen if an Ethereal traveler came upon the chest and cast dispel magic after the chest is "lost?"
I think the easiest fix for this is to make secret chest a teleportation effect (with the note that the transport is two-way after a fashion, as per teleportation rules). Thoughts?
Also: Trap the soul, also a summoning effect. It doesn't seem quite right, but there's nothing about it that's wrong, either...
Magic in d&d is wonky. 'Nuff said.
Magic in d&d is wonky. 'Nuff said.
Well, it CAN be wonky, but D&D magic is generally codified and works the same way every time it is cast. Unless you're in a wild magic zone or in a very strange environment, casting fireball will always deal a good amount of fire damage to creatures at long range in a 20 foot radius spread, spell resistance/evasion excepted. It will take a standard action to cast and require arcane words, gestures, and a ball of bat guano and sulfur to flick toward your victims.
Is the change to secret chest necessary? Am I going to come across the spell any time soon? Will I even bother to make this change in the event the spell comes up?
Probably not. But I thought it was interesting to note. Doing the research to make the post allowed me to learn a few things I hadn't known before - for instance, scrying spells can be detected by characters with a 12 or higher Intelligence with a DC 20 Intelligence check. I suppose I'd better play Allustan a little more cautious in the future... (Geez, the whole of Diamond Lake's aristocracy is frickin' paranoid!)
I looked it over, and I think the spell gets off on a technicality. It has 2 effects:
1) It sends the chest and its contents into the Ethereal Plane. It doesn't say anywhere in the spell description that that is a summoning effect, and indeed, in the brief description of summoning from the PH just before the detailed description you mention, it says "Conjurations bring manifestations of objects, creatures, or some form of energy to you (the summoning subschool)..." (emphasis mine) Since this part of the spell doesn't bring anything to you, I would think it thusly does not follow the rules for summoned objects/creatures. Living creatures in the chest at the time of casting haven't been summoned to the Ethereal Plane, they've been sent there, and so they can get hungry, die, and so on.
2)On command, it brings the chest back to your location. It does refer to this part of the spell specifically as summoning. So you've effectively sent something that belongs on the Prime Material Plane (or wherever you cast it) to the Ethereal and summoned it back to the Prime Material (or wherever you cast it)- it doesn't matter that it's a summoning effect, they'd simply be dead on the Ethereal and come back dead with the rest of the chest's contents.
That's what I get from the description, at least- which means it really should have both teleportation and summoning subschools, but I don't think there are any spells with two subschools. Clearly someone at WotC just flipped a coin when deciding.
As for dispel magic, once the chest is "lost", the spell is discharged. There's not anything to dispel anymore (except for any magical stuff you may have had in the chest).
Hope that made any sense...
You're using the general overview of Conjuration here. The specifics of Summoning state that "a summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate."
If only the second part is actual summoning, then any creature in the chest when it is summoned would "instantly {be} sent back to where it came from," since the spell has then ended. Which would put them into the Ethereal Plane again. Sounds like a stage magician trick...
"Please, step into the chest." *turns to the audience* "Now observe, as I remove the subject from EXISTANCE!" *poof* *oohs and aahs from audience*
"And now, to return the chest back to this stage..." *poof* "And we open it, and..." *more oohs and aahs*
Participant's Friend: "Hey, wait, where did he go?"
Magician: "Heck if I know. Cool trick though, ain't it?"
As for dispel magic, once the chest is "lost", the spell is discharged. There's not anything to dispel anymore (except for any magical stuff you may have had in the chest).
Well, that works for the chest itself (since "a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this"), but any creatures in the chest...
If the spell currently works as I think it does, then the first part of the spell is the summoning, the second part is the optional recall for objects. But creatures are recalled when the spell has ended, according to the summoning subschool. So when has the spell actually "ended?" After 60 days? After it is "lost?" Never? If the last option, then dispel magic would remain viable (assuming the chest was found on the Ether) - and wouldn't that be strange, if the chest (and, say, an extraplanar outsider inside) had been gone for centuries?
Hm... sounds like an interesting adventure hook...
But otherwise, the creatures inside the chest would be recalled unharmed when "killed" or when the spell ended.
Well, the duration of the spell is "60 days or until discharged". By discharged I assume they mean when you call the chest back- so I would suppose that creatures sent with the chest either come back when the chest does (always presuming that they come back at all) or after 60 days, since that's when the duration runs out.
Although you would think that the chest is lost as soon as the spell ends, so why have a cumulative chance to lose it after the spell is over? *shrug*
Having said all that, I will also say that I've never played a character who cast that spell, or even heard of anyone who did- in fact, I don't think I've even seen an NPC have it cast in a module of any kind, so it's probably not a very pressing problem, yeah? :-)
I call a vote to rename this spell "Schrodinger's Chest"- once you cast the spell, maybe the guys you put in there come back, maybe they don't, maybe only when they die, but come back alive, or dead, or unalive- you can never truly know until the DM has had a migraine headache for days and makes a snap judgment.
But otherwise, the creatures inside the chest would be recalled unharmed when "killed" or when the spell ended.
Here I am confused. You did not summon a creature - you just stuck a mundane creature into an object that can be summoned on command. Nothing it says under the summoning school should effect the poor mundane creature one wit when it comes to living in a box that hangs out in the Etherial plane.
Having said all that, I will also say that I've never played a character who cast that spell, or even heard of anyone who did- in fact, I don't think I've even seen an NPC have it cast in a module of any kind, so it's probably not a very pressing problem, yeah? :-)
Its pretty much a busted spell. My players looked into due to my habit of making the Dragons horde consist of 2.8 million copper pieces and then vigerously enforcing encumberance limits. You have to buy this outragously expensive chest. There are just better options like for storing stuff. Bag of Holding anyone? Or for transporting stuff.