So a player wishes to play a ‘Beastmaster’ sort of class; a class that excels in fighting melee combats, (has a mullet) gets along ok in the wilderness and can talk to animals. Most importantly this ‘none existent as of yet’ class has to have a companion creature that acts as his loyal friend, ally and protector from 1st level!
Ideally he would like to be a ‘tank’ for our STAP group with a capable beast by his side, Darfelon (sp?) and dolphin. I (DM) would roll all the dolphins attacks etc
(I said “how about just going for Druid?” He laughed: “Defiantly not going anywhere near the druid class because the druid has magic and worships a deity and everyone knows magic is garbage for elves, senile old grey hairs and girls.”)
“Hrumph!”
I was thinking of just letting him go Scout or Ranger (maybe even Barbarian or Fighter as this is what he really wants) letting him have the animal companion and wild empathy instead of other class abilities?
I even suggested the Wild Cohort feat (an official feat allowing any class to get an animal but only half as powerful as the druids) but he said it wasn’t good enough, he wants a proper animal companion of strength equal to a druids that wont drop dead at the first wave of a goblins sword. The words ‘He-man’ and ‘Battlecat’ were used with great emphasis…
Does anyone have any idea how I good balance this? I want to allow him to play the character he imagines but don’t know how to go about it.
How much is the druids Animal Companion class feature (from 1st level) actually worth to a Fighter?
How about I allow it but take away some of the Fighters feats or lower the fighters hit die and BAB slighty?
Help!
The player is more than willing to sacrifice something for the animal companion and even went as far as suggesting buying it off with experience points like an LA….
He even offered to buy me any new D&D book I wanted as a bribe! :D
In my experience, animal companions don't have much staying power or offensive power. Maybe that's just because the players who had them didn't know the right spells to augment their pets but still...
Just a guestimate but I'd say reducing a fighter's bonus feats to one every four levels is fair exchange for animal empathy and an animal companion at first level. Since this character is nature based, probably take away heavy armor proficiency for flavor reasons.
Oh and definately take the bribe, even if you'd do this for him anyway!
Take the bribe.
I don't know that I'd take away half the fighter's feats, but...
I think TS has a good suggestion. Give the fighter a feat at 1st level, then every four levels (4,8,12,16,20) for a total of six feats, and open them up a little to fighter bonus feats and any feats enhancing or requiring an animal companion.
Make sure to give them Handle Animal as a class skill if the fighter doesn't already have it. Give the guy wild empathy, and I'd also toss in speak with animals as a spell like ability - limited uses early on (1/day) then working up to 3/day, and ultimately unlimited, but I'd start it out at say... fifth level.
I'd be tempted call it a variation of the leadership feat. Have him take an "Animal Leadership" feat that works like the normal leadership feat, but is restricted to animals and magical beasts, never provides multiple followers, and lacks the 6th level restriction.
If he wants Wild Empathy, that should cost him either a feat-- or, better, allow him to take 3.0's Animal Empathy (CHA; TRAINED ONLY; DRUID, RANGER ONLY)-- have him trade a skill from the normal fighter list to take Animal Empathy. Remind him that it'll take a good Handle Animal check to train his animals up right...
I was thinking of just letting him go Scout or Ranger (maybe even Barbarian or Fighter as this is what he really wants) letting him have the animal companion and wild empathy instead of other class abilities?
I'd offer to let him go Ranger, and substitute his favored enemy bonuses and spellcasting progression for the druid's animal companion feature. While those abilities aren't worth a whole lot, he's really only getting a slight improvement on the animal companion he'd get as a ranger, anyway. I wouldn't give him any special ability to talk to animals (the "link" he has with his animal companion should be enough), unless he eventually goes for some prestige class that grants it.
If he'd rather be a barbarian than a ranger, I'd allow him to give up his rage ability for the druid's animal companion.
Here's a feat he can take, if you like:
Beastkin (General)
You have a close bond with nature, and animals in specific. Due to this bond, you gain the benefit of an animal companion, but have a harder time interacting with "civilized" society.
Benefit: You gain the Animal Companion and Wild Empathy abilities of a Druid, and 4 effective Druid levels for the purpose of these abilities. If you already have the Animal Companion and/or Wild Empathy abilities from another source, the effective levels stack, up to a maximum of your hit dice. You gain Handle Animal as a class skill permanently.
Special: When interacting with civilized NPCs, the DC to influence attitudes with the Diplomacy skill is increased by 5. You take a -2 penalty on Bluff, Disguise, Gather Information, and Sense Motive checks when interacting with civilized NPCs.
You can take this feat multiple times. Each time you do, your effective Druid level for the Animal Companion and Wild Empathy abilities increases by 4, to a maximum of your hit dice.
I got the drawbacks for this feat from the Waking Lands Savage Template.
TK
Make it a ranger, just take his spells, maybe one of the higher level abilities that wouldn;t make sense if you have a big ass tigre standing next to you (Hide in plain sight?)
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I'd offer to let him go Ranger, and substitute his favored enemy bonuses and spellcasting progression for the druid's animal companion feature. While those abilities aren't worth a whole lot, he's really only getting a slight improvement on the animal companion he'd get as a ranger, anyway. I wouldn't give him any special ability to talk to animals (the "link" he has with his animal companion should be enough), unless he eventually goes for some prestige class that grants it.
If he'd rather be a barbarian than a ranger, I'd allow him to give up his rage ability for the druid's animal companion.
I agree that I would use ranger rather than fighter as the base build. You would have to tweak the fighter's skills a lot to get a beastmaster type feel (adding the various nature related skills for example). I would probably take away the rangers weapon feats rather than spellcasting and favored enemy. Their spellcasting has a lot of synergy with the animal companion.
For a barbarian build, I think rage is so much better than animal companion that it's not a fair trade. I'd probably drop fast movement and the trap abilities instead.
Ultimately, the animal companion ability isn't really that great, so I don't think you need to take away that much to compensate. In the UA variant classes, a wizard can trade its familiar for an animal companion (albeit, at half wizard/sorcerer levels). The familiar is not an amazing ability, and certainly a lot weaker than barbarian rage, half the fighter's feats, or the ranger's spellcasting and favored enemy.
Edit: It looks like UA has a druid variant that loses the animal companion for basic rage (does not improve like barbarian rage) and fast movement. This suggests that the full barbarian rage ability is probably worth the same as an animal companion, but considering the greater synergy inherent in a raging druid, I'd still have the barbarian lose a different ability (or maybe have him lose the improved rage abilities).
Edit2: UA also has a bard variant that trades Bardic knowledge, inspire courage, inspire competence, inspire greatness, inspire heroics for Animal companion (as druid), nature sense (as druid), resist nature's lure (as druid), wild empathy (as druid). That's another baseline for comparison.
I would probably take away the rangers weapon feats rather than spellcasting and favored enemy. Their spellcasting has a lot of synergy with the animal companion.
That was my first instinct, too, but the OP mentioned that the player in question has a distaste for spellcasting, so I think it would better match the flavor of what he's shooting for to give up the spellcasting.
And FWIW, I don't think having a druid-power animal companion is as lame as some people think. As with many things in D&D, it's a question of whether you (know how to) use it effectively.
To be honest I think you should tell him to play as a druid, worshiping Mielikki (hope I spelled her name right). Druids can become some pretty wicked melee fighters if built right. Most people dont see the use in a 1st lvl animal companion but wolves have a cool feat called Improved Trip that can be a real thorn in your enemies rear. I would advise him to take an owl or eagle as a 1st lvl animal companion. He can easily have it fly behind an enemy, staying above melee range but still affectively flanking the enemy.
With him worshiping Meilikki his druid vows are not as strict and he is able to use the same armor as a ranger (mithril armor and the such). But even without a druid in Ironwood full plate with a ironwood heavy shield and a scimitar in hand makes for a pretty good tank.
I personally disagree with the new changes to wild shape that the web errata brought, but luckily I own the "Quintessential Druid" Books I and II. My DM allows me to use the wild shape progression in there. It goes like this:
- regains hitpoints as a full days rest
- If the new form can use the equipment it changes to suit the form
- retains original Int,Wis,Cha,level,class,alignment,BAB, and BAS.
- acquires Str, Dex, Con of new form
- At 5th level druid gains creature's extraordinay abilities
- At 9th level druid gains creature's supernatural abilities
- At 13th level druid gains creature's spell-like abilities
This progression in addition to new feats and types of wildshape (partial and combination transformations) open a whole new aspect to the druid class.
Druids are all about versatility, they can fill the role of primary fighter, healer, or spellcaster. Its up to you what you allow but even without using the alternate methods he can make a pretty awesome druid. They dont all have to be the "tree huggers" people think they are. My character worships the darkside of nature, following the belief that only the strongest survive. A druid is a survivalist, using his knowledge, environment, skills and abilities to defeat his enemies. In nature there is no honor or fair play, its survival of the fittest. If he's looking for some insight and ideas/strategies, he can drop me a line :).
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Vegipygmy - Good point re: spellcasting and the OP. I overlooked that.
Out of curiousity, what do you recommend as a build to take advantage of the animal companion. I always find the low AC of animal companions and their relatively low BAB to prevent them from being truly effective in melee. Is there a particular animal that doesn't suffer from this or a particular strategy to compensate?
To be honest I think you should tell him to play as a druid, worshiping Mielikki (hope I spelled her name right). Druids can become some pretty wicked melee fighters if built right. Most people dont see the use in a 1st lvl animal companion but wolves have a cool feat called Improved Trip that can be a real thorn in your enemies rear. I would advise him to take an owl or eagle as a 1st lvl animal companion. He can easily have it fly behind an enemy, staying above melee range but still affectively flanking the enemy.
The flanking trick only works with eagles. Owls are tiny and don't threaten the squares around them.
Vegipygmy - Good point re: spellcasting and the OP. I overlooked that.
Out of curiousity, what do you recommend as a build to take advantage of the animal companion. I always find the low AC of animal companions and their relatively low BAB to prevent them from being truly effective in melee. Is there a particular animal that doesn't suffer from this or a particular strategy to compensate?
I will post a druid guide here in a few that will give you a good foundation to build one off of. Druids can be just as good (if not better) than fighters or barbarians in melee combat. I had a lvl 13 druid do over 100d6 of damage in a round. It sounds crazy but easily done within the normal D&D game mechanics.
I have to say that the animal companion has more than proven its worth in my experience. The benefit of having another member on the team, even an animal companion, is great. It is one more creature to divide enemy attacks up, one more pool of hit points in the party, one more flanking partner, one more source of low to moderate damage. And, when you get into things like dire wolves, or god forbid going all out and getting a T-Rex for a companion (this can present size problems in dungeons, though), the companion is anything but useless. At least, again, in my experience. Even the wolf's basic trip ability is extremely useful.
I was mainly reading this because of my questions concerning the alternate wild shape in the PHB II, which I posted on the thread "PHII Alternate Druid Ability", but it now seems the questions are different enough that the solution for one doesn't work as the solution for the other.
Call me crazy, but I thought we called Fighters that got along OK in the wilderness and had animal companions Rangers.
Don't hit me! *ducks*
I'd have him take the ranger class, and take a feat called Improved Companion or something that improves his companion to druid-like abilities.
No no, what he needs to do is go Ranger/Druid. His Wild Empathy will stack, his animal companion levels will stack, he'll have the Fighter BAB, proficiency in simple and melee weapons, decent hit points, good saves all-around, possess a lot of skill points and wilderness abilities, gain access to druid and ranger spells that will enhance his abilities even further. He definitely needs to max out Knowledge (nature), Survival and Handle Animal. He can use Handle Animal to rear animals/magical beasts to follow him and perform combat tricks. Handle Animal will also help with Wild Empathy.
While he's at it he needs to take the feat "Natural Bond" from Complete Adventurer (increases animal companion level by 3 for purposes of special abilities). There's a number of other feats wise for him to take such as "Druidic Theurgy", which allows spells that appear both on the Druid and Ranger spell list to be cast at a caster level equal to the sum of both classes. "Mystic Companion's" another feat he could take which increases Ranger caster level by 4 when animal companion is within line of sight.
Yeah, definitely Ranger/Druid is the way to go with the whole "Beastmaster" route...and there's also the prestige class "Beastmaster" in Complete Adventurer, too.
No no, what he needs to do is go Ranger/Druid. His Wild Empathy will stack, his animal companion levels will stack, he'll have the Fighter BAB, proficiency in simple and melee weapons, decent hit points, good saves all-around, possess a lot of skill points and wilderness abilities, gain access to druid and ranger spells that will enhance his abilities even further. He definitely needs to max out Knowledge (nature), Survival and Handle Animal. He can use Handle Animal to rear animals/magical beasts to follow him and perform combat tricks. Handle Animal will also help with Wild Empathy.
While he's at it he needs to take the feat "Natural Bond" from Complete Adventurer (increases animal companion level by 3 for purposes of special abilities). There's a number of other feats wise for him to take such as "Druidic Theurgy", which allows spells that appear both on the Druid and Ranger spell list to be cast at a caster level equal to the sum of both classes. "Mystic Companion's" another feat he could take which increases Ranger caster level by 4 when animal companion is within line of sight.
Yeah, definitely Ranger/Druid is the way to go with the whole "Beastmaster" route...and there's also the prestige class "Beastmaster" in Complete Adventurer, too.
To combine the druid with a ranger would be a waste of levels IMHO. Your gains would be slow in either class as far as abilities go, rangers get their spells later in the game and as a druid your spells are far more powerful and effective. As far as animal companion levels stacking it would be less of an advantage because a ranger's cap is 1/2 his level where as a druid's is x2 his level. a lvl 4 druid would have an AC cap of 8, where a druid 2/ranger 2 would have an AC cap of 5.
Want to have the BAB of a fighter, cast Bear's Frenzy (Quintessential Druid), it gives you the BAB of a barbarian equal to your level and sends you into a rage. There isnt an enhancement spell that you would gain from the ranger class that you couldnt top on your druid lists.
Once you get the ability the wild shape large you can turn into a dire ape,bear or tiger and leap into battle and tear it up. Worried about losing that precious AC when you transform. Take the Equipment Master feat which allows you to choose which gear remains on your person and what gets melded, anything remaining shapes itself to your new form.
And the new Dragon issue that came out opens the door even more for druids with the paraelemental templates. You can add that template to any animal or magical beast to make an elemental version and a druid can wildshape into it as long as its an elemental in a size category he can shape.
Bottom line no one does animal companions like a druid. A druid can fill a fighter's shoes but the other can't do the opposite. If your PC really wants to play a nature tank beastmaster have him roll a druid take the "Improved Animal Companion Feat" which adds +4 to his animal companion cap at lvl 1, and tell him to invest into some Ironwood fullplate as soon as possible. with that +4 to his companion cap at lvl 1 he will be able to have a 6HD companion, thats a tiger right off the start!!! Also if your druid worships Meilikki from Forgotten Realms, she allows her druids to wear and use the same weapons and equipment as a ranger!