Just a quick question in reference to Dragon mag #338, December 2005, page 59. The article was written by Ben Vandgrift. This is a multi-page article on exchanging one's familiar for a staff. On the aforementioned page there is a paragraph headed with the bold words "Deliver Touch Spells (Su)."
In that short paragraph one thing is left unspoken. Can a wizard BOTH cast the touch spell in question and attack in the same round? Meaning, is it two simultaneous actions that occur (an "attack" standard action and "casting" action)? Or must a wizard somehow "charge" the staff beforehand THEN in the next round attack with the staff (and thus popping off the touch attack).
Thanks!
This is not an official answer, but a touch spell can normally be cast and delivered in the same round--the one exception, I believe, to the rule forbidding characters from taking two standard actions in a round. So I'd say you can do both in the same round, as long as you haven't made a move action as well. It might take a bit more time to wind up for a damaging blow with a staff, though--so the ruling could go the other way.
Director of Games
|
Touch attacks made as part of a spell being cast are free and do not cost you anything beyond the time it takes to cast the spell. The staff, however, is different, attacking with a weapon is a standard action at the very least. I suppose you could cast a spell and discharge it with an AoO, but otherwise you would have to attack the round following the casting of the spell (unless it was swift, quickened, or immediate). Remember that touch spells can be held as a charge.
Jason Bulmahn
Managing Editor of Dragon
|
Director of Games
|
Touch attacks made as part of a spell being cast are free and do not cost you anything beyond the time it takes to cast the spell. The staff, however, is different, attacking with a weapon is a standard action at the very least. I suppose you could cast a spell and discharge it with an AoO, but otherwise you would have to attack the round following the casting of the spell (unless it was swift, quickened, or immediate). Remember that touch spells can be held as a charge.
Jason Bulmahn
Managing Editor of DragonThis is the position my DM took as well. However, going down this route essentially makes the Staff pointless. I could accomplish the same thing without the "Staff of the Magi." I could just attack in round one, then cast and touch spell in round two. Where's the benefit to having the staff in the first place?
To get the staff requires 1100 gp and the giving up of one's familiar. Assuming one can't cast a touch attack and deal melee in the same round, the staff grants nothing more than 1 cantrip a day (and 3 "light" cantrips). A rather pricey and useless trinket.
Is my logic wrong?
Hmm... looking at it again, I think I may have been wrong in my first post. The ability allows you to deliver touch spells using your staff. No where does it state that this is a sepetate attack action, so.. actually, I would probably go with that option. Making one attack with your staff charged with a touch spell is part of the casting of that spell.
Jason Bulmahn
Flip-flopping Managing Editor of Dragon
Touch attacks made as part of a spell being cast are free and do not cost you anything beyond the time it takes to cast the spell. The staff, however, is different, attacking with a weapon is a standard action at the very least. I suppose you could cast a spell and discharge it with an AoO, but otherwise you would have to attack the round following the casting of the spell (unless it was swift, quickened, or immediate). Remember that touch spells can be held as a charge.
Jason Bulmahn
Managing Editor of DragonThis is the position my DM took as well. However, going down this route essentially makes the Staff pointless. I could accomplish the same thing without the "Staff of the Magi." I could just attack in round one, then cast and touch spell in round two. Where's the benefit to having the staff in the first place?
To get the staff requires 1100 gp and the giving up of one's familiar. Assuming one can't cast a touch attack and deal melee in the same round, the staff grants nothing more than 1 cantrip a day (and 3 "light" cantrips). A rather pricey and useless trinket.
Is my logic wrong?
Well, at higher levels, it does count as a magical wepon with special abilities, not to mention to make it a staff according to the magic item creation rules. Which lends to the question, does it add on a hefty price to the creation of a staff, if it already a magic weapon?
Can't help with finding the original author or convincing stubborn DMs, but I've been playing mages (as PC and DMPC) in two campaigns using the rules as I interpret them above and haven't found them particularly unbalancing--I think the staff is a good tradeoff for the familiar, given that it's more expensive, can't scout, spy, or keep watch for you, and can't deliver your touch spells at range. Of course, the mages I've equipped in this way are typical weenie-armed wizards, and thus likely to whack someone with their staff only for theatrical or emergency purposes, so I've not tried to deliver both an attack and a spell with the staff at the same time.
|
I took this to mean that the wizard attacks with the staff (D6 damage, as per normal), and THEN the touch spell kicks in, delivering its charge as normal.
If the attack roll is high enough to beat full AC, then the weapon damage is dealt in addition to the spell. If the attack roll is only good enough to hit Touch AC, then only the spell is discharged. If the wizard fails to hit Touch AC, then neither is dealt.
This seems intuitive to me; I don't see what is confusing.
Don't forget, a wizard attempting a touch spell is considered 'armed', and does not draw attacks of opportunity. A spell is also considered 'magical' (as well as any other descriptor), and ignores DR.
Without the above interpretation, the staff ability is useless, except for touching icky, spiny creatures that otherwise deter grappling etc.
"Hey! I can now deliver touch attacks into an adjacent square! I used to only be able to deliver them into adjacent squares! Errrrrr......".
For those of you who think it's overpowering, stop thinking of it as a 'free touch spell with every melee attack', and think of it as a 'free melee attack with every touch spell'. And don't forget, this will only affect hostile spells. You're not going to bash your allies over the head while granting them resistance, are you?
This was the way our group used shocking grasp, from 1st Ed onwards, allowing a wizard to cast the spell through any weapon with a metal core. I don't know if that was official, but it made sense to us.
|
Our wizard also opted for the staff of the magi, and I think I am going to go with the above ruling that a wizard can "cast and deliver" a touch spell in the same round using the magic staff. I might be more confused than ever now, but I thought a wizard could deliver touch spells with any staff, but wouldn't be allowed to do so in just one round.
rules butcher
hojas
Hey, sorry for the delay in the response .. I haven't been checking back lately.
Delivering a touch attack with the staff works two ways, depending on the intention of the caster. It effectively extends the caster's reach, but also allows the spell to accompany an actual attack -- each follows the appropriate precedent as follows:
The staff may deliver a spell as though via touch in the same round the spell is cast -- the bond between the caster and the staff is close, it is effectively an extension of his body for that instant. In this case, the staff does not deal it's normal damage; the target isn't being hit, just touched. Touch attack rules apply.
Attacking to deal damage is still a standard action -- the staff stores the spell in the round it is cast, and it discharged upon the next successful attack. If you want to be extremely picky, the next attack that would've hit as a touch attack (neglecting any armor bonus) would deliver the spell, while the attacker would need to overcome the target's normal armor class to deliver the spell and the damage from the staff's attack. (I think that's a little complicated and would cause more questions than it answered in the article, but I like it and use it at home.)
The reasoning behind this? In order to get in a good swing or thrust with a staff a little preparation has to occur -- you have to aim for an unarmored spot, and deliver the blow with some force. A casual touch requires much less in the way of accuracy and force -- just enough contact for the caster's and target's auras to connect.
I hope this clears things up. Sorry if I was unclear in the article, though thanks for reading it. :)
--ben
ben vandgrift
somethingfamiliar@gmail.com