Why Not Always Hustle?

[Rezdave]

While reviewing the PHB for my "Run-Fly" thread, I noted that a hustle allows "moving that {twice normal} speed in the same round that he or she performs a standard action or another move action" (PHB p.163).

This being the case, what are the negatives of hustling in a combat situation? Are there any, or did every character's tactical speed just double? Basically, it's like a free double-move.

Maybe you should always be flat-footed when hustling, provoke an attack of opportunity (even when entering a threatened square) or something similar.

Thoughts appreciated,

Rez

[Troy Taylor]

In tactical combat round, anytime you move faster than your base speed, it is considered running. And running is a full action.

[Slinky]

Note that the PHB separates movement into tactical, local, and overland. Hustling as you defined it happens in local and overland movement, but in combat, you use the section on tactical movement, which specifies that a single move action is like hustling for half a round (and presumably, a double-move action is like hustling for the whole round).

[Rezdave]

Slinky wrote:

Note that the PHB separates movement into tactical, local, and overland. Hustling as you defined it happens in local and overland movement.

Actually, as I defined it is "Tactical" (you don't take round-by-round actions in Overland movement, and probably not Local either), and the quote is from the main "Modes of Movement" section preceeding the Tactical, Local and Overland subsections.

But upon re-reading more closely and looking at that run-on sentence from another perspective (and some quick calculations), I've figured it out.

Basically, in tactical combat you are automatically hustling. I read the word "that" as meaning "moving his or her speed twice" from the preceeding clause, when it really just means the "moving his or her speed" part.

That was quick ...

Rez

[baudot]

Perhaps I misunderstood, but I was of the impression that hustling proper was nothing more than spending your standard action as a second move action, meaning that you could NOT do it and take a standard action for the turn.

[Bocklin]

baudot wrote:

Perhaps I misunderstood, but I was of the impression that hustling proper was nothing more than spending your standard action as a second move action, meaning that you could NOT do it and take a standard action for the turn.

Exactly my impression.

- You take a single move = akin to walking
- You take a double move = hustling
- You run in a straight line = 3x or 4x your speed

Linked to that is the "overland speed table" from the PHB. These 24 miles per day (@ speed 30 ft.) are equivalent to taking single move actions every round for eight hours (i.e. walking).

Bocklin

[Slinky]

I thought the philosophy behind it, though, was sort of roundabout. The idea is that you're hustling everywhere, but since a normal move action is only hustling for half a round, you only move half your hustle speed (meaning your normal walk speed). Idunno, maybe everyone else found it less interesting.

[Rezdave]

baudot wrote:

Perhaps I misunderstood, but I was of the impression that hustling proper was nothing more than spending your standard action as a second move action, meaning that you could NOT do it and take a standard action for the turn.

Being a writer and editor I've reviewed to death the sentence that confused me in the first place ... here's what it means:

A Human walks 30' per round. Basically, he is spending the entire round just walking as a full-round action. Of course, he's engaged in overland or local movement, not tactical, so we're not counting rounds anyway. If he stops to take another action (move-equivalent or standard) then he just double-times a few seconds and it doesn't affect his over-all travel rate.

Basically, humans walk at a 15' move-action rate.

"Hustle" is moving more quickly. By hustling you can take your normal "full-round walk action" as a Move Action and still get in a Standard Action.

So when our friendly human gets ambushed by highwaymen along the road and we switch to round-by-round actions and tactical movement in a combat situation, he automatically begins to hustle (PHB p.163 "Tactical Movement", 2nd sentence). After all, who would want to casually stroll around during a fight.

Note that all the values in Table 9-3 in the Tactical section are for Full Round Actions, not move-actions. Thus, if you hustle the entire round you go 60' for a "double-move" but it you only hustle as a Move Action then you only go 30' ... the same distance you'd move during that entire round if you were simply walking casually and the adrenaline of combat wasn't hurrying you.

It's a bit confusing, hence the reason for the thread in the first place. However, with a careful re-reading of the Movement>Modes of Movement>Hustle second sentence it gets clearer. See my previous post for clarification of the correct way to read the word "that".

Bocklin wrote:

- You take a single move = akin to walking

- You take a double move = hustling
- You run in a straight line = 3x or 4x your speed

Although it's never explicitly stated, you have to think of "walking" as a full-round action that progresses the character a distance equal to their movement rate, while a "hustle" is a move action that covers the same distance in half the time.

Thus Bocklin's chart becomes:

- You take a full-round action walking = progress your standard movement distance
- You take a single move = hustling your standard movement distance (and take a Standard Action before or after)
- You take a double move = hustling twice
- You run in a straight line = 3x or 4x your speed

Bocklin wrote:

Linked to that is the "overland speed table" from the PHB. These 24 miles per day (@ speed 30 ft.) are equivalent to taking single move actions every round for eight hours (i.e. walking).

Actually, the listed rates are equivalent to taking full-round walk actions for eight hours.

Taking single move actions for 8 hours would be hustling a tedious 3 seconds followed by 3 seconds of stopping for a Standard Action, then rinse & repeat ad nauseum.

Fun, isn't it ... I'm so glad I started this obnoxious thread.

Rez