So I'm advancing a Gelugon to 18 (or maybe 20) HD. I'm mostly done, but I notice that the spell-like abilities are set at 13th lv caster. Is this because the Gelugon is CR13? It originally has 14HD....I'm not sure of the formula for determining caster level but my best guess is CR because thats the only other 13 I can find in the description.
But then the Imp is the next devil in the MM, and it is a CR2 with caster lv 6. So I don't know...
Don't really know the answer to this one but is my guess that the caster level won't increase by added HD, although you could use a feat gained from the extra HD (eg practiced spellcaster) to increase the caster level by 4.
Just checked the rules, they are not very clear but I see no reason that your advanced demon cannot have a caster level equal to HD.
I don´t think that there is a fixed rule for determining this. The only thing is in the explanation of monster´s abilities in the back of MM, where it states that if no caster level is given, than the monsters caster level equals it HD.
So, some monsters vary from this default, which could be interpreted to show that the monster has either a greater or lesser talent with its spell-like abilities than what is to be expected normally.
For advancing such monsters, I would keep the original difference between HD and CL intact, that should work out fine.
Stefan
When a set caster level is stated, is a purely game-balance issue, I believe. There is no formula. It's simply arbitrary. If the designers want the creature to use spell-like ability X at a more powerful level, they set the caster level higher. The ironic downside is that it is then fixed and doesn't increase with HD, so advancing the creature actually makes the ability weaker, though the original caster level was set to make it higher.
A low caster level is rare, but if the creature is only supposed to present Y amount of threat, then it needs to only be caster level Z to do so, and so the game designers make it so.
If the caster level isn't stated, then it is equal to the creature's HD and would increase with that value.
Your gelugon not only has a stated caster level, but it is lower than it's normal HD, giving clear proof that the caster level will not avance with the HD. However, the aforementioned Practiced Spellcaster feat (found in the Complete Arcane, I believe, and with an identical version for divine casters in the Complete Divine) would work perfectly.
Actually, you continue to advance in Caster Level as you increase in Hit Dice, though the top off for most non-epic level monsters is 20th-level. The designers use these rules when advancing monsters in the MMs. For instance, the advanced nighttwist in MMIII (which also appears in the Library of Last Resort) has a CL of 20th while the non-advanced version (which is 10 Hit Dice less) has a CL of 10th.
Sorry to show you the error of your ways Saern ;)
No, that's perfectly all right. :) However, Dungeon did not advance the tree monster. They used the "ancient" version from the MM3, which doesn't necessarily mean that the caster level continues to advance with HD, but rather, the older version of the plant has its caster level set higher. It's not conclusive. On the other hand, Hezzrack the imp from Unfamiliar Ground in Dungeon #119 has two levels of wizard and the CL for his spell-like abilities are still 6, just like a normal imp. Unfortunately, since those are class levels and not "racial" levels, it's not a definite answer, either, as there could be some hidden/obscure/unstated clause about a difference in racial and class HD and CL advancement. Seems we've stumbled on a bit of a quandry here.
Check out the nycaloth commander in MMIII. It advanced by Hit Dice, and its caster level did not increase.
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Personal opinion here...
Modify the creature as you see fit and adjust the CR as is appropriate. As can be seen from the above posts, it doesn't look like there is a whole lot of reference or rules to go by.
Also, caster level doesn't have as much effect on spells as you might think. It is important if someone is trying to dispel the effect, for duration, range, and sometimes amount of damage. Duration and range don't come into effect very often during game play and damage potential usually has some kind of cap. Look at the spells in question, determine if it will make any difference in game play, and determine what the creature in question should have as a caster level.
Personally, if it is <the guy in charge> or something like that, I would advance it by hit die. If it was some mook, I would leave it as the base caster level even if they had advanced in hit die.
For what it's worth.
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On a related note, many of the Spawn of Tiamat of MMIV have energy weapons which are noted to increase at a rate fixed by HD increase, i.e. +1d6 damage / 2 HD, but this does not directly alter the CR increase. That is, they still gain +1 CR per 3 HD, and their energy attacks become better.
My point is that there is a small precedent for increasing CL, as others have noted, without the use of feats. I guess one simply must be cautious and make sure the CL increase doesn't too strongly alter the creature's growing CR.
Creative Director
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Spell-like ability caster level does not increase with Hit Die increases unless the monster's description makes that clear (such as the half-fiend). Personally, I think that they should have just set a blanket rule that caster level for spell-like abilities should always equal the creature's Hit Dice, but that ship has pretty much sailed.
There are, of course, ways to increase a monster's caster level via feats and the like, and it's good to see in cases like the night twist they've allowed for flexibility in the rules.