I'm looking for something to speed up combat encounters and to give them a more realistic feel.
Has anyone of you gained experience with the "Vitality and wound points" or the "injury" option from unearthed arcana? If you don't know what I mean, check out the SRD:
http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/variantAdventuring.htm
Thanks!
I used Wound/Vitality points in my one and only Star Wars d20 game, and swore never again. My BBEG was cut down in a single hit by the Jedi Guardian who happened to roll a critical hit at just the right time. In a campaign I wouldn't have cared, but in a one-shot it basically destroyed the game. (Conversely, in a campaign, if a BBEG is one-hit killed it doesn't really matter, but it shouldn't happen to a high-level PC, but WP/VP does nothing to prevent it.)
And that's my fundamental problem with WP/VP - it makes critical hits far too deadly. However, my understanding is that Spycraft fixes a lot of my issues with the system... but I haven't read that game so can't comment.
In D&D, WP/VP runs into problems as soon as you gain some mechanism to add considerably to damage dealt. Sneak Attacks, energy weapons and the like create problems. And the tactic of True Strike + Power Attack + Two-handed Weapon becomes monstrous.
I'm not saying it can't be done, and can't be made to work well. But it needs a lot more thought put into the damage systems in the game than was done in Unearthed Arcana. And it needs more work done than I would ever consider doing, especially for a system that I simply don't like.
I would say that it depends on the attack/how well it beats the target's AC.
example - Gnoll vs. PC w/AC 17 (keep in mind, I'm just throwing out numbers, so I apologize if the math doesn't work out)
Gnoll attacks for 17, hits. Standard damage, nothing special.
Gnoll attacks for 23, hits hard. You could add to the attack by having the blow damage the PC's armor, not sunder, just damage, only lowering it's bonus by a point or two. Or you could rule that the blow knocked the PC into something, adding a couple points to the damage.
Gnoll attacks for 27, hits REALLY hard. Seeing as the attack was so high, you could rule that the blow injured the PC somehow. For an axe, I'd say it messed up his/her arm or leg. So you could say that the PC now has a -X on attack rolls, skills, land speed, ect... anything that the injured body part would affect. (I would adjust the above X depending on the attack's damage roll)
On the same note, if the weapon was a bow/crossbow, a high enough attack could hit the PC in the eye, partially blinding them. A fireball could char skin, causing penalties. An electrical attack cause momentary DEX lose, due to seizures/numbing. Or an attack against a PC's mind result in a headache or double vision. (This one could still happen even if the PC shakes off the effect)
Really, it's up to the DM. Now I'm not saying that it should be done constantly, but applying additional injuries or damage outside of the standard die roll would prove an interesting way to keep the PCs on their toes.
I've seen it done a couple of times. But the DM had thought out what he was going to use and made them believable, so the players didn't mind.
-Kurocyn
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
|
In my experience, the vitality/wound system is seriously flawed. Even more so than the hit point system. The vast majority of characters and monsters will have fewer than 20 wound points and with spells like hunter's mercy to all but guarantee critical hits, you run into serious problems. Even if you ban spells like that, every character you see will be a critical-scoring monstrosity. There is no good reason NOT to take Improved Critical or make every weapon you get your hands on keen somehow. No one will use greatswords or greataxes because a falchion has a higher threat range. Rapiers, scimitars, and kukris will dominate the game because the size of the damage dice do not matter. With a little bit of strength modifier, possibly an enhancement bonus, and a tad of Power Attack, 25% of the attack rolls that are made are going to end up killing someone.
Then there's the prospect of fighting undead and constructs. The undead template's immunity to criticals suddenly changes it from a minor boon to a nigh-godly asset! Especially if you have a vampire rogue with keen scimitars fighting the PCs. The entire party will be dead within 5 rounds, almost guaranteed, because the vampire will slice through their 12-18 wound points LONG before they shred through his 80-100 vitality.
I don't like the system myself. It requires far too much work to balance than I would want to put into it, so I simply avoid using it.
Try doing a search for vitality points on the boards; there have been at least 3 threads on the topic. I have played with the system and have an opinion, but I'm not motivated enough to type it again.
Yes, I found some of these threads but not very many people seem to use or even have tried the Injury option - that's why I started a new thread. Our games are usually very short (between 2 and 3 hours) and I'm especially looking for a way to fasten the combats. I'd also be thankful for any other suggestions/options etc.
Thanks for the replies, I'm beginning to see the flaws of the vitality system. It's nothing I still consider using if I have to houserule in so many cases...
What is the 'injury option?' Could you please clarify?
It is an optional rule from unearthed arcana and can also be found in the SRD: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/injury.htm
With this rule you don't have hit points anymore and have to make Fortitude saves when you are hit to check if you are disabled by the hit. I think it's kind of interesting but I wonder how it is in actual play.
|
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
|
Yes, I found some of these threads but not very many people seem to use or even have tried the Injury option - that's why I started a new thread. Our games are usually very short (between 2 and 3 hours) and I'm especially looking for a way to fasten the combats. I'd also be thankful for any other suggestions/options etc.
Ah. Sorry, missed the fact that you were looking for information on the injury option.
Virtually every optional combat rule in game (except for the defense bonus option and a few others) makes life more difficult for the PCs. Since the DM rolls so many more attack rolls in an average adventure than his PCs, the system favors the bag guys more than the good guys. I would thus be careful introducing wound points. Also, if anyone has ever played the old MORG system you know that critical hit tables basically suck. They generally slow up the game and demoralize the PCs.