Zenith-How to handle subduing him?


Shackled City Adventure Path


Okay, this is the frist time I have ever posted on these boards. I just have a quick question. My PCs are about to encounter Zenith and the whole idea is to bring him back alive, that being said I don't like to run really complicated combat encounters(Keep It Simple Stupid). My PCs always get confused with rules like subdual damage and it bogs down game play. So I was just thinking the group could just attack him like normal and when he drops below 0 hp he would go unconscious and the party healer could use her Wand of Cure Serious Wounds on him before he bleeds to death. Then it would be an easy matter to tie him up bring 'em back to Cauldron .Just like to hear peoples thought on this. Thank you.


The risk with that approach is that if a PC hits zenith while below 10 hp and makes with a lucky damage roll, Zennith will be beyond healing. A pretty embarrassing situation, to say the least.

Your players have a couple of options:
Subdual damage is one of them, and isn’t that hard: you take a -4 penalty to your attack roll and deal subdual damage instead of lethal damage with your weapon. Note that you can mix subdual damage with normal damage if you like. The party could deal subdual damage the first few rounds, and follow up with lethal damage. When Zennith hits the negative hp’s, he falls unconscious but doesn’t start dying.
Another option is grappling. Your PC’s can effectively pile onto Zennith and pin him in a round or two. This is the tactic my pc’s used
A final option is using entangle spells such as Evards black tentacles, Web or Entangle.


Chef's Slaad wrote:

The risk with that approach is that if a PC hits zenith while below 10 hp and makes with a lucky damage roll, Zennith will be beyond healing. A pretty embarrassing situation, to say the least.

Your players have a couple of options:
Subdual damage is one of them, and isn’t that hard: you take a -4 penalty to your attack roll and deal subdual damage instead of lethal damage with your weapon. Note that you can mix subdual damage with normal damage if you like. The party could deal subdual damage the first few rounds, and follow up with lethal damage. When Zennith hits the negative hp’s, he falls unconscious but doesn’t start dying.
Another option is grappling. Your PC’s can effectively pile onto Zennith and pin him in a round or two. This is the tactic my pc’s used
A final option is using entangle spells such as Evards black tentacles, Web or Entangle.

Hmmm.... those are pretty good ideas. Well I don't really have a primary arcane spell caster just a artificer, but he dosen't really use scrolls or or make spell stroing items that cast battlefield management/utility spells. On the other hand we do have a few melee specialist. If they get trouble I'll drop hints for them to attempt to disarm him and then the party could jump 'em, pin down Zenith, gag and hogtie him. The whole encounter should be very interesting seeing as the dwarf crossbow specialist is Zenith yonger brother! Should be a riot watching that encounter unfold.

Thanks for the advice Chef!


Also if they do subdule damage, they would want to do more than the ammount of extra hitpoints zenith gets from his defensive stance (DS), because he has say 90 hitpoints, but used DS to take him to say 110 hitpoints, that party does 101 hitpoint of damage and say 9 subdule. When he comes out of his DS his hitpoints drop back to normal and that could kill him.

Yes the chances are slim :) Sounds like the party could do with a monk like dude..otherwise -4 to attacks and all in grapple and pinning should do the trick.

Cheers
Z

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