| hexmaven |
Hello fellow gamers. I'm posting this to get a lil help from all the collective gaming experience and knowledge out there. This is sort of a silly little question, but here goes. Can a cleric in an extra-dimensional space pray for and get more spells at his normal proscribed time? Personally, I feel he can, but our current DM is still undecided. He requested that we (the players) provide some empirical proof that being on another plane/dimension doesn't "sever" a cleric's connection to his deity (or divine power for a cleric who doesn't have a deity).
Here's the situation that has come up: We're in an extra-dimensional space. We got there by some trap that apparently plane shifted us there. Nobody currently has a plane shift spell. Fortunately, we fought and defeated the insane dragon that was occupying this lil space. Seeing that there's nothing around, we figure we can simply rest and let our cleric pray for a plane shift spell the next day. Our DM feels that this may not be possible and he challenged us to show him something in writing that says a cleric can pray for spells when he's on any other plane besides the prime material plane. Well, I was tired, but I tried to find something that related to the situation. Unfortunately, all I've found thus far is under the cleric's section in the PHB about praying for spells and it really doesn't go into detail about other planes. Of course, I know the DM has final say about how things work in a given game world. But, at the same time, some things are standardized in the PHB unless changed by the DM. I was just wondering if anyone had any references that might be helpful. Thanks for any help you all can provide.
Hexmaven
| The White Toymaker |
Well, Lolth resides in the Demonweb Pits inside the abyss, the other gods have their homes wherever the heck it is that they hang out... of the Greyhawk deities, the only one I'm aware of who stays in the Prime is Iuz. That hasn't been any hindrance at all in their ability to grant spells. For that matter, Tharizdun is locked away in the gods only know where, and still grants spells to his cultists.
A deity has the ability to, among other things, extend his awareness to any place in which his name has been spoken within a period of time dependent on his Divine Rank. Unless you want to open up the option of escaping a deity's notice and plotting against it by hiding out in a Rope Trick, there's no reason I can think of that your cleric would be deprived of his spells for that reason.
Now, if his daily prayers are dependent on certain features of the normal world -- for example, facing the sun as it rises and intoning a prayer to Pelor, or whathaveyou, they may require some adaptation or a bit of lenience, but that's the case on any new plane, not just an extra-dimensional space.
| Jeremy Mac Donald |
Page 149 of the DMG "Unless otherwise noted in the description all planes in the D&D Cosmology have the normal magic trait".
Slightly before this line there is a definition of what is meant by a plane having the normal magic trait. Essentially that definition is magic functions as it normally does.
So your DM was perfectly within his rights to say that you are cut off from your Gods (by simply giving the demi-plane something other then the Normal Magic Trait) but if he is undecided and wanting to go with the standard issue demi-plane then you can in fact pray to your Gods and get your Plane Shift spell.
| Jeremy Mac Donald |
Thanks for the responses, I'll look into the page reference. Maybe that's the "in writing" proof he needs for the standard rule.
I don't think your going to get much more then this. You can pray for spells while using Rope Trick not because it says so under the Rope Trick Spell but because it does not address the matter at all and the DMG covers that base by having a rule that essentially states 'unless we go out of our way to tell you that you can't use magic in an extra dimensional space then you can.'
Celestial Healer
|
I'd just like to second the White Toymaker. Every time a cleric receives spells, he is contacting his deity across planar boundaries. I don't see why this should be any different, unless the dimension he is in has specific properties that prevent it (in which case your DM wouldn't be looking for a ruling on the matter).
DitheringFool
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I don't have a problem with the DM saying that a plane has alternate capabilities (you should see the stuff in here) but I don't think a DM should blatantly cut off a player from playing his character. What good is a cleric with no cleric-ness (see this cool product)?
Maybe let the DM roll randomly to see what spells get through...
| Saern |
"I'm sorry, unless you can find a reference that states that your digestive tract continues to work on another plane, it simply stops and you all starve to death."
Well, the problem with finding that reference is that it is so innately assumed that one's digestive tract works no matter where you go, no one bothered to say it.
Same thing with cleric spells. Every time your cleric prays for spells, he is reaching out across the planes to recieve power. Why would changing the one he's currently on make any difference at all? Unless you've neglected to tell us that you play in a world where the gods all live somewhere on the Prime Material and can't reach out to other planes, which I doubt is the case.
I would counter and say that the burden of proof is on your DM to find evidence that cleric's can't prepare spells on another plane.
Fake Healer
|
"I'm sorry, unless you can find a reference that states that your digestive tract continues to work on another plane, it simply stops and you all starve to death."
Well, the problem with finding that reference is that it is so innately assumed that one's digestive tract works no matter where you go, no one bothered to say it.
Same thing with cleric spells. Every time your cleric prays for spells, he is reaching out across the planes to recieve power. Why would changing the one he's currently on make any difference at all? Unless you've neglected to tell us that you play in a world where the gods all live somewhere on the Prime Material and can't reach out to other planes, which I doubt is the case.
I would counter and say that the burden of proof is on your DM to find evidence that cleric's can't prepare spells on another plane.
He would probably invoke DMs perogotive(sp?) if pressed. People don't like being made fools of.
FH
| Saern |
Well, I wouldn't be so flippant with him in person as I was on my post unless he was a good friend of mine; the whole argument against the preparation just struck me as absurd. I would have mentioned, however, my belief that most people wouldn't assume otherwise, which may make finding a reference difficult, and it may be a better idea to put the burden of proof on his shoulders. (That's the difference between good and bad Diplomacy rolls right there for you; you never know what you'll learn in a day!)