Our barbarian 8 was drained 4 times so he has 4 negative levels. Which save bonus should apply 24h later when he rolls to see if each drain is permanent?
Each negative level bestows a double whammy: -1 penalty to save and -1 effective level. So the Barb 8 take a -4 (from each neg lvl) and a -2 (Barb8 vs Bar4) for a total of -6 to Fortitude save for 24hours. The question is whether those penalties apply when he rolls his Fort save 24h later.
Should he rolls with:
i) +9 as a Barb 8 with 16 of Constitution (no penalties)
ii) +7 (4+3) (his Cons +3, his effective level is Barb 4's Fort+4 but no -1 per neg. level)
iii) + 3 (4 effective lvl + 3Constitution -4 from the neg levels penalty still in place)
I'm leaning toward iii if only because otherwise high level characters would never lose a level permanently.
RAW PHB p310's text is slightly different from the SRD as it states the "Neg . level goes away, but the afflicted creature must make a Save to determine whether there's a lasting effect."
SRD doesn't mention the neg lvl going away and hence its penalty should apply to the For save.
RAW SRD:
Each successful energy drain attack bestows one or more negative levels on the opponent. A creature takes the following penalties for each negative level it has gained.
–1 on all skill checks and ability checks.
–1 on attack rolls and saving throws.
–5 hit points.
–1 effective level (whenever the creature’s level is used in a die roll or calculation, reduce it by one for each negative level).
...
Negative levels remain for 24 hours or until removed with a spell, such as restoration. After 24 hours, the afflicted creature must attempt a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 attacker’s HD + attacker’s Cha modifier). (The DC is provided in the attacker’s description.) If the saving throw succeeds, the negative level goes away with no harm to the creature. The afflicted creature makes a separate saving throw for each negative level it has gained. If the save fails, the negative level goes away, but the creature’s level is also reduced by one.[/indent][/i]
I think you might be off on the "double whammy" interpretation. I was always under the impression (even after reading the SRD quote you provided) that the -1 on saves per negative level is the penalty you take on saves. The -1 effective level has to do with things like level checks, such as a caster would have to make to dispel magic or overcome spell resistance, or a caster level with regard to spell effects that increase with higher levels.
It was always my understanding that the -1 across the board approach was to simplify negative levels so that you didn't have to constantly refigure your character's various stats, such as saves, until you actually had determined if you were going to loose your level permanently.
Our barbarian 8 was drained 4 times so he has 4 negative levels. Which save bonus should apply 24h later when he rolls to see if each drain is permanent?
The first saving throw will be at -4. If he succeeds on that one the next will be at -3, and so forth.
There is nothing to prevent you from drinking a potion of bears' endurance (or having the party spellcaster cast it on you) and raging just before making the saves.
Although if you roll a few threes, its all a moot point . . . sorry, I lost two levels last gaming session, and I'm still feeling the pain . . .
Although if you roll a few threes, its all a moot point . . . sorry, I lost two levels last gaming session, and I'm still feeling the pain . . .
I'll tell my players that there are others like them - wight survivors. Maybe there's a support group - Drained Anonymous!
Actually it gets more complicated as the barbarian in question was killed in the same fight.I ruled he has to roll 24h later as they plan to resurrect him in a couple of weeks. I haven't found the Fortitude penalties for being dead ;-)
At least, I have time to resolve this ruling.
If he was slain in battle the negative levels become moot. I believe that the act of raising him from the dead negates any negative levels he suffered from during the fight. Things like diseases and poison stick around, but the negative levels don't. Remember that the PC loses a level from being raised anyway, so I wouldn't be hitting him twice if I were you.