In a new campaign there is a players who is a bit of a power gamer who has chosen a warblade. He often states "that class is too weak" etc. On the surface the warblade looks superior to the fighter, but with all classes there should be strengths and weaknesses. What are the weaknesses of the warblade?
So would you say that it is a very powerful class? Especially in a high point buy campaign.
So would you say that it is a very powerful class? Especially in a high point buy campaign.
I wouldn't say its exceptionally powerful...
We've used crusaders and swordsages in our campaign so far, and assuming you are also allowing feats from PHB II and the Complete Series, I could build a fighter that could take on an equivalent level warblade in a fair fight.
Even in a high point campaing, I don't think it would be exceptionally powerful, as they want INT as a high stat, as well as the usual STR, DEX and CON... and CHA isn't exactly going to be a dump stat either for someone who is intent on fame and glory...
The other thing to consider, is that a Warblade is kinda like a druid... they probably want to go Warblade 1-20 instead of branching off into a PRC, so basically what you see is what you get, no funky PRC abilities. (Unless its a PRC from Tome of Battle anyways)
So would you say that it is a very powerful class? Especially in a high point buy campaign.I wouldn't say its exceptionally powerful...
We've used crusaders and swordsages in our campaign so far, and assuming you are also allowing feats from PHB II and the Complete Series, I could build a fighter that could take on an equivalent level warblade in a fair fight.
Even in a high point campaing, I don't think it would be exceptionally powerful, as they want INT as a high stat, as well as the usual STR, DEX and CON... and CHA isn't exactly going to be a dump stat either for someone who is intent on fame and glory...
The other thing to consider, is that a Warblade is kinda like a druid... they probably want to go Warblade 1-20 instead of branching off into a PRC, so basically what you see is what you get, no funky PRC abilities. (Unless its a PRC from Tome of Battle anyways)
I am glad that you have played these classes. Would a warblade overshadow a fighter if a group is not using PH II? Some of the maneuvers and stances seem quite potent on the surface. Elder mountain hammer a 5th level deals +6d6 and overcomes DR and hardness. The Feral Death Blow a 9th level can instantly kill, has a DC based on strength(which can be more easily enhanced by spells or race than mental abilities) even if the opponent saves they take 20d6 extra damage. Quickly looking at this I don't know how a fighter with a few extra feats could compare. I am not arguing against the warblade. Just looking for game balance.
In theory, every class should be as balanced as any other class. If you're worried about game balance, let the player use the class as is and see what happens over the next few adventures, then get everyone's comments. If the character is ruining everyone else's fun then maybe he should change character, and let the character go out in a blaze of glory; if the character isn't overshadowing the group, let him continue! Ie, without knowing your group, give the class a chance.
I have a house rule, that players cannot use splat books until the errata comes out. In this case I am not the DM. The DM is playing a personal/NPC who is the warblade. I intoduced the idea of playing ourselves in DnD a very long ago(as you will see from the next comment) in a similar vein to the Dungeons and Dragons cartoon. While I have gone away from this method, it has caught on with the other DMs. In a sense I have to play the rules lawyer of the group because the DM is willing to bend things so his "character" shines. In the last adventure he was casting multiple quickened spells in one round, spells beyond his level, and making house rules for the NPCs during an adventure, etc. Thus far, his ability scores are in all of the desirable places even though he had the players not move them from where rolled. He only has two stats in the +1 range, so the odds would be about 1 in 30 of having that happen. A possibility, but we are 7th level and one his sheet his hp bonus for con is +7 but his con is a 16(I saw this accidentally before I asked him to turn his laptop screen). So I have reason to be concerned.
The one player only uses core classes. So the group being outshined by the NPC can result in a campaign that is not fun. I would prefer to keep the campaign going, while the DM is a bit raw, the players cooperate instead of bickering like in the other two campaigns. It seems and I cannot be certain; that the DM is living out his PC fantasies in his NPCs.
I have a house rule, that players cannot use splat books until the errata comes out.
How do players cope with that when errata doesn't get released until years later after the book is published? Heck, there's still a bunch of books that still need errata and still have not received one, even the ones that really really need it (e.g. Spell Compendium).
I have a house rule, that players cannot use splat books until the errata comes out.How do players cope with that when errata doesn't get released until years later after the book is published? Heck, there's still a bunch of books that still need errata and still have not received one, even the ones that really really need it (e.g. Spell Compendium).
At one time I would agree but lately the errata have been coming out within a few months. As for SC, that is in essence an errata since it updates spells from many sources although I have my thoughts on some spells within it I don't expect any changes soon. It is much better than the spells from the various sources.
It is much easier to make an exception to the rule than to sift through tons of books. But do you really need to play a duskblade instead of an eldritch knight? Or a swashbuckler over a duelist? Will it ruin the flavor of the character? Besides I am very flexible after the fact with any character changes.
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The DM is playing a personal/NPC who is the warblade. I intoduced the idea of playing ourselves in DnD a very long ago(as you will see from the next comment) in a similar vein to the Dungeons and Dragons cartoon. While I have gone away from this method, it has caught on with the other DMs. In a sense I have to play the rules lawyer of the group because the DM is willing to bend things so his "character" shines. In the last adventure he was casting multiple quickened spells in one round, spells beyond his level, and making house rules for the NPCs during an adventure, etc. Thus far, his ability scores are in all of the desirable places even though he had the players not move them from where rolled. He only has two stats in the +1 range, so the odds would be about 1 in 30 of having that happen. A possibility, but we are 7th level and one his sheet his hp bonus for con is +7 but his con is a 16(I saw this accidentally before I asked him to turn his laptop screen). So I have reason to be concerned.
It sounds like the problem, then, is not the Warblade class, but the DMPC (I hate that term, but I'm using it anyway). It sounds like your DM does not have the maturity to run a character and DM at the same time without making his character outshine the others. I suspect you would have the same problem regardless of the character's class.
The one player only uses core classes. So the group being outshined by the NPC can result in a campaign that is not fun.
A well played Druid, Cleric, Wizard, or really just about any core class can do just as well as a Warblade or most other new classes. It sounds like the issue is your DM, not the class.
The Warblade, Crusader and Swordsage all balance against each other, and are all melee-combat oriented. The Fighter gets gobs and gobs of feats. These characters get once-per-encounter goodies (maneuvers), a slight constant benefit (stances) and so on. Yes, it is not a class to branch off into a prestige class from, you'll lose too much if you do.
I personally find the Warblade an appealing class to play when the opportunity presents itself. As far as the " party role " of Those-Who-Hack-Critters (Fighters) is concerned, the classes in this book are the first ones I've found worthwhile in a generally-playable nature besides the Fighter. No spells to worry about, no horse or restrictive code of honor, no exhaustion from rage ... you just prep your maneuvers, select a stance, ready a weapon and unload the buttwhoopage. The advantages from the high INT is appealing in conjunction with the extra languages the character will know and those critical skill points with which you are less likely to become critter chow. A nice, self-contained class. You can even go the Vow of Poverty route, as the only thing you really need is a weapon to whomp with - not even that if you go with unarmed strike. (NOT recommended, but still doable.)
In a gestalt campaign I'd tack Warblade onto any other class I cared to play around with and have a thoroughly good time.