I've got what I think is a rather complex question. Well, two questions. One of my players has decided to play a Barbarian in my next game, and I've got two questions about Rage I would like someone to help me out on.
First is that I've noticed it says a Barbarian that is Raging "cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills... any abilities that require patience or concentration... or activate magic items that require a command word". So how limiting is this? Can he still communicate(after all, he can't even say a command word)? Could he tie off a rope and drop it down to his party at the base of a cliff(Use-Rope is a DEX based skill)? What about useing his bonus to STR to crank the wench to raise a drawbridge(I think it would require at least patience)?
My second question is this. Lets say the party makes it to 11th level. The Barbarian now has Greater Rage. The party gets into a running fight during which the Barbarian Rages, and when the fight ends the Barbarian is at 12hp. His Greater Rage is giving him 33hp. So if he stops raging he would drop to negative 21hp, right? So say he has three rounds of Rage left, but it will take the Cleric two rounds to reach him. Does he just stand there and froth at the mouth, or since there is nothing to attack, does he drop out of the Rage and die?
First is that I've noticed it says a Barbarian that is Raging "cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills... any abilities that require patience or concentration... or activate magic items that require a command word". So how limiting is this? Can he still communicate(after all, he can't even say a command word)? Could he tie off a rope and drop it down to his party at the base of a cliff(Use-Rope is a DEX based skill)? What about useing his bonus to STR to crank the wench to raise a drawbridge(I think it would require at least patience)?
My second question is this. Lets say the party makes it to 11th level. The Barbarian now has Greater Rage. The party gets into a running fight during which the Barbarian Rages, and when the fight ends the Barbarian is at 12hp. His Greater Rage is giving him 33hp. So if he stops raging he would drop to negative 21hp, right? So say he has three rounds of Rage left, but it will take the Cleric two rounds to reach him. Does he just stand there and froth at the mouth, or since there is nothing to attack, does he drop out of the Rage and die?
A barbarian in rage has a very limited list of options. He can communicate (in screams and yells) but could not use rope or crank a drawbridge.
I don't have my PHB in front of me but I believe that a barbarian's rage does not automatically end when combat ends. So your cleric would have one shot at healing the barb enough before he drops out of rage and dies.
I currently play a barbarian and I always picture Rage as making you very single-minded. Did you eneter a Rage to attack your enemies? Then that's pretty much all you focus on in the most direct way possible. Did you Rage to open a door? Well then you bash into it and if that doesn't work you start hacking at it. You have one focused goal that you try to complete in the most aggressive straight forward way.
I don't have the book infrount of me but I think you can willing come out of a Rage. If you choose not to then you go the full duration. So it would be in his best interest to stay in the Rage. Although I usually do what makes the most since character/roleplaying wise. Raging always carries the risk that you could die when its over.
my imperfect recollection is that the rage expires at the end of the encounter or when rounds run out. the 'end' of an encounter is kinda DM discretion. if a DM wanted to be a hardass he could declare the encounter over when the last villain collapses. Personally i'd be tempted to have the barbarian hack at the last corpse it killed (owing to residual anger and frustration that there is nothing left to kill) until either the rounds ran out or it receved healing from the cleric.
Now the main issue i can see is metagaming...
say your greater raging and you have these extra 33 hp plus say your real 5 hp (total 38) - to the cleric you might actually look good, compared to the mage who only has only 5 hp left. Who does the cleric heal first? the apparently raging and 'healthy' looking barbarian or the weak and very wounded mage? Without a status spell it might be a close call. Maybe you say that you always heal a raging barbarian first....
First is that I've noticed it says a Barbarian that is Raging "cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills... any abilities that require patience or concentration... or activate magic items that require a command word". So how limiting is this? Can he still communicate(after all, he can't even say a command word)? Could he tie off a rope and drop it down to his party at the base of a cliff(Use-Rope is a DEX based skill)? What about useing his bonus to STR to crank the wench to raise a drawbridge(I think it would require at least patience)?
Keep in mind the spirit of the rule;
Seriously, would you expect a raging barbarian to be willing to NOT fight, instead getting out "some little tinky-wink stick and talk to it while waving it at the bad guy"? C'mon, he wants to bash some skulls in!Operating a device or concentrating on ANYTHING would be too frustrating for a raging barbarian - if anything, it would increase his rage if he had to crank a drawbridge down to reach an enemy!
***I think anyone who has raised an angry toddler would agree with my assessment here...rage doesn't allow for reason or logical thought. That's why it's called RAGE.
IMHO, without the limitations/penalties, Rage would be an overpowered class ability; it's already overplayed, since some DMs don't track the limits as closely as the players track the gains...
My second question is this. Lets say the party makes it to 11th level. The Barbarian now has Greater Rage. The party gets into a running fight during which the Barbarian Rages, and when the fight ends the Barbarian is at 12hp. His Greater Rage is giving him 33hp. So if he stops raging he would drop to negative 21hp, right? So say he has three rounds of Rage left, but it will take the Cleric two rounds to reach him. Does he just stand there and froth at the mouth, or since there is nothing to attack, does he drop out of the Rage and die?
I think most DMs would agree that, since the BBn can end Rage early, he can also opt to rage all the way until the end of its duration, in the hopes of healing...or at the least, to say goodbye...
"G@!#!+M IT, THAT BUGGER GOT ME GOOD! I'M BLEEDING SOMETHIN FIERCE BUT I AIN'T GOT TIME TO BLEED! HEY, HOLY MAN - WANNA COME STUFF SOMETHIN IN THIS HOLE SO I CAN GO FINISH MY BREW? GIT OVER HERE BEFORE I DROP, SLACKER! G$~@&$M THAT WAS A GOOD FIGHT! YEAH!! ARRRRRH!!"
*thud*
Example: The Viking King from "The 13th Warrior" was probably in negative HPs by the end of the last fight; he didn't die until he sat down and his rage ended.
M
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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ignimbrite78 - I think you're thinking that a barbarian can rage once per encounter. The rage ends after a number of rounds equal to 3 + his Con modifier unless he chooses to end it sooner. From the SRD:
A barbarian can fly into a rage a certain number of times per day. In a rage, a barbarian temporarily gains a +4 bonus to Strength, a +4 bonus to Constitution, and a +2 morale bonus on Will saves, but he takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class. The increase in Constitution increases the barbarian’s hit points by 2 points per level, but these hit points go away at the end of the rage when his Constitution score drops back to normal. (These extra hit points are not lost first the way temporary hit points are.) While raging, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can he cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function. He can use any feat he has except Combat Expertise, item creation feats, and metamagic feats. A fit of rage lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + the character’s (newly improved) Constitution modifier. A barbarian may prematurely end his rage. At the end of the rage, the barbarian loses the rage modifiers and restrictions and becomes fatigued (-2 penalty to Strength, -2 penalty to Dexterity, can’t charge or run) for the duration of the current encounter (unless he is a 17th-level barbarian, at which point this limitation no longer applies).
A barbarian can fly into a rage only once per encounter. At 1st level he can use his rage ability once per day. At 4th level and every four levels thereafter, he can use it one additional time per day (to a maximum of six times per day at 20th level). Entering a rage takes no time itself, but a barbarian can do it only during his action, not in response to someone else’s action.
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First is that I've noticed it says a Barbarian that is Raging "cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills... any abilities that require patience or concentration... or activate magic items that require a command word". So how limiting is this? Can he still communicate(after all, he can't even say a command word)? Could he tie off a rope and drop it down to his party at the base of a cliff(Use-Rope is a DEX based skill)? What about useing his bonus to STR to crank the wench to raise a drawbridge(I think it would require at least patience)?
I would rule that he would be able to communicate but not say a command word. I think that we have all seen someone so angry that they would have had a really hard time focusing and thinking, but they could talk (yell?) to you. Operating a magic item in general should be a fairly tricky business. "What was that stupid command word for that device (and what does it do)? Was it 'fluffy bunny'? Was it 'Horatio Hornblower'? Awww, Screw it!" It's not that he can't talk, but would have a difficult time actually thinking about something. Could he tie a rope? No. Could he crank a wench? Probably not -- However, I would probably rule that he could grab the rope and pull people up. Turning a crank is basically operating a machine -- a simple one, but you still need to think about which way it goes, if there is a safety catch, etc. Grabbing a rope doesn't really require much thought.
My second question is this. Lets say the party makes it to 11th level. The Barbarian now has Greater Rage. The party gets into a running fight during which the Barbarian Rages, and when the fight ends the Barbarian is at 12hp. His Greater Rage is giving him 33hp. So if he stops raging he would drop to negative 21hp, right? So say he has three rounds of Rage left, but it will take the Cleric two rounds to reach him. Does he just stand there and froth at the mouth, or since there is nothing to attack, does he drop out of the Rage and die?
I love what Marc Chin said about this and this is really basically how we play it. So, yes, he could just stand there and foam at the mouth. But just because he is raging doesn't mean that he wouldn't seek out the cleric. Just because he is raging doesn't mean that he doesn't notice that most of his intestines are outside of his body.
As far as "who looks worse off" I really think that it has much more to do with percentages. I think that a wizard who (at full) has 15 hit points is down to 5 is compared to a barbarian who (at full) has 125 hit points is down to 10 -- the barbarian will look a whole lot worse. He has taken a whole lot more damage. I think that he would look a whole lot worse than the mage even if he still had 50 hit points left compared to the wizard's 5.
Just a couple of random thoughts.
Bill
So how limiting is this? Can he still communicate(after all, he can't even say a command word)?
Oh, he can say the command word; it just won't activate anything. What the authors are getting at here is that command word activation items require some small amount of concentration...which the barbarian is unable to provide.
So say he has three rounds of Rage left, but it will take the Cleric two rounds to reach him. Does he just stand there and froth at the mouth, or since there is nothing to attack, does he drop out of the Rage and die?
He can stand there and froth at the mouth. Only three things drop a barbarian out of his rage: (1) its duration runs out; (2) the barbarian voluntarily ends it prematurely; or (3) effects such as calm emotions that explicitly state they end or suppress barbarian rages.
Some people house-rule it that unconsciousness ends a rage. Those people like dead barbarians. :)
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Some people house-rule it that unconsciousness ends a rage. Those people like dead barbarians. :)
It is the easiest way to kill them...
Count me as someone who had been house-ruling that unconciousness ends, but I thought it was RAW. Of course, since I copied and pasted the rage description above, I can see that it's not (or at least it's not contained in the rage description itself). It seems logical that rage would end at unconciousness (hard to be angry when you are sleeping), which is probably why it gets played that way.
I suppose the argument could be made that the rage effect is as much physical as it is mental and that the body stays in the state of rage even upon unconciousness. This is pretty consistent with the fact that rage uses Con to determine how long it lasts.
Are you sure there's not a rule about unconciousness ending rage? It's so commonly accepted and widely adopted that I'm surprised it's not the RAW.