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Hello all,
Ive seen this rpg before, in name only, and only on the paizo site. I have even heard that this rpg is even more popular than D&D in Germany. In fact, i have never heard anything other than praise for said game-the pen&paper version.
So, anyone with experiences with said game, please share with me why it is so great. I'd like to know all about it so please go into detail. Assume i know nothing about it when responding. Thanks.
I have also heard that it has been printed in english, though i have yet to find a site.
Thoth-Amon the Mindflayerian Atlantian
I can´t really tell if it is more popular in Germany than D&D - depends upon whom you ask, I think.
It is made by Fanpro these days, who also publish Shadowrun. I think you should be able to find their website - the german website is blocked in my office.
It was first published in 1984, around the same time D&D was first published in german.
What makes it so popular may be that the system is relatively low-powered - it was considered low-fantasy in the past. Other PC races than humans are seldom seen, and spellcasters have severe limitations. This probably has changed a bit in the latest edition, but I don´t know for sure - I did not play it for about 5 years or more. The system is level-based, even if the limitations set by the levels have been somewhat lessened in the newest edition.
The rules as I remember them had some similarities to D&D - a number of attributes ranging normally from 8 to 13 for a starting character, and the range going up to 20. Courage was an attribute unheard of in D&D - it determined who went first in combat. Other attributes are dexterity, strength, charisma etc. The characters had a fixed amount of hit points to start with (30 for most, 25 for wizards) and this raised by 1d6 each level - wizards had to decide if they raised their magic points instead, which most of them did.
Most weapons deal 1d6+something base damage - a dagger +1, a long sword +4, and you would add an amount based on strengh, which varies for every weapon - a swords damage bonus was your strenght minus 11 or 12, for a whip, it was minus 18 or 19, for a rapier, 13 or 14, and so on. Armor reduced damage taken from 1 (normal clothing) to 6 (Plate mail), but reduced your agility (attributes and skills) by a like amount.
Characters have in Melee attack and parry skills, which can lead to protracted fights with high-level characters. You have to roll below your skill with 1d20, and the limit for attack skills was 18, for parry 17 (set arbitrarily), so the die rolling could last for hours. At some point, they introduced additional rules to circumvent this - feints, power attacks and similar things (in D&D lingo).
Magic was relatively low-powered. No high damage spells like a fireball, few boosters. OTOH, resisting magic was hard to impossible, so that was balanced. What put me off magic was that some spells that sounded either like "fantasy latin" or nursery rhymes - or an odd mixture of both. Later on, they added spells with "normal" names, but I did not play a mage due to this.
Skills had a unique system. You had starting skills according to class and/or area of origin, and added a number of skill ponits each level. Skills could be any number from -10 and +18. To each skill three attributes were assigned, and you had to roll below each attribute on a d20 to succeed. You could use your skill points to adjust failed rolls, and had negative skill points heightening the difficulty, as these points had to be used up in rolling. This might be different in the current edition. (Quote: Q: Is this a game of chance ? - A: Not the way I play it...)
The old main continent, Aventurien, was very well defined - too much so for some tastes, but OTOH, this might be one cause for its popularity. There have been other continents added meanwhile, but I´m not current regarding that. Aventurien was rather small and still contained several kingdoms and other areas, so this probably gave people a more "european" feel to it - maybe.
The countries ranged from early medieval (e.g. vikings) to late medieval/renaissance cultures, depending on the part of the continent. The vikings, called Thorwaler, are responsible for one of my best-liked quotes: "If you can still lie on the floor without having to grip anything (add: to avoid falling down) , you are not drunk. :-)"
Some cultural standards had direct reflections in the rules. Warriors, which are really knights with another name, had to graduate from a warrior school, which gave them a "licence" which gives them the right to wear plate armor and use two-handed weapons - not that some not-so-honorable fighters would care much...
Wizards also graduated (most of them, at least) from magic schools. These schools determined the starting spells and had a general direction of magic (conjuration, divination and lots more) and also a color - white, gray or black - which described the kind of magic learned there. I think black schools were not known to the public...
Religion: in most of the area, there was a pantheon of 12 gods honored - A sun god, a warrior goddess, a goddess of home and hearth, a god of smiths, a goddess of magic and so on. Rather classical themes overall. Priests have generally a high standing and are respected by the populace. Any character could (in theory) become a priest later in his career, and some were priests from the outset. Think of priests like Prestige classes in D&D, and you get close.
In one desert area, there was a monotheistic religion - it was a fantasy rendition of islam in all but name.
So, that should suffice for a start. If you have questions, feel free to fire away - but I don´t know if I can answer them all.
Stefan
Just found the website:
http://www.thedarkeyerpg.com/
Also, look at wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dark_Eye
Stefan
That was a really detailed answer, Stefan. I always wondered about that game myself, being a former German. Thanks for the links as well.
Stefan
I should add that my knowledge about rules details is from the 3rd edition. The current game is in its 4th edition. AFAIK, the character generating process is rather complicated in 4e.
I remember once generating a higher-level character (10th level or something like that), and even back in 3e, it was a nightmare taking hours - the complex skill system making it quite involved.
Stefan
I recall a game series called Realms of Arkania that I suspect was based on Das Schwarze Auge. Unlike D&D, ability scores rose with experience. In addition to the usual ability scores you had negative attributes such as avarice, cowardice and the like, which could decrease as you gained experience. I think cowardice would have a chance that you would run from battle if it was high.
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I recall a game series called Realms of Arkania that I suspect was based on Das Schwarze Auge. (...)
Your assumption is correct.
The german version of these games was called "Das Schwarze Auge: ...". The english version was rechristianed due to the lack of popularity of "The Dark Eye"/ "Das Schwarze Auge" in english speaking countries.Of course this has been quite some years ago... I think I read about plans to publish a new DSA computer game - not sure about that, though.
About the relative popularity of D&D and DSA in Germany:
I went to a rpg convention two years ago. There were a few Battletech games, some Shadowrun, two D&D starter tables by RPGA Germany, and there were dozens over dozens of DSA tables all around. Actually there were so many DSA groups that people played on the floor in the corridors (the convention was held in a school building).
My impressions might not be representative, but I was impressed. Until then I always just thought that DSA was a game for people too lazy to get into english rpg rules. ;-)
The latest edition of DSA seems to appeal to the elder (and more wealthy) role players, similar to D&D: A series of hard cover books contains regional information. For curiousity's sake I purchased an encyclopedia Aventuria - a real lexicon on the world of Aventuria.
Ok. Enough for now... unfortunately not many DSA fans would read these message boards. D&D fans here would rarely touch a DSA book and vice versa, probably a quasi-religious question. ;-)
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Hmm, I guess DSAs popularity around here is because it is the only widely known rpg around here. Okay, this might've changed within the last years, but for most of the 80s and early 90s DSA was a synonym for rpg. Translated systems like D&D were often poorly distributed and in no way supported in terms of promotion. I remember having to order my D&D books (the translated ones) from a SF bookstore in Munich back then. Nearly nobody knew about D&D back then. DSA, on the other hand, was everywhere. It was sold in nearly every book- or toy store, it had commercials on tv etc. . It was distributed very, very well and they released dozens of boxed sets and modules every year.
To me, DSA was always a lame version of D&D, like D&D with the brakes on. Compared to D&D, it was just boring to me.
As tefan mentioned, the fights lasted forever. When I walk around convention halls nowadays and I'm hearing these "Attack!Parried! Attack! Parried! Attack! Parried! Attack! Oh, you scored a hit! Two points damage! Attack! Parried...etc."-sequences, I always have to
roll my eyes...:)
No, that's just lame and fights between high level characters can take hours.
Nearly everything seemed boring compared to D&D. The most feared dragons in DSA were wyrmlings compared to the huge monsters of D&D and the magic wasn't flashy and impressive,more like cantrips, and each spell had silly rhymes you had to repeat when casting. And you had dozens of nearly useless skills like cooking and fishing etc. .
And in the first edition of DSA a black cardboard DM's mask was included. That was funny...
I saw one guy wearing one of these silly things on a convention about a year ago!
Well, all of these facts are from the first editions of the game and I'm sure they improved the rules in some way, otherwise it would've vanished, I guess.