Only one extra curse? Why does extra rage (and what not) give you two but this feat only one? It doesnt seem fair.
That's a fairly valid point. Perhaps it's because Rage may only be used once per encounter, whereas the Hexblade's Curse may be used freely.
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I'm thinking it was simply an issue of game balance. Two extra curses must have seemed like it might be too powerful. I personally don't think so, so I would go ahead and houserule two extra uses of the curse ability with this feat.
But, I'm happy when I'm able to throw my players a bone, instead of nerfing things because they're too powerful.
I think Takamori probably has it. Being able to rage twice more per day doesn't make you more powerful in a single combat, it only lets you be equally powerful more often. Two curses, presumably, can be used one round after another in the same combat.
I asked the same question. And the author, in fact, believed he had made it 2 extra uses but the editors changed it to one.
And I highly doubt the belief that just because Hexblade can be used more than once per encounter made it so they get less uses with the feat. Smite Evil can be used more than once an encounter, and even Extra Smite receives 2 uses. To make it worse, it's 2 free smites of ANY smite ability at your leisure, should you have more than one type of smiting.
I think the Hexblade deserves more uses.
The reason why rage works once per encounter is because it lasts practically the whole battle, and affects every foe you face, as in you're going to have your +4 Str., +4 Con., -2 AC, +1 Will against them all (and then these numbers rise at higher levels).
Hexblade's curse uses are so minimal, and 1/3 of the Hexblade's abilities are based off the curse. It would make sense to give them more uses. Especially with their save DC being so low. A player of mine has a Hexblade who is 6th level and hasn't been able to pull off a successful curse yet on a foe cause the save DC is low. She could burn all her uses, but where would that leave her for the other 10 encounters? Actually she got peeved she got her 2nd use at 5th level and took Extra Curse for a 3rd use.
Personally, this still isn't enough because of the saving throw. They should've based this off of the Ninja, where a Hexblade receives as many uses of the curse per day equal to half their level + Charisma modifier.
Rage and Smites don't require saves to pass so they're good to go. Maybe a class ability for Hexblade where the enemy's saving throw against the curse drops by -1 per Charisma modifier, (and at a higher Hexblade level comes the greater version that doubles these penalties) would've been fine and then it wouldn't require such heavy usage.
I asked the same question. And the author, in fact, believed he had made it 2 extra uses but the editors changed it to one.
And I highly doubt the belief that just because Hexblade can be used more than once per encounter made it so they get less uses with the feat. Smite Evil can be used more than once an encounter, and even Extra Smite receives 2 uses. To make it worse, it's 2 free smites of ANY smite ability at your leisure, should you have more than one type of smiting.
I think the Hexblade deserves more uses.
The reason why rage works once per encounter is because it lasts practically the whole battle, and affects every foe you face, as in you're going to have your +4 Str., +4 Con., -2 AC, +1 Will against them all (and then these numbers rise at higher levels).
Hexblade's curse uses are so minimal, and 1/3 of the Hexblade's abilities are based off the curse. It would make sense to give them more uses. Especially with their save DC being so low. A player of mine has a Hexblade who is 6th level and hasn't been able to pull off a successful curse yet on a foe cause the save DC is low. She could burn all her uses, but where would that leave her for the other 10 encounters? Actually she got peeved she got her 2nd use at 5th level and took Extra Curse for a 3rd use.
Personally, this still isn't enough because of the saving throw. They should've based this off of the Ninja, where a Hexblade receives as many uses of the curse per day equal to half their level + Charisma modifier.
Rage and Smites don't require saves to pass so they're good to go. Maybe a class ability for Hexblade where the enemy's saving throw against the curse drops by -1 per Charisma modifier, (and at a higher Hexblade level comes the greater version that doubles these penalties) would've been fine and then it wouldn't require such heavy usage.
yea but it's used against only one person at a time. You cant curse someone twice at a time. What bothers me is what you've said about the player finding it usless.
Actually, I never stated she found it useless. I stated the uses weren't enough for an adventure.
She enjoys the Hexblade's Curse ability, but finds herself at a dilemma as to when would be the best time to use the ability and one which foe? (which leads me to hopefuly see a feat that allows you to curse multiple foes with one curse use) While she bides her time for the perfect moment, since she has such limited uses, she either ends up regretting waiting around to use it cause the adventure ended or uses it and the creature passes the save (I think the curse shouldn't allow a save, personally).
And she's had to deal with this for 4 levels straight. At 5th, she got her 2nd usage, but took Extra Curse as her Hexblade bonus feat. The feat should allow to grant you 2 extra uses, not one, that way she could pull it off 4 times a day instead of 3. Not to mention there are other Hex feats she would like to take, leading to more opportunities to use the curse but still with less curses per day (the Hex feats should've omitted Extra Curse and stated for each Hex Curse you take, you receive an additional use, or maybe for every two Hex feats you take you get an additional curse use).
Well, she's taking it 20, we'll be able to fully inform others whether or not the number of uses the class gets is balanced or underpowered eventually. We could be wrong.
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Personally, I love the Hexblade, and the curses are quite potent, but I suppose the best comparison for "Extra Curse" should be "Extra Smite Evil". Hexblades seem most comparable to the Paladin class, swapping immunity from fear, disease, special mounts and healing for Familiars, bonus feats to boost their spellcasting, Mettle, and Luck auras.
Certainly, the classes are not exactly comparable, but my general sense is that the supernaturally empowered Hexblade is better compared to the supernaturally empowered paladin, rather than the raging death machine that is a barbarian.
P.S: To my chagrin, Complete Warrior lists "Extra Smiting" as granting two extra uses as well..
This discussion has been made long ago, on the wizards boards, pre-dating the creation of the Extra Hex feat. I'm a mite unfamiliar with paizo's hyperlink system, so I'll post the address here in its uncompressed "glory"
http://boards1.wizards.com/archive/index.php/t-356805.html
At low levels, the Hexblade's Curse really isn't that great. Low uses, high chance of failure, etc. At higher levels, targets become more specific, and IF IT SUCCEEDS, the Big Bad Guy gets -6 to everything of relevance...including saves. Think about it. That can make a big difference. Of course, if they MAKE the save, you can't Hex them again so it doesn't really matter how many uses you have...maybe two is an OK edit after all. Either that or change it so you can curse them again even if they pass the save.
At low levels, the Hexblade's Curse really isn't that great. Low uses, high chance of failure, etc. At higher levels, targets become more specific, and IF IT SUCCEEDS, the Big Bad Guy gets -6 to everything of relevance...including saves. Think about it. That can make a big difference. Of course, if they MAKE the save, you can't Hex them again so it doesn't really matter how many uses you have...maybe two is an OK edit after all. Either that or change it so you can curse them again even if they pass the save.
I think that where this class shines is to be like a fighter(ablet no feats) while making saves weak, allowing for other characters to shine (like failing saving throws for spells).
I agree with you, but they also have a superb ability in Mettle, and some nasty spells like Cursed Blade and Hound of Doom.
I agree with you, but they also have a superb ability in Mettle, and some nasty spells like Cursed Blade and Hound of Doom.
I might be playing in a gestalt game. Any hexblade combos? I was thinking warlock/hexblade.
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Not long ago I started a hexblade. After I had created him we decided to go gestalt.
I think it was a pretty weak combination.
The Hexblade is a pretty "solid" class. It doesn't have any strong weaknesses that another class can make up for. For example, a wizard/fighter is a good gestalt combination because it gives a much better BAB and better hp to a standard wizard, allowing them to hit with spells more often, etc.
If you put the Hexblade with fighter, you get some nice bonus feats, but that isn't the same improvement it provides a wizard. I should point out that taking a class with a good fort save does make mettle better, but not quite the same bonus.
I haven't tried combining hexblade with any of the other optional classes, but a warlock could work, I suppose. They won't have the breadth of a more mixed gestalt, but with proper invocation selection, they could be quite powerful in those situations for which they've prepared.
Still, with gestalt, I think you're usually best adding a traditional base class. Cleric and rogue both make good secondary classes for any other standard class, and probably better than hexblade for most.
If you take a Hexblade past 3rd level, you'd be wise to take him to 19th level if possible, to maximize his curse. Though I don't quite know what would be worth a one-level dip...perhaps fighter, for +2 Fortitude and an extra feat? Ranger MIGHT be nice too, for +2 Fortitude and Reflex saves...it's like getting the feats Lightning Reflexes and Great Fortitude rolled into one; and no matter what anyone else will tell you, those are good feats, especially for characters who are lacking in their respective saves, which the Hexblade does.